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RE: HEALTH CARE - 8/8/2009 7:48:08 PM   
Brain


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The GOP Freak Show

Conservative radio talk-show host John Batchelor says the whack jobs disrupting health-care town halls confirm the Republican Party has become a cruise ship to the seventh grade.

The sad-eyed Townhall Turfers now follow the saucer-eyed Birthers and the cranky Tea-Baggers as the latest political fad that the weakling Republicans not only cannot get away from but also cannot get enough of, like chocolate sauce on anything. The phenomenon of surly, verbose, sweaty voters crowding into overlit public rooms to hear out the numbing conclusions of a member of Congress on health-care reforms in all the 57 varieties has taken over talk radio and talk TV and swept through blogs like swine flu’s mutation.

The suspicion of many gifted sleuths, working in favor of the Obama administration, that these are not grass roots citizens but rather hirelings and toadies, the astro-turf-eaters of Homo Pachydermata, stampeding to the whip hand of secret Blofelds of the GOP, has suddenly become a White House approved narrative endorsed by the colorful Robert Gibbs, who judged, “The Astro Turf nature of grassroots lobbying” are “manufactured anger.”

"The principal battleground in the campaign will be town hall meetings and other gatherings with members of Congress in their home districts," reads the memo. "We want your help to organize major union participation to counter the right-wing "Tea-Party Patriots" who will try to disrupt those meetings, as they've been trying to do to meetings for the last month. ...

(Remember the hooligans - many of them Republican Congressional staff - who harassed Florida vote counters in 2000? We can't let that happen again!)."

A showdown between unions and grassroots conservative organizations could make for an August full of fireworks, with even more dysfunctional town hall meetings. The AFL-CIO is planning to target 50 "high priority districts," in addition to organizing telephone town hall gatherings.

But while the union conglomerate seems poised to flex its political muscle on Obama's behalf, it may find some friction on the policy front. Detailed in Sweeney's memo are certain legislative priorities that are clearly at odds with what seems likely to be produced in the Senate Finance Committee's compromise bill.

Sweeney describes it as a "requirement that ALL employers 'pay or play,'" that the final bill have "a robust public health insurance plan to compete with private insurers and drive down health costs," and that the legislation contain "relief for company/union funds providing pre-Medicare retiree coverage, and no taxation of health benefits!"

The AFL-CIO also promises to "Redouble our efforts on Capitol Hill against taxation of benefits OF ANY KIND, for including ALL businesses in the requirement to provide coverage, and for a robust public health insurance plan option."

According to reports on Thursday, the Senate Finance Committee is considering compromise legislation that will contain no public option for insurance and would tax health-care benefits of the most generous plans.

UPDATE: AFL-CIO Secretary Treasurer Richard Trumka sends out a scathing statement about the town halls, hitting on Sweeney's themes and calling the events corporate funded.

Every American has the inalienable right to participate in our democratic process. Our politics is passionate, heartfelt and often loud -- as was the founding of our nation. But that is not what the corporate-funded mobs are engaging in when they show up to disrupt town halls held by members of Congress.

Major health care reform is closer than ever to passage and it is no secret that special interests want to weaken or block it. These mobs are not there to participate. As their own strategy memo states, they have been sent by their corporate and lobbyist bankrollers to disrupt, heckle and block meaningful debate.

This is a desperation move, meant to slow the momentum for change.
Mob rule is not democracy. People have a democratic right to express themselves and our elected leaders have a right to hear from their constituents -- not organized thugs whose sole purpose is to shut down the conversation and attempt to scare our leaders into inaction

We call on the insurance companies, the lobbyists and the Republican leaders who are cheering them on to halt these 'Brooks Brothers Riot' tactics. Health care is a crucial issue and everyone - on all sides of the issue - deserves to be heard.


http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2009-08-07/the-gop-freak-show/full/

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 781
RE: HEALTH CARE - 8/8/2009 8:33:04 PM   
Arpig


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What exactly surprises you about a political party mobilizing its core supporters to oppose a policy of the other side?

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(in reply to Brain)
Profile   Post #: 782
RE: HEALTH CARE - 8/8/2009 8:45:24 PM   
Brain


Posts: 3792
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Unions to Take On Conservatives at Health Care Town Halls

The nation's largest federation of labor organizations has promised to directly engage with boisterous conservative protesters at Democratic town halls during the August recess.

In a memo sent out on Thursday, AFL-CIO President John Sweeney outlined the blueprint for how the union conglomerate would step up recess activities on health care reform and other topics pertinent to the labor community.

The document makes clear that Obama allies view the town hall forums as ground zero of the health care debate. It also uses the specter of the infamous 2000 recount "Brooks Brothers" protest to rally its members to the administration's side.

"The principal battleground in the campaign will be town hall meetings and other gatherings with members of Congress in their home districts," reads the memo. "We want your help to organize major union participation to counter the right-wing "Tea-Party Patriots" who will try to disrupt those meetings, as they've been trying to do to meetings for the last month. ...

(Remember the hooligans - many of them Republican Congressional staff - who harassed Florida vote counters in 2000? We can't let that happen again!)."

A showdown between unions and grassroots conservative organizations could make for an August full of fireworks, with even more dysfunctional town hall meetings. The AFL-CIO is planning to target 50 "high priority districts," in addition to organizing telephone town hall gatherings.

But while the union conglomerate seems poised to flex its political muscle on Obama's behalf, it may find some friction on the policy front. Detailed in Sweeney's memo are certain legislative priorities that are clearly at odds with what seems likely to be produced in the Senate Finance Committee's compromise bill.

Sweeney describes it as a "requirement that ALL employers 'pay or play,'" that the final bill have "a robust public health insurance plan to compete with private insurers and drive down health costs," and that the legislation contain "relief for company/union funds providing pre-Medicare retiree coverage, and no taxation of health benefits!"

The AFL-CIO also promises to "Redouble our efforts on Capitol Hill against taxation of benefits OF ANY KIND, for including ALL businesses in the requirement to provide coverage, and for a robust public health insurance plan option."

According to reports on Thursday, the Senate Finance Committee is considering compromise legislation that will contain no public option for insurance and would tax health-care benefits of the most generous plans.

UPDATE: AFL-CIO Secretary Treasurer Richard Trumka sends out a scathing statement about the town halls, hitting on Sweeney's themes and calling the events corporate funded.

Every American has the inalienable right to participate in our democratic process. Our politics is passionate, heartfelt and often loud -- as was the founding of our nation. But that is not what the corporate-funded mobs are engaging in when they show up to disrupt town halls held by members of Congress.

Major health care reform is closer than ever to passage and it is no secret that special interests want to weaken or block it. These mobs are not there to participate. As their own strategy memo states, they have been sent by their corporate and lobbyist bankrollers to disrupt, heckle and block meaningful debate. This is a desperation move, meant to slow the momentum for change.

Mob rule is not democracy. People have a democratic right to express themselves and our elected leaders have a right to hear from their constituents -- not organized thugs whose sole purpose is to shut down the conversation and attempt to scare our leaders into inaction

We call on the insurance companies, the lobbyists and the Republican leaders who are cheering them on to halt these 'Brooks Brothers Riot' tactics. Health care is a crucial issue and everyone - on all sides of the issue -deserves to be heard.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/06/unions-to-take-on-conserv_n_252720.html

(in reply to Brain)
Profile   Post #: 783
RE: HEALTH CARE - 8/8/2009 9:08:18 PM   
Arpig


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OK, lets see if I have this correct...its somehow bad of the GOP to organise its constituents to oppose the efforts of Democratic congressmen to promote a bill they oppose,but its OK for the AFL/CIO to organise its constituents to oppose the GOP protesters? Come on guys, lets at least try to maintain the appearance of  fair play here.


_____________________________

Big man! Pig Man!
Ha Ha...Charade you are!


Why do they leave out the letter b on "Garage Sale" signs?

CM's #1 All-Time Also-Ran


(in reply to Brain)
Profile   Post #: 784
RE: HEALTH CARE - 8/8/2009 9:18:48 PM   
Brain


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Everyone has a right to participate in the debate, it is not appropriate
behaviour for one side to shout down the other side in order to prevent people from speaking. It is not a football game.

I quote from AFL-CIO Secretary Treasurer Richard Trumka.

He sends out a scathing statement about the town halls, hitting on Sweeney's themes and calling the events corporate funded.

Every American has the inalienable right to participate in our democratic process. Our politics is passionate, heartfelt and often loud -- as was the founding of our nation. But that is not what the corporate-funded mobs are engaging in when they show up to disrupt town halls held by members of Congress.

Major health care reform is closer than ever to passage and it is no secret that special interests want to weaken or block it. These mobs are not there to participate. As their own strategy memo states, they have been sent by their corporate and lobbyist bankrollers to disrupt, heckle and block meaningful debate. This is a desperation move, meant to slow the momentum for change.

Mob rule is not democracy. People have a democratic right to express themselves and our elected leaders have a right to hear from their constituents -- not organized thugs whose sole purpose is to shut down the conversation and attempt to scare our leaders into inaction

(in reply to Arpig)
Profile   Post #: 785
RE: HEALTH CARE - 8/8/2009 9:20:46 PM   
Arpig


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quote:

not organized thugs whose sole purpose is to shut down the conversation and attempt to scare our leaders into inaction
And organising union thugs to shut them up is the appropriate response?

_____________________________

Big man! Pig Man!
Ha Ha...Charade you are!


Why do they leave out the letter b on "Garage Sale" signs?

CM's #1 All-Time Also-Ran


(in reply to Brain)
Profile   Post #: 786
RE: HEALTH CARE - 8/8/2009 9:33:11 PM   
Brain


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The Health Insurance Racket:
Getting Rich by Denying Americans Care

UnitedHealthcare CEO Stephen Hemsley owns $744,232,068 in unexercised stock options. CIGNA’s Edward Hanway spends his holidays in a $13 million beach house in New Jersey. Meanwhile, regular Americans are routinely denied coverage for the care they need when they need it most.

Welcome to the American health insurance industry. Instead of helping policyholders attain the health security they need for their families, big insurance companies get rich by denying coverage to patients. Now they’re sending lobbyists to Washington, DC to twist the arms of lawmakers to oppose reform of the status quo. Why? Because the status quo pays.

Learn more about the glamorous lives of billionaire health insurance executives and tell us your story of being victimized by their greed. Then contribute to Brave New Films so we can continue to get the word out about the health insurance racket.

http://sickforprofit.com/

(in reply to Arpig)
Profile   Post #: 787
RE: HEALTH CARE - 8/8/2009 9:47:59 PM   
Sanity


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Your cut-and-paste propaganda railing against all those evil capitalist insurance providers making evil capitalist profits brings to mind a bumper sticker I once saw that read, "Don't steal - the government hates competition."

Do you really think all the profit and power in the hands of corrupt Congress men and women will be better in the long run?


_____________________________

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Profile   Post #: 788
RE: HEALTH CARE - 8/8/2009 9:51:06 PM   
lusciouslips19


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Well in other countries with government run healthcare their costs are 1/3rd the cost of the U.S. and they pay a fraction of the cost for medications in other countries. If you could explain the reason other than socialized healthcare then I'm all ears.

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Profile   Post #: 789
RE: HEALTH CARE - 8/8/2009 9:55:41 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

If she cant afford coverage, she cant afford to have kids.


And the species would decline. The poor of the world have always had to have several children to ensure survival. To suggest money worries could or should over rule human nature is absurd.


The species would survive quite well without them. And to suggest that someone who has money worried should add to them or burden society with them is what is absurd. If you want to appeal to nature, appeal to all of nature...those of our species who's parents couldnt provide for them died. Is that a better alternative than choosing not to have them at all?


Okay... maybe I am misunderstanding you. Care to explain? I understand your question. What I don't understand is why you would say this or bring it up at all. What was your intent?




The statement was that money worries shouldnt overrule human nature, as if there arent ways of preventing pregnancy if you have natures urges. However, that appeal to nature rings hollow in and of itself, because if you look at nature in its entirety and for most of history, procreation by those that cant provide for their young has resulted in the death of the offspring.

(in reply to Lockit)
Profile   Post #: 790
RE: HEALTH CARE - 8/8/2009 9:58:17 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

willbe I once could afford them. Then I couldn't. Should they then be neglected... by nature and it's course of course... be neglected unto death? Considered less because their mom became less?




Nope. I never even said that if you someone had them when they couldnt afford them they should be neglected. I said that someone who cant afford them should have the intelligence not to have them.

All of which is a hijack to the original point. That a Nurse Practitioner cant afford health care coverage is simply a lie.


a NP who starts her own practice wont have employeer based insurance, which is what most RN's have. try again. its very possible, and you have no proof otherwise.



We are talking about affording her own insurance. Proof? Unless shes the lowest paid NP in the country she can afford it.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 791
RE: HEALTH CARE - 8/8/2009 10:00:40 PM   
tazzygirl


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again... your proof. i work closely with NP's. i know their bills, their loans, their liability.

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Profile   Post #: 792
RE: HEALTH CARE - 8/8/2009 10:03:32 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

again... your proof. i work closely with NP's. i know their bills, their loans, their liability.



Good, post a typical NPs "bill, loans and liability" and show me that a typical NP cant affod $200/month at the top end.

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Profile   Post #: 793
RE: HEALTH CARE - 8/8/2009 10:04:30 PM   
tazzygirl


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Im not the one calling it a lie. the burden of proof is on you.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 794
RE: HEALTH CARE - 8/8/2009 10:06:47 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Im not the one calling it a lie. the burden of proof is on you.



I know and/or employ dozens of people who make $50 k a year and are paying college loans. Everyone of them can afford health insurance. You can play internet bitch all you want, someone making that kind of money is a fucking moron if they dont have health insurance.

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Profile   Post #: 795
RE: HEALTH CARE - 8/8/2009 10:07:00 PM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

again... your proof. i work closely with NP's. i know their bills, their loans, their liability.



Good, post a typical NPs "bill, loans and liability" and show me that a typical NP cant affod $200/month at the top end.


and... umm.. my cobra insurance is more than 200 a month, for a half way decent policy through Cigna. your pulling figures out of air.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 796
RE: HEALTH CARE - 8/8/2009 10:10:02 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

again... your proof. i work closely with NP's. i know their bills, their loans, their liability.



Good, post a typical NPs "bill, loans and liability" and show me that a typical NP cant affod $200/month at the top end.


and... umm.. my cobra insurance is more than 200 a month, for a half way decent policy through Cigna. your pulling figures out of air.


Im not pulling anything out of the air, and I believe it was you who posted similar numbers for health insurance in Wisconsin earlier. $200 is on the high side for a 28 year old non-smoker.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 797
RE: HEALTH CARE - 8/8/2009 10:27:27 PM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Im not the one calling it a lie. the burden of proof is on you.



I know and/or employ dozens of people who make $50 k a year and are paying college loans. Everyone of them can afford health insurance. You can play internet bitch all you want, someone making that kind of money is a fucking moron if they dont have health insurance.


$50k a year is roughly... 35 bring home. lets just round it up to 3000 a month, bring home... before anything is paid out.

Rent... 800 to 1000
power... 150
other utilities and cell phone... 300
food... 400
gas... lord knows they go through alot... 400 a month... and thats being conservative

we are already at 2400 a month, and no liability, no professional dues, no loans. and i am assuming she lives alone.

maybe 2 - 1 doesnt equal 1 anymore... hmmm.. cus it sure isnt adding up to her being able to afford it.




_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 798
RE: HEALTH CARE - 8/9/2009 3:29:20 AM   
cadenas


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy
I know and/or employ dozens of people who make $50 k a year and are paying college loans. Everyone of them can afford health insurance. You can play internet bitch all you want, someone making that kind of money is a fucking moron if they dont have health insurance.


$50k a year is roughly... 35 bring home. lets just round it up to 3000 a month, bring home... before anything is paid out.

Rent... 800 to 1000
power... 150
other utilities and cell phone... 300
food... 400
gas... lord knows they go through alot... 400 a month... and thats being conservative

we are already at 2400 a month, and no liability, no professional dues, no loans. and i am assuming she lives alone.

maybe 2 - 1 doesnt equal 1 anymore... hmmm.. cus it sure isnt adding up to her being able to afford it.


Don't forget 401(k) contributions because otherwise, when she turns 65 willbur will scream "she should have maxed out on the retirement contributions when she was young; she should have been able to afford that". That's $1333/month.

And of course all of that assumes that she plans on staying single and renting forever. Add children or a mortgage to the mix, and you have to add yet more.


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Profile   Post #: 799
RE: HEALTH CARE - 8/9/2009 3:49:14 AM   
cadenas


Posts: 517
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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy
quote:

ORIGINAL: cadenas

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy
A nurse practioner at age 28 cant afford health insurance? A doctor going without coverage? Doesnt pass the smell test.


Not just "a doctor". Congressman Kagen, M.D. of Appleton, Wisconsin.

What makes you think that a nurse practitioner at age 28 CAN afford health insurance? What do you think her premium would be?


If shes healthy, for a low deductible low co pay plan, 100-150 a month in Wisconsin.

She is in Miami. I just checked plans there for a 29-year-old woman in Miami. The only plan that remotely qualifies as "low co pay/low deductible" is $347.57. with a $35 copay, a $500 deductible, with UnitedHealthOne.

And that plan still only covers 80% of the covered expenses - meaning that she'd still be facing bankruptcy in case of catastrophic illness. And what's the point of insurance if you still end up bankrupt when disaster strikes?

To get real insurance, she probably needs upwards of $500 if it is available at all.


(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 800
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