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HEALTH CARE - 7/15/2009 11:31:20 PM   
Brain


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I expect Congress to pass a bipartisan health-care bill this summer. Are we going to finally get a health care bill that’s good for the American people?


As per Bill Moyers,
With almost 20 years inside the health insurance industry, Wendell Potter saw for-profit insurers hijack our health care system and put profits before patients.



http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07102009/watch.html



http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07102009/watch2.html


The biggest medical drama on our TV screens this summer is not reruns of "House" or "Grey's Anatomy." It's a high stakes, life and death spectacle inside and outside the halls of Congress, as lawmakers attempt open heart surgery on that most fragile and stubborn of patients — health care reform.
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RE: HEALTH CARE - 7/15/2009 11:52:59 PM   
philosophy


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...arguably, in domestic politics terms, this is the most important story for some decades. How this pans out is important. Not just for those who take an interest in health care, but for those who have competing visions of what US government ought to be involved in. Somebody is going to win and someone will lose. Riveting stuff.

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RE: HEALTH CARE - 7/16/2009 12:12:10 AM   
ThatDamnedPanda


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Philosophy, what's amazing to me is how few people seem to get that. This is huge. This is potentially the biggest sea change in American domestic policy since the New Deal, 75 years ago. And it's getting 30 seconds a night on the evening news, if that. Amazing.

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RE: HEALTH CARE - 7/16/2009 12:23:29 AM   
philosophy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

Philosophy, what's amazing to me is how few people seem to get that. This is huge. This is potentially the biggest sea change in American domestic policy since the New Deal, 75 years ago. And it's getting 30 seconds a night on the evening news, if that. Amazing.


...i don't think that's a coincidence. As i alluded to, health care is just one battlefront in an ideological war. i'd suggest that this war is being fought for the soul of America (because i rather like that phrase :) ).
Will the USA decide that it's all for one and one for all, and that government is not some exterior element but merely the aggregate of all their hopes and fears? Or will the USA decide that it's everyman for himself, although charity is a noble thing, and that government resides exterior to the real American society, and not intrinsic to it?
It's an exciting time. Now, how did that old curse go? Ah, may you live in exciting times!

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RE: HEALTH CARE - 7/16/2009 3:03:17 AM   
Brain


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What we have today is Wall Street run healthcare not government healthcare or not health care for the people

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RE: HEALTH CARE - 7/16/2009 4:50:03 AM   
DarkSteven


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In the early 1900s, we saw robber barons take over the economy.

In the early 200s, we're seeing the latter day robber barons - financial firms, HMOs, etc. - brought to the brink by their own greed and marginalizing the idea of serving the customer.  I fear that they will get subsidized and federally institutionalized so that they will be able to continue their greed without needing customers.


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RE: HEALTH CARE - 7/16/2009 5:08:19 AM   
Lorr47


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quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

Philosophy, what's amazing to me is how few people seem to get that. This is huge. This is potentially the biggest sea change in American domestic policy since the New Deal, 75 years ago. And it's getting 30 seconds a night on the evening news, if that. Amazing.


...i don't think that's a coincidence. As i alluded to, health care is just one battlefront in an ideological war. i'd suggest that this war is being fought for the soul of America (because i rather like that phrase :) ).
Will the USA decide that it's all for one and one for all, and that government is not some exterior element but merely the aggregate of all their hopes and fears? Or will the USA decide that it's everyman for himself, although charity is a noble thing, and that government resides exterior to the real American society, and not intrinsic to it?
It's an exciting time. Now, how did that old curse go? Ah, may you live in exciting times!


Outstanding post; government "the aggregate of all their hopes and fears."


< Message edited by Lorr47 -- 7/16/2009 5:10:40 AM >

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RE: HEALTH CARE - 7/16/2009 5:19:23 AM   
Lorr47


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain

I expect Congress to pass a bipartisan health-care bill this summer. Are we going to finally get a health care bill that’s good for the American people?


As per Bill Moyers,
With almost 20 years inside the health insurance industry, Wendell Potter saw for-profit insurers hijack our health care system and put profits before patients.



http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07102009/watch.html



http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07102009/watch2.html


The biggest medical drama on our TV screens this summer is not reruns of "House" or "Grey's Anatomy." It's a high stakes, life and death spectacle inside and outside the halls of Congress, as lawmakers attempt open heart surgery on that most fragile and stubborn of patients — health care reform.



Wendall Potter has impressed me a lot both on Moyers and elsewhere.  However, I am wondering whether those who are working for the benefit of the many in this country can prevail over the "profit" motive of the few who have honed obstructionism to a fine art. 

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RE: HEALTH CARE - 7/16/2009 6:21:05 AM   
DomImus


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My concern is for all those poor Canadians. Where will they go for prompt testing and procedures once our health care system is just like theirs?

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RE: HEALTH CARE - 7/16/2009 6:31:27 AM   
Lucylastic


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Our doctors, just like we do now, Ive had a Cat scan, waited four weeks, Ive had chest xrays, blood tests done same day they were requested by my doc, kidney and lung function tests with a fortnight, oh and I dont have to wait more than three days to see my doc and if its urgent, he will usually see me if I sweet talk the receptionist ...the same day..... I have a walk in clinic open till nine.
NO insurance beyond my health card.....no payments either,  no bills, its all taken at taxes. I have never had to worry about being able to cover the docs bills and eating or heating or any other neccessity.
Admittedly there are issues in canada, and the UK, and blatantly not good in some areas, Emergency care and long waits for some treatments. But I wouldnt be able to afford an american solution. so Id be stuck on the waiting list anyway.


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RE: HEALTH CARE - 7/16/2009 6:41:51 AM   
Lorr47


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomImus

My concern is for all those poor Canadians. Where will they go for prompt testing and procedures once our health care system is just like theirs?


One of the networks had a segment where Canadians were interviewed as to their opinion of the Canadian health system.  Also, some Canadians were interviewed while waiting in the emergency room.  After all the republican propaganda about waiting etc. in the Canadian system I was surprised that every one of them expressed satisfaction with their system both as to treatment and time.

Looking at it from another viewpoint, at least the Canadians are getting treatment.  I developed Giant Cell Bone Tumors.  Do you want to see how far the US profiteering health system ran.  And, yes, I paid premiums until age 55 years when the insurers bailed out.  Those who raise hell about Obama's plan should think about what is going to happen to them when they reach about 55 and the insurers no longer want your money because they might have to pay a claim.



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RE: HEALTH CARE - 7/16/2009 7:50:06 AM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lorr47

However, I am wondering whether those who are working for the benefit of the many in this country can prevail over the "profit" motive of the few who have honed obstructionism to a fine art. 



Nope.

Since you are right next door in Michigan you probably remember the scare campaign run by doctors, hospitals and the insurance lobbies a few years ago in Ohio.

There were billboards, newspaper ads, and television commercials all claiming that if malpractice liability was not limited by legislation we would have doctors fleeing the state, hospitals closing, and patients having to go out-of-state for treatment by specialists.

More or less the same nonsense that is being trotted out again against national health care.

Unfortunately, too many people either don't have the time or don't have the patience to research the facts and they buy into these claims and end up supporting things that are against their own best interests.

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RE: HEALTH CARE - 7/16/2009 7:52:41 AM   
CallaFirestormBW


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... and that is the biggest issue. When health care is being run "for profit", rather than as a public service to maintain the health of the community and sustain the infrastructure, the people who can't afford the 'for profit' solution are -still- going to be left out in the cold, on long waiting lists, and unable to get treatment for their illness. What is sad is that, even for the people like me who -do- pay for "premium 'for profit'" care, we are -regularly- denied treatments our medical practitioners tell us we need, have to wait for procedures, and have HUGE co-pays and payments for costs of procedures beyond what the insurance companies agree is the "allowable charge" (ie., the absolute minimum we can get away with paying for this without looking like the theives that we are).

Call it socialism or whatever nasty name you want, because I refuse to succumb to propagandizing labels meant to do nothing but encourage the idea that EVERYTHING should be for sale, and if you're not willing to sell it or buy it, you're obviously not a "good American". It seems to me that health care isn't something that should be run 'for profit'. There are so many ways to make money that it seems to me that caring for peoples' health should be one of those things we do because we want to heal people, or want to improve lives, or want to do something good for society. I guess I don't understand how we lost our capacity for compassion and our interest in healing as an integral part of shaping a community, rather than as a tool for padding pockets at the expense of human lives. To me, that shows a measure of inculcated greed that is just unfathomable, in my mind (though it seems to make perfect sense to some other folks). Of course, when I was doing births, I accepted payment to cover costs and living expenses, and especially when I was working in Alaska, and dealt with a lot of subsistence hunters and fishing families, a side of elk or 100 lbs of salmon or halibut for the freezer was just as good, to me, as $300 + transportation costs to deliver a baby, and if a family didn't have anything, I had no issue with taking them on just because I didn't want to see them have to go through the process without a professional present if they wanted one. To me, how much money you have shouldn't be the deciding factor of whether you get the care you need to live a relatively healthy life and whether you're able to get treatment for illnesses or accidents.

As an addendum, I think that there are some things that should remain "for profit" and which universal health care shouldn't pay for... things like face-lifts or other cosmetic problems that are -not- done to alleviate gross deformity or health issues (for example, I think that plastic surgery to remove excess skin after extreme weight loss should be a covered procedure, but a tummy-tuck for bikini season should be an optional procedure that a person pays for out of pocket. In the same way, plastic surgery to repair a harelip should be covered by universal health care, but collagen injections for the lips should be strictly 'out of pocket'). These areas would provide a field where, I suppose, if a person were in the medical field for the money, xhe could still make a rather prodigious income... and I suppose that, if insurance companies wanted to tap into that, they could sell things like "Age-Minimizing Insurance" and "Figure-Enhancement Insurance". I'm ambivalent about things like IVF. In general, I think that if a couple can't have children, there are -so- many kids who need families that really, IVF and its ilk are sort of "luxury" procedures to me -- but I suppose that if a doctor could provide a good medical reason why IVF was a necessity and not a luxury, that a particular case could be covered. I guess I just don't think that things like IVF should be -routinely- covered.

Dame Calla

< Message edited by CallaFirestormBW -- 7/16/2009 7:55:21 AM >


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RE: HEALTH CARE - 7/16/2009 8:04:23 AM   
Phoenixpower


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I really hope for you that your healthcare system improves, though I admit I can't talk about that in regards to experience as I am not from there. But being grown up in Germany where we have a very good health care system I miss that one badly over here in UK and appreciate a lot what service I received in my 25 years living in my home country. A friend of mine got a stroke in her country (abroad somewhere) and was desperate to be brought back to the UK as in her country there is not much health care going on. If I would have a stroke here I would make damn sure to get back to Germany as I would not want to be treated for it over here (they achieved a lot with her already, thank goodness, but I simply miss the standard I am used to and would not feel comfortable being stuck in the place for many weeks where she is at the moment).

Therefore good luck and I wish you the desired improvements

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RE: HEALTH CARE - 7/16/2009 8:12:25 AM   
Brain


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Senate Panel Approves a Health Care Bill, But Will it Pass?
The Senate Health, Education, Labor and Pensions panel voted along party lines to approve its version of the health care reform bill on July 15, 2009, one day after House Democrats unveiled their own $1.04 trillion measure.
President Obama was quick to applaud the committee's action.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=8087650&page=1

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RE: HEALTH CARE - 7/16/2009 8:23:05 AM   
servantforuse


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I doubt very much that it will pass. It is to expensive. For the first time we have a 1 trillion dollar deficite. The Obama administration is expecting to tax ( penalise ) large and small businesses to the tune of 1 trillion to pay for it. To add another tax burden on businesses in a deep recession is suicide. If this passes the Dems lose control of the House in 2010..

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RE: HEALTH CARE - 7/16/2009 9:03:45 AM   
CallaFirestormBW


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The thing is, if we were paying for universal health care as a tax, rather than having to pay premiums and co-pays and cover the amounts above the "allowable charges" most individuals (and businesses) would actually come out -ahead-. How short-sighted can we be? Where I work, we're already paying $300 a month in premiums, plus co-pays and prescription co-pays.

DC


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RE: HEALTH CARE - 7/16/2009 9:11:22 AM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

I doubt very much that it will pass. It is to expensive. For the first time we have a 1 trillion dollar deficite. The Obama administration is expecting to tax ( penalise ) large and small businesses to the tune of 1 trillion to pay for it. To add another tax burden on businesses in a deep recession is suicide. If this passes the Dems lose control of the House in 2010..


And can you explain to me how the budget deficit for 2009 is the fault of the Obama administration?

Take note of the date in the following article, three weeks before Obama took office.



2009 budget deficit is estimated at $1.2 trillion Jan 7 10:08 AM US/Eastern


WASHINGTON (AP) - The federal budget deficit will hit an unparalleled $1.2 trillion for the 2009 budget year, according to a Capitol Hill aide briefed on new Congressional Budget Office figures.


The aide says the CBO also sees a $703 billion deficit for 2010. The dismal figures come a day after President-elect Barack Obama warned of "trillion-dollar deficits for years to come."


CBO's figures don't account for the huge economic stimulus bill that Obama is expected to propose soon to try to jolt the economy. At the same time, they do not reflect the immediate cost of the Wall St. bailout.


The shrinking economy has led to a sharp drop in tax revenues, which is largely responsible for the deficit, along with about $350 billion in spending so far for the Wall St. bailout.



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RE: HEALTH CARE - 7/16/2009 9:20:05 AM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

The Obama administration is expecting to tax ( penalise ) large and small businesses to the tune of 1 trillion to pay for it. To add another tax burden on businesses in a deep recession is suicide. If this passes the Dems lose control of the House in 2010..


And while we're at it I thought I would address this point separately.

The $1 trillion cost of the health care plan is spread over 10 years.

We've spent $904 billion (as of December 2008) on the war in Iraq alone, in 5 3/4 years (at the time of that figure).

I guess it depends on how you view priorities.

But hey, now we know for sure that Iraq didn't have any WMD's.  Of course it was pretty damn expensive to find out.



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RE: HEALTH CARE - 7/16/2009 12:36:55 PM   
MzMia


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I think many Americans are watching what is going on concerning the "health care bills".
The battle is just beginning, and I think it is going to be a long fight.
It appears that many Blue Dog Democrats want changes, or they will block the health care bill.

'Blue Dog' Democrats may block health care bill - CNN.com

I agree with most people, in that we do need some form of national health care coverage in the U.S.A., for many of us, it is the who, what, where and how we are concerned about.

I agree, we are living in a very important and exciting period of history!!!

< Message edited by MzMia -- 7/16/2009 12:54:24 PM >


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