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Opinions,please, on ethical behavior - 7/21/2009 5:01:57 PM

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Long story short: I spent last week with my Dom, and during my stay we shared his computer. He left his inbox on another kink site open on the screen,and yes, I read the messages. They were in plain view.

The messages were all initiated by him to sub females. He told them he was free (i.e., uninvolved), and each message seemed to be a sincere attempt to recruit them as potential slaves. He told them he was looking for long term...when he has been telling me he wants ME for life for the past six months! When I asked him about why he lied in the messages (and lied to me...he told me I was the only sub he wanted) he basically said "I was playing online and had no intention of following through."

I had told him before we began training that the only thing that would cause me to request being let go is dishonesty. I have to note that he never agreed to be honest...only that he would protect me and care for me. We had discussed play with others and had agreed that we would be open and mutually engage potential play partners. So,in my fury, I basically told him I wanted nothing more to do with him,and that I was releasing myself. His point was that he is a Dom, a KING, a Master, and has the right to do as he pleases without me questioning him. Of course now I am heartbroken.

So...I am confused. Did I have a right to question him? I believe trust is THE key element within a BDSM dynamic, and I could never see myself accepting a permanent collar and becoming a slave to a Master I don't trust. Does a Master have an absolute right to do as he pleases? Part of me believes that he left the messages open on purpose to prove the point that yes,he CAN do anything he wants, and as a sub, I have to like it.

Any input would be appreciated. Thanks.

RE: Opinions,please, on ethical behavior - 7/21/2009 5:05:43 PM

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Anyone can do anything they like. You can too.

You have to decide though what you will and will not stand for.

(in reply to Goddess2002)

RE: Opinions,please, on ethical behavior - 7/21/2009 5:29:29 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Goddess2002

I had told him before we began training that the only thing that would cause me to request being let go is dishonesty. I have to note that he never agreed to be honest...only that he would protect me and care for me. We had discussed play with others and had agreed that we would be open and mutually engage potential play partners.

You expressed wanting honesty and he refused to promise that. He also didn't engage play partners, by what you relayed here.

If you'd wanted him only on the basis of being honest AND to never chat up people online without you, you shouldn't have settled for less than that. He gave you one thing and you expected another from it. Write it off as clearly being incompatible and move on to better matches.

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(in reply to Goddess2002)

RE: Opinions,please, on ethical behavior - 7/21/2009 5:45:40 PM

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I doubt he left the messages open deliberately, prob just forgot about them.

My ex did the same, but on my comp, not his. Then lied about the messages, says the subs had instigated all convos.

Is prob the reason hes an EX.

Without trust and honesty, there is no relationship.

< Message edited by frazzle -- 7/21/2009 5:46:30 PM >

(in reply to Goddess2002)

RE: Opinions,please, on ethical behavior - 7/21/2009 5:55:53 PM

dreamerdreaming

Posts: 2839
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Congrats on dumping a guy who is clearly incompatible with you. You are well rid of him.

Sounds like a garden variety asshole. Sorry you got hurt, that sucks. But you are really a lot better off without some common asshole ruining your day.

Whether on purpose or by accident, he has clearly demonstrated that he doesn't fit your needs at all.

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(in reply to Goddess2002)

RE: Opinions,please, on ethical behavior - 7/21/2009 5:57:00 PM

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Not to say it was right for him to leave his computer on like that but your post implies that you two were just starting and he did not know if you would be his or not and therefore chatted up some other potentials. He might have wanted them as a safety net or a fall back position if it went wrong between the two of you.

You had every right to walk away from it and him. However as implied earlier, when he did not promise you honesty, you should have walked away then. Good luck to you in your future attempts.

(in reply to RumpusParable)

RE: Opinions,please, on ethical behavior - 7/21/2009 6:01:50 PM

lizi

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Goddess2002

I had told him before we began training that the only thing that would cause me to request being let go is dishonesty.

I believe trust is THE key element within a BDSM dynamic, and I could never see myself accepting a permanent collar and becoming a slave to a Master I don't trust.

The above are portions from your OP obviously and what I think are the pertinant points. From those two points above I'd say you are not a match with this Dom. It doesn't really matter if he thinks he's entitled to do whatever, if it's not ok with you then the relationship won't work. It's not to say he's wrong and you're right, perhaps it's just that his view of what is ok in a relationship and yours are different.

It's disappointing when things with someone aren't what we thought they would be and it happens unfortunately. Good thing you found out now instead of later down the road after more time was spent.

(in reply to Goddess2002)

RE: Opinions,please, on ethical behavior - 7/21/2009 6:10:25 PM

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The small amount of evidence suggests he may not be suitable to be anyone's parnter, or he was already having doubts about you that he didn't want to share. However, if his "was just playing with no intention to follow through" was honest, (probably wasn't) then you'd need to further investigate why he felt it was necessary to do such a thing before coming to any solid conclusions about how much of a douchebag he is.

And he's right...he can do anything he wants, as can you. :)

(in reply to Goddess2002)

RE: Opinions,please, on ethical behavior - 7/21/2009 6:22:46 PM

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boy can i relate to your situation.

i just had to walk away from a Dom i was really completely in love with over a similiar issue.

i know exactly how confusing it is and how much it hurts.

i have a slightly different take on this. what i am focusing on is that he told you he wanted you for life, and this has gone on for 6 months, and here you were spending a while week with him.

he wants you for life, he has you, you are there spending time with him, and he is still spending time on at least one kink site attempting to recruit other submissives???

when i am in love and seeing someone, i have absolutely no interest in talking to other 'potentials' at all. i would rather spend my time with the person i care about, or doing other things.

i think there is a major disconnect between what he is telling you and his actual bahavior and also a major disconnect between your stated values and his behavoir.

hey, i know where you are sitting. you were aware he didn't promise you honesty, but you went ahead into a relationship anyways, because you wanted him and could see yourself developing feelings for him

you have learned the same sad lesson i learned. you learned that loving feelings, connection and having a match in very compelling areas, will not overcome problems based with someone's basic character and values.

so sorry hon.. you are not alone

(in reply to GeekFreak)

RE: Opinions,please, on ethical behavior - 7/21/2009 6:26:31 PM

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I had something similar happen with my last Dom, he wanted exclusivity, then I find he is online chatting up other subs.

Doesn't matter what the intent on either side was, the trust was gone. End of relationship.

Mr. Geekfreak couldn't be more right!

(in reply to GeekFreak)

RE: Opinions,please, on ethical behavior - 7/21/2009 6:30:33 PM

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I actually had a long term Master say he couldn't sleep in my room, because his back hurt, and the carpeting in the computer room felt better. Of course I found out he had been on the computer alll night hitting on other women, as if he were single.
Now, I do know that men use the internet and the people on it for porn. I am totally cool with that. Just be honest about it.
And leading other women on is just cruel, even if they are only online fun for you, it may not be on their end, simply because you are misleading them.
Personally I hate it when people jerk off to talking to me. Without my consent, it's like rape, because I am being used without my permission. Maybe it isn't my body, but my soul and mind are being used. And there are times I am into that sort of play, but I think permission is huge.

(in reply to scottishdove)

RE: Opinions,please, on ethical behavior - 7/21/2009 6:45:38 PM

dreamerdreaming

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quote:

ORIGINAL: scottishdove

boy can i relate to your situation.

i just had to walk away from a Dom i was really completely in love with over a similiar issue.

i know exactly how confusing it is and how much it hurts.

i have a slightly different take on this. what i am focusing on is that he told you he wanted you for life, and this has gone on for 6 months, and here you were spending a while week with him.

he wants you for life, he has you, you are there spending time with him, and he is still spending time on at least one kink site attempting to recruit other submissives???

when i am in love and seeing someone, i have absolutely no interest in talking to other 'potentials' at all. i would rather spend my time with the person i care about, or doing other things.

i think there is a major disconnect between what he is telling you and his actual bahavior and also a major disconnect between your stated values and his behavoir.

hey, i know where you are sitting. you were aware he didn't promise you honesty, but you went ahead into a relationship anyways, because you wanted him and could see yourself developing feelings for him

you have learned the same sad lesson i learned. you learned that loving feelings, connection and having a match in very compelling areas, will not overcome problems based with someone's basic character and values.

so sorry hon.. you are not alone

_____________________________

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(in reply to scottishdove)

RE: Opinions,please, on ethical behavior - 7/21/2009 7:05:26 PM

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quote:

Does a Master have an absolute right to do as he pleases? Part of me believes that he left the messages open on purpose to prove the point that yes,he CAN do anything he wants, and as a sub, I have to like it.

Ah. A dom who is sub to a dom. Unless I am missing something, you reap what you sow.

(in reply to Goddess2002)

RE: Opinions,please, on ethical behavior - 7/21/2009 7:07:20 PM

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Obviously he was not being honest with you and you said that is something you require, even though he didn't promise it.....so I'd say you two were incompatible and you should move on. But I'm surprised, based on the title of the thread, that no one mentioned or asked about your reading his private e-mails. Even if they were in plain sight, you already said you knew they were his. Just out of curiosity.

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In lowering yourself to talking behind my back, you're perfectly positioned to kiss my ass.

An it harm none, do what ye wilt.

(in reply to Goddess2002)

RE: Opinions,please, on ethical behavior - 7/21/2009 7:26:57 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Goddess2002
When I asked him about why he lied in the messages (and lied to me...he told me I was the only sub he wanted) he basically said "I was playing online and had no intention of following through."

Did you for one second belief this line of crap?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Goddess2002
I had told him before we began training that the only thing that would cause me to request being let go is dishonesty. I have to note that he never agreed to be honest...only that he would protect me and care for me.

Let me guess....when you questioned him on his behavior, he brought up that he had never promised you honesty, right? Or did he specifically tell you he couldn't promise to be honest with you? Sorry, but if someone tells you that they need you to be honest with them, and you say NOTHING, the person making the request takes that as meaning they understand and aren't going to lie to you.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Goddess2002
We had discussed play with others and had agreed that we would be open and mutually engage potential play partners. So,in my fury, I basically told him I wanted nothing more to do with him,and that I was releasing myself. His point was that he is a Dom, a KING, a Master, and has the right to do as he pleases without me questioning him. Of course now I am heartbroken.

Translation: I'm an asshole, and now that I've been caught, I'm going to play the "I'm the master" card to cover up my lack of integrity.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Goddess2002
So...I am confused. Did I have a right to question him?

Unless I'm missing something here, the two of you were involved in a romantic relationship that had a BDSM dynamic to it. You also had discussed the objectives you both had for the relationship, which didn't include him "playing online" and trying to entice other subs. Did you have the right to question him? You had the right to beat him over the head or force him into a position so he could suck his own dick. When you submit to someone, you may pass some of your rights to them, BUT they are still your rights. It has always been my belief when people are involved romantically as well, that when they get into the "do I have the right" questions, to ask themselves if they would accept such behavior in a vanilla relationship. Why? Because 99.9% of those "do I have the right" questions have to do with the RELATIONSHIP, not the dynamic. Granted, within the chosen dynamic, there are things that may occur that wouldn't in a vanilla relationship, but that's not the case with your situation at all. Surely, you are asking this because at the moment, your heart is broken and you are hurting and wondering if YOU did something wrong. You didn't.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Goddess2002
Does a Master have an absolute right to do as he pleases? Part of me believes that he left the messages open on purpose to prove the point that yes,he CAN do anything he wants, and as a sub, I have to like it.

On one hand as everyone has said, he has just as much absolute right as you do to do what he wants. HOWEVER, not only do you not have to like it, you don't have to tolerate it. It wasn't what the two of you discussed as part of the dynamic of the relationship. If this were a contract, he breached, which means that now there is no contract; brings us back to him sucking his own dick.

I'm very sorry you are hurting. Six months is a short time, but the second you give your heart, every moment is like a lifetime. Try to take comfort that you aren't the first or only person that this has ever happened to, and knowing that in time, you will heal and move on to someone much better for you. He, on the other hand, will repeat the same behavior over and over again, and probably get caught and dumped over and over again.

Take some time for yourself, grieve over your loss, don't let him pull you back in, and when you are ready, move on and find that person who will protect and care for you by always being honest and never breaking your heart.

(in reply to Goddess2002)

RE: Opinions,please, on ethical behavior - 7/21/2009 7:44:52 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Goddess2002

Long story short: I spent last week with my Dom, and during my stay we shared his computer. He left his inbox on another kink site open on the screen,and yes, I read the messages. They were in plain view.

The messages were all initiated by him to sub females. He told them he was free (i.e., uninvolved), and each message seemed to be a sincere attempt to recruit them as potential slaves. He told them he was looking for long term...when he has been telling me he wants ME for life for the past six months! When I asked him about why he lied in the messages (and lied to me...he told me I was the only sub he wanted) he basically said "I was playing online and had no intention of following through."

I had told him before we began training that the only thing that would cause me to request being let go is dishonesty. I have to note that he never agreed to be honest...only that he would protect me and care for me. We had discussed play with others and had agreed that we would be open and mutually engage potential play partners. So,in my fury, I basically told him I wanted nothing more to do with him,and that I was releasing myself. His point was that he is a Dom, a KING, a Master, and has the right to do as he pleases without me questioning him. Of course now I am heartbroken.

So...I am confused. Did I have a right to question him? I believe trust is THE key element within a BDSM dynamic, and I could never see myself accepting a permanent collar and becoming a slave to a Master I don't trust. Does a Master have an absolute right to do as he pleases? Part of me believes that he left the messages open on purpose to prove the point that yes,he CAN do anything he wants, and as a sub, I have to like it.

Any input would be appreciated. Thanks.

In a relationship such as a D/s situation which requires a lot of trust, dishonesty is unacceptable. It sounds to me as though this Dom is toying with a few people's emotions (and i'm referring to the unsuspecting subs online that He is leading on).
When He fronted up and said "I'm only playing online, I have no intentionof following these up...", did He express any guilt or remorse for giving the subs false hope? That is a pretty crappy thing to do, if you step out of the picture and really look at it.
If He is doing this to those other subs, telling them He is unattached, looking for a long-term relationship, how can you be sure what He's telling you, isn't just another line to keep you waiting in the wings?

i know it sounds cynical, but i wouldn't put up with that duplicity.

Don't stand for it. You deserve more respect than that.

k.

_____________________________

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i wear His collar on my heart; and wherever i am, i know He is with me.

His love and my devotion and service to Him are stronger than leather or steel.

(in reply to Goddess2002)

RE: Opinions,please, on ethical behavior - 7/21/2009 7:49:48 PM

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It sounds exactly like something a Dom has said to me. As has been pointed out, playing the Dom card when caught lying is unacceptable. Find someone who actually respects women.

And people read emails when they know something is wrong. And then they find proof of it.

(in reply to KateyCaine)

RE: Opinions,please, on ethical behavior - 7/21/2009 10:22:27 PM

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You should have told him you weren't compatible when he wouldn't commit to being monogamous. Instead he wiggled out of it.

No, it wasn't ethical at all. He knew this was a deal breaker for you. If he had discovered that he really couldn't do monogamy after giving it a good try, then the ethical thing would have been to talk to you about it before sneaking around.

That way you could have parted company as friends with mutual respect. May I suggest that you go get yourself a full std scan? Because now that you know he's a cheater, you don't know what he's done that you haven't found out about.

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(in reply to Lostkitten3)

RE: Opinions,please, on ethical behavior - 7/21/2009 10:44:48 PM

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Trust takes a long time to build-a second to break. Once broken can it be rebuilt? This is the question you need to ask yourself.

Do what you know is right to do in your head not your heart at this point. Your heart will be making no sense whatsoever.

{{{{hugggssss}}}}

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(in reply to Goddess2002)

RE: Opinions,please, on ethical behavior - 7/21/2009 10:52:26 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Goddess2002

when he has been telling me he wants ME for life for the past six months! ."
He may want you for life and he may want more on the buffet of life..but it should have been discussed......

I had told him before we began training that the only thing that would cause me to request being let go is dishonesty. I have to note that he never agreed to be honest...only that he would protect me and care for me.
YOU made it clear that the ONLY thing that is a deal breaker is dishonesty..and you also note he DID NOT agree...therefore I would imagine it was in the back of your mind.

His point was that he is a Dom, a KING, a Master, and has the right to do as he pleases without me questioning him.
DID he make this point BEFORE you began your relationship or after this incident??

Either way..before means you can make a choice as to if you wish to live that way or after...then you can decide if you want ot GO back on your deal breaker and also PREPARE for more unexpected shit to be dished out.

Does a Master have an absolute right to do as he pleases?
IF he thinks he does then he will.
We cannot say what his rights are.

This is something that comes up over and over in relationships that have NOT been throughly TALKED out...negotiated or many scenerios brought up....... AND
at times with those who think DOM means the sub has NO right to question.
IF that is a criteria for for interaction it MUST be clear in the beginning.

point that yes,he CAN do anything he wants, and as a sub, I have to like it.
NO you don't..you are a human being and there is a BILL OF RIGHTS for them and may I suggest you draw up your own to show the next DOM??

Any input would be appreciated. Thanks.

This is hard..this is a learning...you must ask yourself the following:

*What is my 50% in this happening?

*Will I use this as a growing catalyst or to shit on myself?

*Will I use this to stand in my power or another's?

*What actions will take me forward? what will take me backward?

* How can I use this for my own gain in personal power?

YOU will need time for grief work...this is a loss..
if you want to message on the other side I can help...
maybe take the above questions and journal...??

xxxxx GQ

< Message edited by GYPZYQUEEN -- 7/21/2009 10:55:21 PM >

(in reply to Goddess2002)

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