The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come?

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The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really... - 7/22/2009 5:00:16 PM

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Harvard professor Henry Louis Gates was arrested for disorderly conduct, after a neighbor called police and told them he was breaking into a home. Thing was, it was his house...

We've come a long way, electing a black man as president. But are we a color blind society? Will we ever be?

No, but feel free to discuss the finer points amongst yourselves.

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/1973306/henry_louis_gates_arrest_becoming_a.html?cat=9

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RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we re... - 7/22/2009 5:10:36 PM

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...according to the article the police officer involved refused to show identification when asked. In the UK, that's illegal......what's the position in the US?

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RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we re... - 7/22/2009 5:18:19 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

...according to the article the police officer involved refused to show identification when asked. In the UK, that's illegal......what's the position in the US?

It may vary by jurisdiction but generally police must give you their badge number if requested.

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RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we re... - 7/22/2009 5:26:30 PM

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Apparently Mr. Gates also refused to show the police officers his identification. They responded to a possible burglary and had every right to ask who he was. Doesn't anyone watch 'cops' out there. They always ask for I D.. they have to..

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RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we re... - 7/22/2009 6:47:52 PM

kdsub

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OK...if it were my house...and an office asked me to step outside and talk to him...guess what...I would...knowing I just broke into my house at night.

OK... I'm a police officer...I have a call of a break in at this address... I am not going to walk into a house alone... I would have my gun out...would you?.. But he didn't...He asked the guy to step outside so he did not need to worry about an ambush... The guy instead of coming out refuses... What would you do... I know you would say...oh sure sorry to bother you excuse me and leave.

What a bunch of crap...he is lucky he didn't get a bullet between the eyes instead of a ride to the station.
He is not obligated to confront a belligerent suspect with one hand on his ID…at least not until the situation is under control...Was he not in full uniform with badge visible?

He was just as much at fault as the officer…he is no innocent victim of police brutality...he is just sort of stupid for a Harvard Professor.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 7/22/2009 6:56:30 PM >

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RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we re... - 7/22/2009 6:56:33 PM

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I only question your source. It happened in Cambridge, Mass, not Atlanta GA.

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RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we re... - 7/22/2009 6:56:46 PM

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If this professor were to be stopped for a minor traffic offense he would be required to show some ID ( drivers license ). If he doesn't he will be going for a ride. I have no sympathy for him..

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RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we re... - 7/22/2009 7:05:29 PM

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Seems the story has changed more than once, with witnesses claiming both sides were telling the truth.

I think this is a much better telling of events... but again, not the whole story.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32085686/ns/us_news-race_and_ethnicity/

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Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
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Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we re... - 7/22/2009 7:06:02 PM

MichiganHeadmast

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"We"? I don't know about this amorphous "we," but as for the professor he is apparently a race-baiting asshole.

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RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we re... - 7/22/2009 7:08:19 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

...according to the article the police officer involved refused to show identification when asked. In the UK, that's illegal......what's the position in the US?

In the U.S., a patrol officer is typically in a uniform with both his name and badge prominently displayed on his chest. There is no cause to 'demand' the information as it's right there in front of you.

However, when an officer responds to a break-in call and asks YOU for ID, you are required to show it.

I was so annoyed by a commentary on this incident (written by a black man) because his focus was not on the fact that the guy was seem bashing in his own door, but that he was a black man. Apparently from what I can tell in this incident, the 'race card' was thrown down first and foremost by the professor, then subsequently by everyone else quick to condemn the cop.

But I wonder, would the professor have 'demanded' ID from a black officer? I guess we'll never know. I say next time it appears someone is breaking into the professor's home......let 'em. Then afterward, when he's been robbed blind, the neighbors can say they didn't want a repeat of this incident.

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RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we re... - 7/22/2009 7:13:05 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MichiganHeadmast
"We"? I don't know about this amorphous "we," but as for the professor he is apparently a race-baiting asshole.

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'Till my legs give out, can't shut my mouth."

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RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we re... - 7/22/2009 7:19:03 PM

kdsub

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MichiganHeadmast

"We"? I don't know about this amorphous "we," but as for the professor he is apparently a race-baiting asshole.

I have watched him many times on PBS... the fact is he is just as much white as black... he is 50 50... I have always found him even handed in his commentary of black history...at least in public.

I think he was just tired after a long trip...frustrated that he was locked out of his house... then confronted by the police... But it is no excuse...any more than the police officer had an excuse in not defusing the confrontation after he found out his identity.

I think it has nothing to do with race...just two hot heads meeting at the wrong time…The Harvard professor thinking his shit don’t stink… and a police officer that takes no shit…nor wants to smell it...macho man syndrome.

Butch

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I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we re... - 7/22/2009 7:25:46 PM

ThatDamnedPanda

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
OK... I'm a police officer...I have a call of a break in at this address... I am not going to walk into a house alone... I would have my gun out...would you?.. But he didn't...He asked the guy to step outside so he did not need to worry about an ambush... The guy instead of coming out refuses... What would you do... I know you would say...oh sure sorry to bother you excuse me and leave.

You kiddin' me? What Constitution have you been reading? If I'm in my house, and a cop walks up and asks me to step outside, you're damn right I'm going to tell him to take a hike. Whatever he has to say to me, he can say it at the door, unless he has a warrant. If he has reason to think I broke into the house, we can settle it right there at the door by showing him my ID, but he's not coming in and I'm not coming out. Period.

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RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we re... - 7/22/2009 7:33:02 PM

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I still can't figure this one out.

I'll assume that the woman who called the cops did so because she saw a man breaking into a house. If it's dark, she wouldn't recognize him even if she knew him.

So I follow everything until he shows his ID. At that point, the cop should check the address on the DL, match it to the street address, and then withdraw. If he really wanted to, he can call HQ and ask that they check records and match his name to the owner of the house.

quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

If this professor were to be stopped for a minor traffic offense he would be required to show some ID ( drivers license ). If he doesn't he will be going for a ride. I have no sympathy for him..

Um, there's a huge difference between being on the road, and being in your own house. If I'm in my house, I don't expect a cop to come by and demand ID and that I leave my house.

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RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we re... - 7/22/2009 7:36:42 PM

kdsub

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
OK... I'm a police officer...I have a call of a break in at this address... I am not going to walk into a house alone... I would have my gun out...would you?.. But he didn't...He asked the guy to step outside so he did not need to worry about an ambush... The guy instead of coming out refuses... What would you do... I know you would say...oh sure sorry to bother you excuse me and leave.

You kiddin' me? What Constitution have you been reading? If I'm in my house, and a cop walks up and asks me to step outside, you're damn right I'm going to tell him to take a hike. Whatever he has to say to me, he can say it at the door, unless he has a warrant. If he has reason to think I broke into the house, we can settle it right there at the door by showing him my ID, but he's not coming in and I'm not coming out. Period.

Yea right...you would last about 1 day in St Louis as a police officer... The man was breaking into his house... how do the police know...If I had been the officer I would have had my weapon out...I guess he should have said "pardon me mister burglar would you pretty please let me in so you and your friend could disarm me at close quarters"

Come on he had no reason to put his life in danger... All the guy had to do was step outside for a few minutes…and be reasonable.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to ThatDamnedPanda)

RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we re... - 7/22/2009 7:36:48 PM

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Simple case of Cambridge Elitism.   Not even close to racism. The only one screaming about race during the event was the good professor. The cop followed procedure. I'm not so sure he should have been arrested, but according to eyewittnesses < neighbors> who came out due to the ruckus the Professor was creating, he was screaming and hollering. he must have been pretty loud to get the neigbors into the streets. When the cop asked Skippy to step outside so he could talk to him, Gates replied " I'll talk to YOUR Momma outside " I listen to the professors interview with ABC while he is recovering from the trauma of his arrest on Martha's Vineyard, he is a snide, condecending arrogant elitist. And his intitial comment to cops when he barked " you have no idea who you are messing with ", backs up his elitist arrogance.

Instead of being grateful that a passer by called 911 when she thought some one was breaking into his home, he turns it into a race issue. Think about it, a cop comes to your door and says someone called about a possible B&E, what would you do ? I would explain it was my home, give ID if asked and thank the cop for following up and protecting my home.

The poor woman who called the cops is being pictured as some racist neighbor. They're saying she wouldn't have called the cops if it was her white neighbor. Nooo, she didn't live in that neighborhood, she was from Malden. She happened to be walking by Skippy's  house when she saw two men with backpacks and on was shoving his shoulder into the door, appearing to try and break it down, so to speak.

Believe me when I tell you.. Cambridge is a world unto itself. A few years back, a Cambridge Boy Scout Troop set up donation boxes for soldiers in Iraq on elections day at or near the polling places. They city of Cambridge confiscated them. They said the Freaking Boy Scouts were conducting a Pro War effort.

                                mbmbn

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RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we re... - 7/22/2009 7:37:02 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

Apparently Mr. Gates also refused to show the police officers his identification.

...all the information i've seen contradicts that. They all say that Mr Gates did show his ID. Where did you read different?

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RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we re... - 7/22/2009 7:39:16 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

Apparently Mr. Gates also refused to show the police officers his identification.

...all the information i've seen contradicts that. They all say that Mr Gates did show his ID. Where did you read different?

I read that he refused the first time, and then did show his ID.

_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

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RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we re... - 7/22/2009 7:43:57 PM

kdsub

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I don't know for sure Phil...but yahoo says he refused at first and argued...then he later showed his ID...but it should have been over then...the police officer was mad I'm sure for being disparaged when he was responding to a call to protect this very mans property and acted on it.

I am just guessing like everyone else... but I do think it was not racial... it does not come over that way to me... it was just two hot heads.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to philosophy)

RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we re... - 7/22/2009 7:44:37 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

I read that he refused the first time, and then did show his ID.

..aha, thats the sort of thing that leads to confusion.....

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