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Is This What America Voted For In Voting Obama As Presi... - 8/1/2009 12:14:17 PM   
slutslave4u


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DOCTOR'S ORDERS
Obamacare called 'euthanasia bill'
Critic: 'Reflects regime worse than China's one-child policy'

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted: July 31, 2009
12:45 am Eastern

By Bob Unruh
© 2009 WorldNetDaily


President Obama

The Democrats' proposed national health insurance plan would dictate medications, treatments and mental health services; determine coverages individuals are allowed to have; and operate with real-time access to personal bank accounts, according to a new analysis.
And it's worse, a critic said, than China's mandatory one-child policy.
"In the same way that the bill pushes elderly or the sick toward euthanasia, it is a pill that would cause economic suicide," said Mathew Staver, founder of Liberty Counsel. "It's a euthanasia bill for America."
Congress members have admitted they have not read the more-than-1,000-page bill, and Staver's organization is one of the first to go through it and offer an analysis.
In the Liberty Counsel analysis, Staver notes that under Section 163, the government would be allowed to have real-time access to individuals' finances, including direct access to bank accounts for electronic funds transfers.
Under Section 1308, the analysis finds, the government will dictate marriage and family therapy as well as mental health services, including the definitions of those treatments.
Will the elites control life itself? 'The Emerging Brave New World' documents the battle against the sanctity of life ethic
Under Section 1401, a Center for Comparative Effectiveness Research would be set up, creating a bureaucracy through which federal employees could determine whether any treatment is "comparatively effective" for any individual based on the cost, likely success and probably the years left in life.
(Story continues below)



It also, according to Staver, "covers abortions, transsexual surgeries, encourages counseling as to how many children you should have, whether you should increase the interval between children."
The plan would allow, in Section 1401, for the collection of information about individuals' health records, both "published and unpublished," and recommend policies for public access to data.
"It reflects a repressive regime worse than China's one-child policy," Staver told WND. "It's going down the road for a government that manages the most intimate matters of your life regarding health and safety."
Further, the plan is created to be the "only game in town," he said. And as people age or get sicker, it includes mandatory "consultations" offering suggestions on how to end life sooner, he said.
The Liberty Counsel staff that did the research was "astonished" by what they found.
J. Matt Barber, director of cultural affairs for Liberty Counsel, said in a commentary the bill reflects the influence of those who now surround President Obama.
"His choice of Harvard professor and self-styled 'neo-Malthusain' John Holdren as 'science czar' provides the latest and perhaps most troubling example of just how bad America really muffed it last November," Barber wrote.
"In the name of population control, Holdren has advocated both forced abortion and compulsory sterilization through government-administered tainting of the water supply. In a book he co-authored, entitled 'Ecoscience: Population, Resources, Environment,' Holdren calls for a 'Planetary Regime' to enforce mandatory abortions and limit the use of natural resources," he wrote.
Staver pointed to some of Holdren's outrageous suggestions, such as implanting sterility capsules in girls at puberty and extracting them only when they obtain government permission to have children. For men, he has suggested putting additives in the water system to cause sterility.
Barber wrote that Holdren has affirmed he believes there is "ample authority" under the U.S. Constitution for population growth to be "regulated."
"Even ... laws requiring compulsory abortion … could be sustained under the existing Constitution," Holdren suggested.
Nina May, founder of Renaissance Women, added to the arguments. She cited a 1948 Hitchcock movie about murder in which the victim's body is hidden in plain sight.
"The health care bill that Obama proposes has this theme at its core and has in its crosshairs the Baby Boomer engine that is pulling the derailed economy as it takes its final lap toward retirement. In less than two years, Baby Boomers will begin retiring in multitudes, expecting to reclaim the hard earned money they have been paying into Social Security. But this Health Care Bill, HR3200, has other plans for them," she wrote.
"Those 65 and older will be required to undergo mandatory 'end of life' counseling to determine if they are worthy to continue to not only live, but take much needed resources from those who are younger and more worthy to receive them. Counselors will be trained to discuss how to end life sooner, how to decline nutrition and hydration, how to go into hospice, etc.," she said.
"This will not be done without coercion. For those who have amassed assets enough to take care of themselves in their old age will have these assets confiscated in the name of fiscal responsibility, because by this time, every citizen will be entered into a national database under the guise of improved efficiency. This database will be run by a type of 'star chamber,' appointed by the president, that will determine whether or not you deserve the much needed operation your personal doctor thinks you need," she said.
The Liberty Counsel analysis also pointed out the government would be allowed to ration health care procedures, prevent "judicial review" of its decision, tell doctors what income they can have, impose new taxes for anyone not having an "acceptable" coverage, regulate whether seniors can have wheelchairs, penalize hospitals or doctors whose patients require "readmission," prevent the expansion of hospitals and set up procedures for home visits by health care analysts.
Under Section 440, Liberty Counsel said, the government "will design and implement Home Visitation Program for families with young kids and families that expect children." And Section 194 provides for a program that has the government "coming into your house and teaching/telling you how to parent," LC said.
WND reported earlier when Betsy McCaughey, the former New York state officer, told former presidential candidate Fred Thompson during an interview on his radio program the health care plan includes consultations for seniors on how to die.
"One of the most shocking things is page 425, where the Congress would make it mandatory absolutely that every five years people in Medicare have a required counseling session," she said. "They will tell [them] how to end their life sooner."
The proposal specifically calls for the consultation to recommend "palliative care and hospice" for seniors in their mandatory counseling sessions. Palliative care and hospice generally focus only on pain relief until death.
The measure requires "an explanation by the practitioner of the continuum of end-of-life services and supports available."


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RE: Is This What America Voted For In Voting Obama As P... - 8/1/2009 12:22:34 PM   
Louve00


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I can only think of two words here.  Scare and tactic.

Nuff said

_____________________________

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RE: Is This What America Voted For In Voting Obama As P... - 8/1/2009 12:34:45 PM   
Sanity


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What has Obama been saying.

If we don't pass his porkulus bill (without reading it) we'll never recover from the great depression, and healthcare is in such crisis we can't debate the bills, there's no time -  we just gotta pass 'em as quick as possible...

And some of these things are in these bills. Cutting treatment for elderly folks in order to save money, etc.

Your "scare tactics" were first introduced by Barack Obama, in order to dump horribly bad legislation on us. Trying to claim scare tactics now is bad strategy on your part, especially in light of the bullshit scare tactics your president has been trying to pull.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Louve00

I can only think of two words here.  Scare and tactic.

Nuff said


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RE: Is This What America Voted For In Voting Obama As P... - 8/1/2009 12:44:12 PM   
Lucylastic


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Its from World net daily.... about as reliable as the enquirer, for heavens sake, get a copy of the bill as it stands right now and look it up yourself.
I would use 4 words, LOAD OF OLD BOLLOCKS.
The bill isnt perfect, not by a long shot but pleasssee get the bill and read the sections mentioned.
http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h3200/text
or
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h111-3200
I am not spending time and energy doing the debunking.
Im goin out for some sun n fun
Lucy





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(in reply to Louve00)
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RE: Is This What America Voted For In Voting Obama As P... - 8/1/2009 12:47:05 PM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

Joseph Farah is an American author, journalist and editor-in-chief of the conservative website WorldNetDaily (WND).[1]

WorldNetDaily provides primarily news and editorials, publishes letters to the editor, maintains forums and conducts a daily poll. It has been described as having a right wing conservative perspective.[5][6]

Barack Obama conspiracy theories
During the closing days of the 2008 presidential campaign, and in the weeks following Barack Obama's election as president of the United States, WorldNetDaily posted numerous articles that advanced conspiracy theories about his citizenship status, alleging he is not constitutionally eligible to be president because he is not a natural-born citizen and that his Hawaiian birth certificate is a forgery. These claims, however, have been disputed by Obama and Hawaii's state health department.[41][42] WND frequently posted articles on its homepage giving updates on numerous lawsuits that questioned Obama's citizenship status and were aimed at postponing the election and, later, the inauguration. These articles featured interviews with the plaintiffs, which included former New Jersey lawyer Leo Donofrio, 9/11 Truth attorney Philip J. Berg, and former Republican presidential candidate Alan Keyes. WND and Joseph Farah also touted The Obama Nation, a book critical of Obama written by WND staff reporter Jerome Corsi, which repeated the forgery allegations and claimed that Obama was born in Kenya. These claims, like many others in The Obama Nation, were widely disputed by Obama's campaign, progressive bloggers, and news outlets.

WND also began an online petition to have Obama's Hawaiian birth certificate released to the public. The website also unsuccessfully urged Supreme Court justices to hear the Donofrio, Berg and Keyes lawsuits.[43] In May 2009, WND began collecting money to erect billboards asking, "Where's the Birth Certificate?", the first three of which appeared in Louisiana, Pennsylvania, and Los Angeles.[44] Several WND commentators have written columns demanding that the birth certificate be released, including Farah; Corsi; Christian television host Hal Lindsey;[45] Faith and Values Coalition co-chair Janet Porter[46][47] and talk radio host Barbara Simpson.[48]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WorldNetDaily

Seems they also had legal troubles, a libel lawsuit

quote:

Libel lawsuit
On September 20, 2000, WND published an article[54] claiming that Clark Jones, a Savannah, Tennessee car dealer and fund-raiser for then-Vice President Al Gore, had interfered with a criminal investigation, had been a "subject" of a criminal investigation, was listed on law enforcement computers as a "dope dealer," and implied that he had ties to others involved in alleged criminal activity. In 2001, Jones filed a lawsuit[55] against WND; the reporters, Charles C. Thompson II and Tony Hays; the Center for Public Integrity, which had underwritten Thompson and Hays' reporting on the article and related ones[56] and various Tennessee publications and broadcasters who he accused of repeating the claim, claiming libel and defamation. The lawsuit had been scheduled to go to trial in March 2008;[57] but, on February 13, 2008, WND announced that a confidential out-of-court settlement had been reached with Jones. A settlement statement jointly drafted by all parties in the lawsuit states in part:

Discovery has revealed to WorldNetDaily.com that no witness verifies the truth of what the witnesses are reported by authors to have stated. Additionally, no document has been discovered that provides any verification that the statements written were true. Factual discovery in the litigation and response from Freedom of Information Act requests to law enforcement agencies confirm Clark Jones' assertion that his name has never been on law enforcement computers, that he has not been the subject of any criminal investigation nor has he interfered with any investigation as stated in the articles. Discovery has also revealed that the sources named in the publications have stated under oath that statements attributed to them in the articles were either not made by them, were misquoted by the authors, were misconstrued, or the statements were taken out of context.[58]


and this is a source we are supposed to believe??

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RE: Is This What America Voted For In Voting Obama As P... - 8/1/2009 1:09:06 PM   
DomKen


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The right wing lie machine is at it again. the real story:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/31/AR2009073103148.html

Honestly who doesn't think senior citizens shouldn't have a chance to talk over end of life options with a professional every 5 years?

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RE: Is This What America Voted For In Voting Obama As P... - 8/1/2009 1:18:50 PM   
tazzygirl


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now thats just wrong. and, personally, i remember the argument over euthanasia... honestly, many would love that option, and im speaking of terminally ill patients, not elderly. the scare tactics are just pathetic.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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RE: Is This What America Voted For In Voting Obama As P... - 8/1/2009 1:21:23 PM   
Louve00


Posts: 1674
Joined: 2/1/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Honestly who doesn't think senior citizens shouldn't have a chance to talk over end of life options with a professional every 5 years?


Apparently the people who would rather believe that a living will means the same thing as ending their lives right then and there.  And whatever else they choose to interpret as truth.

Making a living will will NOT be a mandatory thing.  A wise practice maybe, but not a requirement.  First, people have to educate themselves as to what means what.  Or.....they could wait for Rush and all those good ole's to interpret it for them.  Good luck with that though.  Its going to mean sifting thru more stuff like this!

_____________________________

For the great majority of mankind are satisfied with appearance, as though they were realities and are often more influenced by the things that seem than by those that are. - Niccolo Machiavelli

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RE: Is This What America Voted For In Voting Obama As P... - 8/1/2009 2:01:45 PM   
Lorr47


Posts: 862
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quote:

What has Obama been saying.

If we don't pass his porkulus bill (without reading it) we'll never recover from the great depression, and healthcare is in such crisis we can't debate the bills, there's no time - we just gotta pass 'em as quick as possible...

And some of these things are in these bills. Cutting treatment for elderly folks in order to save money, etc.

Your "scare tactics" were first introduced by Barack Obama, in order to dump horribly bad legislation on us. Trying to claim scare tactics now is bad strategy on your part, especially in light of the bullshit scare tactics your president has been trying to pull.



Groan.  Been out of the country for awhile?

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RE: Is This What America Voted For In Voting Obama As P... - 8/1/2009 2:04:24 PM   
servantforuse


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Why else would the democrats be in such a hurry to rush this bill through ? The more we all know about it, the less we want it shoved down our throats.

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RE: Is This What America Voted For In Voting Obama As P... - 8/1/2009 2:13:32 PM   
darchChylde


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From: Warm Springs, GA but i live in San Francisco.
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity
your president



I don't give a flying f*ck about who you voted for, if you are still a citizen of these here United States; He's your president too.  If you don't like it, move.  As long as you swallow and spread everything spooned down your throat, without taking the time and energy to research and develop your own opinion instead of reflecting someone else'; the you and we would be better off if you did move.


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RE: Is This What America Voted For In Voting Obama As P... - 8/1/2009 2:32:32 PM   
Lorr47


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quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

Why else would the democrats be in such a hurry to rush this bill through ? The more we all know about it, the less we want it shoved down our throats.


Want a glass of water to go with it.  Sometimes we have to make the children do things they do not want to do for their own good.

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RE: Is This What America Voted For In Voting Obama As P... - 8/1/2009 2:40:28 PM   
Loki45


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Louve00

I can only think of two words here.  Scare and tactic.

Nuff said


Indeed.


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RE: Is This What America Voted For In Voting Obama As P... - 8/1/2009 2:42:31 PM   
servantforuse


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Or better put. A socialist government must make choices for us because they know what is best for all of us.

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RE: Is This What America Voted For In Voting Obama As P... - 8/1/2009 2:55:48 PM   
BlackBBW


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The question is, what do we have now?  I here the word "socialist" health care sputtered a lot lately.  What does that actually mean?  Because the way I see it, we currently have "socialist" health care.  The amount of care, the cost and who is eligible to receive health care, is currently controlled by one entity.  So what is wrong is wrong with competition?  Having a public option will "truely" force insurance companies to compete.  Right now they are competing against one another.  How has that benefited the consumers?  Have you seen lower prices on premiums, doctor's vists or prescriptions?  I think not.  They set the price.  What is that called in the world of business?  Can you say monoply?

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RE: Is This What America Voted For In Voting Obama As P... - 8/1/2009 3:10:07 PM   
Lorr47


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quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

Or better put. A socialist government must make choices for us because they know what is best for all of us.


I knew you would catch on eventually. As has been stated so eloquently herein, the profit motive as relates to health care must be abolished.  We have allowed private health insurers try to get it right since 1948 and they cannot without wholesale theft, fraud and suffering.  Time to send in the first team.


< Message edited by Lorr47 -- 8/1/2009 3:14:05 PM >

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RE: Is This What America Voted For In Voting Obama As P... - 8/1/2009 3:10:25 PM   
servantforuse


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I will take the private sector over government control anytime. Having a few choices is much better than having no choices.

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RE: Is This What America Voted For In Voting Obama As P... - 8/1/2009 3:12:51 PM   
tazzygirl


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its like the cable company, or gas companies... a monoply held by a few. i want a national health system that forces the Big Boys to rethink their tactics.

National system should offer basics... check ups, dental, vision... again... basic level. Insurance companies have held us hostage long enough. Insurance offered through work places are offering less and less and costing more and more. Private insurance is expensive.. too expensive for most middle class, and then there is the "pre-existing" bs.

If this is the way we have to go to get what we need to become a healthier nation, then so be it.

As i said, its time to put away the partisan building blocks, snap on the big boy and girl panties, grow a set of balls as a country and stop worrying about who the hell is a dem or a repub. because.. this is an issue all americans are sick and tired of dealing with.



_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to BlackBBW)
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RE: Is This What America Voted For In Voting Obama As P... - 8/1/2009 3:26:59 PM   
TheHeretic


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From: California, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lorr47

Sometimes we have to make the children do things they do not want to do for their own good.




Yep.  There is that authoritarian streak of the left rearing it's head again. 

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RE: Is This What America Voted For In Voting Obama As P... - 8/1/2009 3:52:00 PM   
Lorr47


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lorr47

Sometimes we have to make the children do things they do not want to do for their own good.




Yep.  There is that authoritarian streak of the left rearing it's head again. 


In the 61 years you have had control nothing has been done and no "system" has been enacted.    You crowed when Mayo Clinic did not like everything that Obama suggested but the CEO of Mayo Clinic says the US will be bankrupt by 2015 because of health care and we have no system because of the greed of the private insurers.  The fraud in metropolitan areas, the over billing, the incorrect billing all point to a fact that is fast becoming apparent.  We do not need increased expenditures, we need the republicans and "profit motive" thieves to get their hands out of the till.  I would tell you to just leave the US but anywhere you moved to would have better health care than the US and you folks should not benefit from the wrongs you have perpetrated. Oh well, the problems we have to endure when dealing with self centered, selfish and dishonest children.


< Message edited by Lorr47 -- 8/1/2009 3:53:56 PM >

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