Collarchat.com

Join Our Community		 Collarchat.com

Home  Login  Search 

Define God


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> Define God Page: [1] 2 3 4 5   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
Define God - 8/2/2009 1:15:08 PM   
Esinn


Posts: 886
Joined: 6/23/2009
Status: offline 		Based on recent conversations it is my understanding some people define god as subjective supernatural intelligent thing which transcends space-time and is directly responsible for creation of the known universe.

Prior to these recent conversations my understanding of  god is it is a universal objective thing.  I have always understood the god concept to be something which would define god as an 'absolute' thing.  Whatever god is - god is god.  One definition is correct while all others are logically incorrect.  I have also always understood that subjective beliefs and opinions about god can not change it, god is an absolute.

We know according to the three laws of logic which are non-conceptual laws, they exist without a human mind, for something to exist it must have an identity which is not a logical contradiction.

Definition is a mandatory prerequisite for existence - a logical postulate.  Meaning for something which human current knowledge is aware of to exist we must be able to give "X" an articulate non-ambigious definition.  If this can not be done or the definition violates the laws of logic the concept is meaningless, & simply ceases to exist or is proven to be a concept existing only within the individual mind - having no external influence.
quote:


1. The law of identity: p is p at the same time and in the same respect. Thus: George W. Bush is George W. Bush, and George W. Bush is the son of George Bush.
2. The law of non-contradiction: a conjunctive proposition (one that uses "and", as in "p and q") cannot be both true and false at the same time and in the same respect. Thus the proposition "p and not-p" cannot be true. For example, the proposition "It is raining and it is not raining" is a contradiction, and must be false. Note: technically, the above example stated fully should read "It is raining and it is not raining at this location and at this time." This additional phrase encompasses the crucial factors of "at the same time" and "in the same respect," but in natural language it isn't common to state them explicitly. When evaluating a person's statements, it is sometimes helpful to consider whether or not they are indeed assuming the truth of such factors.
3. The law of the excluded middle: in any proposition "p," the related disjunctive claim (one that uses "or", as in "p or not-p") must be true. A more informal and common way of stating this is to simply say that either a proposition is true or its negation must be true - thus, either p is true or not-p must be true.

Logical musings aside...  I am still interested define this thing you call god.


< Message edited by Esinn -- 8/2/2009 1:33:14 PM >

_____________________________

Let's break the law
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Define God - 8/2/2009 1:36:17 PM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline 		Old bloke with a white beard who spends most of his time trying to get his cock sucked by angels but he's fairly useless with women - too childish for their liking - witness the widespread disease he presides over for no other reason than to run a book on how many will die during March. Says what he thinks and this tends to get him into trouble from to time and is obnoxious when drunk so he's seen by all others residing in heaven as pretty much harmless but definitely to be avoided at the heaven Christmas party. Proud owner of a seriously bad fashion sense - doesn't go anywhere without wearing sandals. An impossible misanthrope who isn't liked by the other members of the holy trinity. Was up in court on a drink driving charge last month but got off on a technicality - he claimed he was unaware that such a rule existed and as it wasn't ratified by him the rule was null and void. Vegetarian as was Hitler - make of that what you will.

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to Esinn)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: Define God - 8/2/2009 1:42:27 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		The word "God" is a metaphor for something beyond human comprehension.

Are you trying to deal with all this anger in therapy or something?

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to Esinn)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: Define God - 8/2/2009 1:45:31 PM   
Esinn


Posts: 886
Joined: 6/23/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Are you trying to deal with all this anger in therapy or something?


What do you mean?

quote:

The word "God" is a metaphor for something beyond human comprehension.


what do you mean?

Anything beyond human comprehension can be called god?  I do agree that god is beyond human comprehension and a meaningless concept.

Thanks for the prompt post.



_____________________________

Let's break the law

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: Define God - 8/2/2009 1:47:09 PM   
Esinn


Posts: 886
Joined: 6/23/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

Old bloke with a white beard who spends most of his time trying to get his cock sucked by angels but he's fairly useless with women - too childish for their liking - witness the widespread disease he presides over for no other reason than to run a book on how many will die during March. Says what he thinks and this tends to get him into trouble from to time and is obnoxious when drunk so he's seen by all others residing in heaven as pretty much harmless but definitely to be avoided at the heaven Christmas party. Proud owner of a seriously bad fashion sense - doesn't go anywhere without wearing sandals. An impossible misanthrope who isn't liked by the other members of the holy trinity. Was up in court on a drink driving charge last month but got off on a technicality - he claimed he was unaware that such a rule existed and as it wasn't ratified by him the rule was null and void. Vegetarian as was Hitler - make of that what you will.


I will need to sleep on it.


_____________________________

Let's break the law

(in reply to NorthernGent)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: Define God - 8/2/2009 1:51:27 PM   
sweetsub1957


Posts: 2201
Joined: 4/28/2009
Status: offline 		I don't really think of the Goddess/God I believe in in a visual sense, but more in a feelings/presence sense.  One will never be able to prove or disprove the existence of diety, but for me it's a way to explain the existence of everything else, myself included.  Also it gives me a sturdy (in my mind anyway) set of beliefs and ethics to operate from.  "An it harm none, do what ye will" is what I try to live by.  Pretty simple on the one hand, yet it can be difficult at times too.  Keeps me on my toes.

_____________________________

Member: Lance's Fag Hags.

"That's not just a chip on her shoulder, that's the whole potato!" ~Lady Angelika~

In lowering yourself to talking behind my back, you're perfectly positioned to kiss my ass.

An it harm none, do what ye wilt.

(in reply to Esinn)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Define God - 8/2/2009 1:51:42 PM   
SteelofUtah


Posts: 5307
Joined: 10/2/2007
From: St George Utah
Status: offline 		God most often as I see it is a Concept for Direction.

A Moral Guideline and a Moral Purpose.

In a Way to Define God is to define your ideal of Right and Wrong.

In Recovery we are asked to find a God of our own Understanding, To Some it is Jesus Christ, To Others Buddah, to Others it is a Power that is simply greater than themselves.

God for me is often G.O.D. Meaning Good Orderly Direction and the idea that I choose to do Good to my Fellow man rather than Bad.

God could be a being and I am open to that Idea but I have a concept of Faith and to me that Faith is stronger than my concept of God it is the knowledge inside me that what I am doing is Right and not simply a passing of the motions of life.

God as a concept gives me at time the drive and courage to keep going on when things are at their worst. As the old saying goes there is no such thing as an Athiest in a Fox Hole.

I believe that I think everyone even athiests at the darkest moments will ponder if God exisits and turn to this God of thier understanding and hope that maybe they might just might have been misguided.

I do not believe in God in most of the Organized Religuious ideas as I find that they all think that the same man feels one way is the only way and oddly enough that they are somehow right and others are wrong.

In the end only death will bering the answer to this question and I for one honestly wonder if each person will get a different answer, if somehow what you believe is what happens to you.

Steel

_____________________________

Just Steel
Resident Therapeutic Metallurgist
The Steel Warm-Up © ™
For the Uber Posters
Thanks for the Grammatical support : ) ~ Term

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Define God - 8/2/2009 1:52:46 PM   
brispslave


Posts: 28
Joined: 1/27/2008
Status: offline 		God is the same as Santa Claus, except no one tells you it's all bullshit when you turn 8...sadly you have to work it out for yourself, which many people fail to do.

(in reply to Esinn)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Define God - 8/2/2009 1:55:02 PM   
sweetsub1957


Posts: 2201
Joined: 4/28/2009
Status: offline 		Welcome to the boards, brispslave.

_____________________________

Member: Lance's Fag Hags.

"That's not just a chip on her shoulder, that's the whole potato!" ~Lady Angelika~

In lowering yourself to talking behind my back, you're perfectly positioned to kiss my ass.

An it harm none, do what ye wilt.

(in reply to brispslave)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Define God - 8/2/2009 1:59:36 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		LOL.. want to upset people? say God or Jesus or Allah or any other related "being"

what is it about religion that scares so many people? or reduces most to belittling, petty people who can seem to do nothing but try and rip apart something that they have no clue about. just a hint... no matter what definition you rip apart, no matter how you try and demoralize people for their belief... you cant destroy a belief.

< Message edited by tazzygirl -- 8/2/2009 2:00:33 PM >

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to sweetsub1957)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Define God - 8/2/2009 2:00:01 PM   
Esinn


Posts: 886
Joined: 6/23/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetsub1957

I don't really think of the Goddess/God I believe in in a visual sense, but more in a feelings/presence sense.  One will never be able to prove or disprove the existence of diety, but for me it's a way to explain the existence of everything else, myself included.  Also it gives me a sturdy (in my mind anyway) set of beliefs and ethics to operate from.  "An it harm none, do what ye will" is what I try to live by.  Pretty simple on the one hand, yet it can be difficult at times too.  Keeps me on my toes.


LOL?  You are kidding right?


_____________________________

Let's break the law

(in reply to sweetsub1957)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Define God - 8/2/2009 2:05:32 PM   
Esinn


Posts: 886
Joined: 6/23/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

LOL.. want to upset people? say God or Jesus or Allah or any other related "being"

what is it about religion that scares so many people? ot reduces most to belittling, petty people who can seem to do nothing but try and rip apart something that have no clue about. just a hint... no matter what definition you rip apart, no matter how you try and demoralize people for their belief... you cant destroy a belief.



I am not attempting to rip apart or demoralize anyone.  That seems like you intend to upset me.  I am trying to understand what god is so we can speak intelligently about it in other threads.

What was the purpose of you replying here?  How does religion scaring people relate to the OP?  The only people I know who are truly afraid of religion are theists.


_____________________________

Let's break the law

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Define God - 8/2/2009 2:07:14 PM   
Esinn


Posts: 886
Joined: 6/23/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah

God most often as I see it is a Concept for Direction.

A Moral Guideline and a Moral Purpose.

In a Way to Define God is to define your ideal of Right and Wrong.

In Recovery we are asked to find a God of our own Understanding, To Some it is Jesus Christ, To Others Buddah, to Others it is a Power that is simply greater than themselves.

God for me is often G.O.D. Meaning Good Orderly Direction and the idea that I choose to do Good to my Fellow man rather than Bad.

God could be a being and I am open to that Idea but I have a concept of Faith and to me that Faith is stronger than my concept of God it is the knowledge inside me that what I am doing is Right and not simply a passing of the motions of life.

God as a concept gives me at time the drive and courage to keep going on when things are at their worst. As the old saying goes there is no such thing as an Athiest in a Fox Hole.

I believe that I think everyone even athiests at the darkest moments will ponder if God exisits and turn to this God of thier understanding and hope that maybe they might just might have been misguided.

I do not believe in God in most of the Organized Religuious ideas as I find that they all think that the same man feels one way is the only way and oddly enough that they are somehow right and others are wrong.

In the end only death will bering the answer to this question and I for one honestly wonder if each person will get a different answer, if somehow what you believe is what happens to you.

Steel


Hopefully we get a few more thought out and intelligent definitions like dis one here.


_____________________________

Let's break the law

(in reply to SteelofUtah)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Define God - 8/2/2009 2:13:13 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

what is it about religion that scares so many people? or reduces most to belittling, petty people who can seem to do nothing but try and rip apart something that they have no clue about.



Sometimes it is simple bigotry, Taz, but they feel it's ok, because they claim the mantel of enlightenment, and all their friends agree with them.  Denial is a river in Egypt, you know?



_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Define God - 8/2/2009 2:18:21 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		lol

all i know is that i find this rather amusing. my belief is my belief, and it requires no one's understanding, no one's acceptance, no one's approval.. other than my own. see how truly simple it is?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Define God - 8/2/2009 2:20:34 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Esinn

I am trying to understand what god is so we can speak intelligently about it in other threads.



Have you read any Joseph Campbell?  The Masks of God series is excellent. 

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to Esinn)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Define God - 8/2/2009 2:22:23 PM   
sweetsub1957


Posts: 2201
Joined: 4/28/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Esinn

quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetsub1957

I don't really think of the Goddess/God I believe in in a visual sense, but more in a feelings/presence sense.  One will never be able to prove or disprove the existence of diety, but for me it's a way to explain the existence of everything else, myself included.  Also it gives me a sturdy (in my mind anyway) set of beliefs and ethics to operate from.  "An it harm none, do what ye will" is what I try to live by.  Pretty simple on the one hand, yet it can be difficult at times too.  Keeps me on my toes.


LOL?  You are kidding right?



Okay.  What's so funny?  Go ahead.  Be an asshole.  The reason I said "in my mind anyway" is because I know there are gazillions of people who disagree with me & I also know that's their right.  I don't laugh at you and ask if you're kidding.  You ASKED for definitions of God, and that was mine.  If you don't like it, that's fine, but you don't have to be rude and insulting about it.  My definiton works fine for me and that's what matters.  As long as anyone's definition works for them, that's what really matters.  As a matter of fact, I think you are a troll,  here to irritate the shit outta people on purpose.  No more & no less.  So, with that in mind, go have an aerial sexual experience with a mobile perforated pastry.  Think about that one for awhile & if you can't figure it out, just ask.  I will me mooooore than happy to tell you what it means. 

_____________________________

Member: Lance's Fag Hags.

"That's not just a chip on her shoulder, that's the whole potato!" ~Lady Angelika~

In lowering yourself to talking behind my back, you're perfectly positioned to kiss my ass.

An it harm none, do what ye wilt.

(in reply to Esinn)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Define God - 8/2/2009 2:38:07 PM   
Esinn


Posts: 886
Joined: 6/23/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

lol

all i know is that i find this rather amusing. my belief is my belief, and it requires no one's understanding, no one's acceptance, no one's approval.. other than my own. see how truly simple it is?


That is what racists say.

A movie/documentary which I believe you can find on youtube is relevant, "Hitler: Rise To Power(2003)"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtutF36Rn5I (The link is a strange home made trailer I found).

By the time his beliefs were challenged it was obviously not too late as they were crushed.  However, much damage was done.

The fact is irrational beliefs lead to irrational actions.  This is so well understood by modern psychology that it is not out of line to be called a law.

Personal irrational beliefs which left unchallenged have lead to oppression and slaughter of tens of millions

I do not see why people are so afraid to intelligently and rationally examine their core beliefs.  The only reason such examination is not made is because it would demonstrate they are irrational - no one likes to feel irrational.  I will let you chime in with the last word as I am done with this discussion it is off topic.  You only started so you could take a jab or two - so may have the last, princessTT..  If you wish to discuss personal belief in another thread I think it would be a meaningful discussion.


_____________________________

Let's break the law

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Define God - 8/2/2009 2:43:10 PM   
Louve00


Posts: 1674
Joined: 2/1/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Esinn


I am trying to understand what god is so we can speak intelligently about it in other threads.



Based on reading some of your posts, I think you're intelligent enough to understand what God is to some people.  Its if you're willing to truly understand what that meaning is to them, and for them to understand what it/He does or doesn't mean to you, that will bring about an intelligent conversation.

Some think people that believe, believe in make-believe, imagined things somewhere "up there", and dismiss it as that.  I think as potent as the thought of believing can be to some, it can be the same for non-believers.  I believe this....  I believe in the power of belief.  I believe if you believe in a power, or a thing, or a thought strong enough your energy, your momentum, your mind will and can be soothed by it.  If you have enough faith in a thing in the name of anything...God, yourself, your spouse, your body, an energy that floats around that we feed off of, whatever.  I believe if you believe in it, you will pull your power from it.  Some call that mind over matter.  But I believe thats what faith is based on.  You can call it God, Allah, Jehovah, whatever, but what you expect from that personal belief (to me) would be the bigger question.  If that belief gives you the comfort, guts, fortitude or whatever it is that enables you to go on, than that (I would think) is a good belief. 

As far as defining God goes, well....I would bet you could ask that question to a whole bunch of different people and get different answers, depending on who or where you were asking the question.  I also believe all those different answers would be neither right or wrong nor all right and wrong.  I think different people believe in different things.  Some for the same reasons, some for different reasons.  But, whats most important to remember is, they are beliefs.

_____________________________

For the great majority of mankind are satisfied with appearance, as though they were realities and are often more influenced by the things that seem than by those that are. - Niccolo Machiavelli

(in reply to Esinn)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Define God - 8/2/2009 2:45:12 PM   
Esinn


Posts: 886
Joined: 6/23/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetsub1957

quote:

ORIGINAL: Esinn

quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetsub1957

I don't really think of the Goddess/God I believe in in a visual sense, but more in a feelings/presence sense.  One will never be able to prove or disprove the existence of diety, but for me it's a way to explain the existence of everything else, myself included.  Also it gives me a sturdy (in my mind anyway) set of beliefs and ethics to operate from.  "An it harm none, do what ye will" is what I try to live by.  Pretty simple on the one hand, yet it can be difficult at times too.  Keeps me on my toes.


LOL?  You are kidding right?



Okay.  What's so funny?  Go ahead.  Be an asshole.  The reason I said "in my mind anyway" is because I know there are gazillions of people who disagree with me & I also know that's their right.  I don't laugh at you and ask if you're kidding.  You ASKED for definitions of God, and that was mine.  If you don't like it, that's fine, but you don't have to be rude and insulting about it.  My definiton works fine for me and that's what matters.  As long as anyone's definition works for them, that's what really matters.  As a matter of fact, I think you are a troll,  here to irritate the shit outta people on purpose.  No more & no less.  So, with that in mind, go have an aerial sexual experience with a mobile perforated pastry.  Think about that one for awhile & if you can't figure it out, just ask.  I will me mooooore than happy to tell you what it means. 


I came here without the expectation religion would be a discussion topic.  Honestly I have never been to any other BDSM forum which has had a section where I could discuss religion.  Two of my favorite things BDSM/Intellectual discourse...  Religion has been an interest and a passion for many years.  The fact I want to look at intelligently or question it is not justification to suggest I am a troll or hateful.  I have started several threads here which received over 5,000 views and many replies, none of these replies included yours. No, I do not want a cookie, well if you insist - I like peanut butter.

-E


_____________________________

Let's break the law

(in reply to sweetsub1957)
Profile   Post #: 20
Page:   [1] 2 3 4 5   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> Define God Page: [1] 2 3 4 5   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2024
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.113