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RE: Young submission and its consequences - 8/9/2009 10:41:48 AM

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Prinnsex -- that is why you call the police and REPORT it, that gives your daughter credibility, as Lady Pact says take pictures, hell write statements of when it happens. You keep believing the army will fix him -- or get her away -- i hope it does BUT what if it doesn't? And she runs off to whereever he is stationed and calls you dead or hospitalized?

angel

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What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
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(in reply to Prinsexx)

RE: Young submission and its consequences - 8/9/2009 10:42:05 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Prinsexx

quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

quote:

ORIGINAL: JonnieBoy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Starbuck09

You also have a duty of responsibility to report this to the army anyway prinsexx

Not under this jurisdiction she doesn't (just translating)

Pirate

now think about this. If an officer/recruiter/whatever were to get a call from a civilian, complaining that her daughters love interest was abusive prior to his enlistment...how much credence would said official give to the report?

There is no police report to back up the complaint. There are no hospital reports showing the daughter was injured. There is simply a woman (who if she values her license is NOT reporting this young man as a therapist) that may sound like a parent is pissed off that this young man rejected her daughter for a career.

At last some sense.
Also: the streets are littered with stuff like this going on on a Saturday night. The E R rooms are packed full of young girls and drunken louts.
There were no witnesses.
I will lose her trust...at least she phoned me and I got her home.
If i intervene in their relationship believe me she will take his side and not mine.
If I report him to the Police nothing will happen except a warning.
I do not want to press charges even if i did it would ruin the sheer effort this younfg man has put into turning his life around. And believe me it is a remarkable turn around. He will learn to pick on men of his own size in the Army rather than young women. It will be the finest lesson he will ever learn.
There is a very very fine line between this happening as an act of bodily harm and this happening as an expression of sheer grief between them that he is going away. Too young to vote but old enough to have consensual sex and die for his country.
The difference between how it is being viewed here is layered, layer upon layer of morality and conformist values about teenage behaviour/the obligatory nature of therapy and indeed submissiveness. In my opinion.

my first thought after reading this: What the hell did you start the thread for?

My second thought (assuming your daughter is a minor) Who is the parent here? Guess what...there are times our kids HATE us..swear they will never again trust us, take the side of the abuser over us, yada, yada, yada. In the long run...so what?

Let her hate you, let her say she has lost trust in you, let her take the side of an abuser who will no longer be a part of her life. She will be ALIVE to do so.

Stop trying to be her best friend. She has friends. She needs you to be a mother.

Start the paper trail now. Take photos of the abuse, make a police report, do whatever you have to do.

I swear to you...in the long run you will win her respect.

< Message edited by sirsholly -- 8/9/2009 10:48:10 AM >

_____________________________

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MEMBER OF THE SUBBIE MAFIA
GRACEFULLY CHALLENGED :::::splat:::::
BOOT WHORE
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GIVES GOOD HEART (Lushy)

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(in reply to Prinsexx)

RE: Young submission and its consequences - 8/9/2009 10:42:38 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Apocalypso

quote:

ORIGINAL: JonnieBoy
Not under this jurisdiction she doesn't (just translating)

Pirate

What's that view based on? I know from experience that's not the law as regarding groups like Childline. This is obviously slightly different however, so you may well have more specialist knowledge.

(I am pretty sure that not reporting it could, at the least, be seen as a failure in 'duty of care' by Social Services).

Are you up to speed with what passes for parental protection and the cases that have slipped through Social Services' hands in the UK recently?

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(in reply to Apocalypso)

RE: Young submission and its consequences - 8/9/2009 10:43:46 AM

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If you report him to the police prinsexx there is a possibility that you can get a court order against him to protect your daughter. If the abuse is as extensive as you say then there will be evidence of it. THere are people who deal with domestic violence but you are going to have to contact them yourself. At least speak to them anonymously to consider your options. Who cares what side your daughter takes. IT's scary certainly I understand that. Your daughter may [only may] grow up resenting you but she WILL grow up. If she is as intelligent as you posit as well then given time she will see that what you did was for the best and done out of love. Why not speak to this boy's parents? The fact that he is jopining the army is in no way an excuse for this behaviour and he is disgracing the uniform he hopes to wear by engaging in it. If this is how he expresses grief then he will fare extremely poorly in the army.

(in reply to sirsholly)

RE: Young submission and its consequences - 8/9/2009 10:44:06 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

my first thought after reading this: What the hell did you start the thread for?

For deep seated ulterior motives....(irony).

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(in reply to sirsholly)

RE: Young submission and its consequences - 8/9/2009 10:50:32 AM

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Prinsexx it as been brought to my attention that as a therapist and a person in a position of authoritythat you do have a duty of care to report this and that in cass likethis the police can prosect without witness statemnets. I believe you know as well as I do what your course of action should be.

(in reply to Prinsexx)

RE: Young submission and its consequences - 8/9/2009 10:51:12 AM

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From: Cymru
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Apocalypso

quote:

ORIGINAL: JonnieBoy
Not under this jurisdiction she doesn't (just translating)

Pirate

What's that view based on? I know from experience that's not the law as regarding groups like Childline. This is obviously slightly different however, so you may well have more specialist knowledge.

(I am pretty sure that not reporting it could, at the least, be seen as a failure in 'duty of care' by Social Services).

How ya doin' geezer?

OK ... that view is based on her responsibility as far as the ARMY goes for a civilian (responsibility/duty as opposed to any so called moral view), no relation, reporting someone to the army. I suspect (but can check) that even a relation would not be held up on that.

Hmmmm ... specialist knowlege ... possibly, you never know. (cm me and I'll drop you a hint)

As far as the "Duty Of Care" ... that can be considered by several "agencies" other than and including the one you mention ... so ... yes it's a possibility, in reality though, if the "agency/agencies" got enough (evidence?) to even consider THAT, I'm certain that they would have lifted the perpetrator instead and saved themselves a lot of paperwork (

you know how this works).

Pirate

(in reply to Apocalypso)

RE: Young submission and its consequences - 8/9/2009 10:55:28 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

You make excuses for her because if she gets some help and fixes her issues, then you won't have any excuse to not fix yours.

She learned this at her mother's knee. You get into unhealthy relationships repeatedly and accept inappropriate behavior "because you're submissive'. There are lots of us who are submissive but do not accept such behavior.

Get some help and get her some help. Break the cycle in both generations.

[in bold for easy reading through tears]

Read three times, then act upon this brilliant advice. Stop being so enmeshed with her and be the mother she deserves and you deserve to be--the kind that does what is necessary, even when it scares you.

< Message edited by petmonkey -- 8/9/2009 10:58:08 AM >

(in reply to DesFIP)

RE: Young submission and its consequences - 8/9/2009 10:55:43 AM

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In the states at least it is considered unprofessional for a therapist to counsel themselves or a close family member. Just saying . . .

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(in reply to JonnieBoy)

RE: Young submission and its consequences - 8/9/2009 10:57:46 AM

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From: Quietville
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Starbuck09

Prinsexx it as been brought to my attention that as a therapist and a person in a position of authoritythat you do have a duty of care to report this and that in cass likethis the police can prosect without witness statemnets. I believe you know as well as I do what your course of action should be.

not sure about the UK...but here there is a fine line between reporting and a breech of patient confidentiality.

She is obligated only if her patient is a minor.If not a minor she must obtain the patients ok to breech a confidence.

Second...her daughter is not her patient and reporting as a therapist is abuse of privilege.

< Message edited by sirsholly -- 8/9/2009 10:59:04 AM >

_____________________________

PICKED UPON
TECHNO-DOLT
MEMBER OF THE SUBBIE MAFIA
GRACEFULLY CHALLENGED :::::splat:::::
BOOT WHORE
VAA/S FAN

GIVES GOOD HEART (Lushy)

CREATOR OF MAYHEM (practice)

(in reply to Starbuck09)

RE: Young submission and its consequences - 8/9/2009 10:57:55 AM

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Joined: 4/22/2009
From: Cymru
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

quote:

ORIGINAL: JonnieBoy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Starbuck09

You also have a duty of responsibility to report this to the army anyway prinsexx

Not under this jurisdiction she doesn't (just translating)

Pirate

now think about this. If an officer/recruiter/whatever were to get a call from a civilian, complaining that her daughters love interest was abusive prior to his enlistment...how much credence would said official give to the report?

There is no police report to back up the complaint. There are no hospital reports showing the daughter was injured. No photos of the injuries. There is simply a woman (who if she values her license is NOT reporting this young man as a therapist) that may sound like a parent is pissed off that this young man rejected her daughter for a career.

I have virtually no experience with US military law ... which is why I merely offered a translation.

I have an off the record answer but thats not for public consumption.

Pirate

(in reply to sirsholly)

RE: Young submission and its consequences - 8/9/2009 11:01:30 AM

Posts: 42360
Joined: 9/7/2007
From: Quietville
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JonnieBoy

quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

quote:

ORIGINAL: JonnieBoy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Starbuck09

You also have a duty of responsibility to report this to the army anyway prinsexx

Not under this jurisdiction she doesn't (just translating)

Pirate

now think about this. If an officer/recruiter/whatever were to get a call from a civilian, complaining that her daughters love interest was abusive prior to his enlistment...how much credence would said official give to the report?

There is no police report to back up the complaint. There are no hospital reports showing the daughter was injured. No photos of the injuries. There is simply a woman (who if she values her license is NOT reporting this young man as a therapist) that may sound like a parent is pissed off that this young man rejected her daughter for a career.

I have virtually no experience with US military law ... which is why I merely offered a translation.

I have an off the record answer but thats not for public consumption.

Pirate

i have no experience to speak of Jonnie...just common sense (i do have some, on occasion) if there is no documentation there is no case.

_____________________________

PICKED UPON
TECHNO-DOLT
MEMBER OF THE SUBBIE MAFIA
GRACEFULLY CHALLENGED :::::splat:::::
BOOT WHORE
VAA/S FAN

GIVES GOOD HEART (Lushy)

CREATOR OF MAYHEM (practice)

(in reply to JonnieBoy)

RE: Young submission and its consequences - 8/9/2009 11:02:36 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JonnieBoy

I have virtually no experience with US military law ... which is why I merely offered a translation.

Pirate

Exactly why I offered what I would do.

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Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

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(in reply to JonnieBoy)

RE: Young submission and its consequences - 8/9/2009 11:02:40 AM

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I'm off for dinner now prinsexx, but if you would like feel free to email me. I think you've been given plenty of good advice here.

(in reply to JonnieBoy)

RE: Young submission and its consequences - 8/9/2009 11:10:47 AM

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From: Cymru
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quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel

disgusted with Jonnie as it seems he advocates your enabling.

angel

How so? I don't recall discussing "enabling" (as to what and for whom I advocate, you could always ASK POLITELY) ... disgusted why ? because I don't display the anger you do ? because I touch the raw nerve that irks you so?

If everyone addressed this kind of thing with your level of anger, the hidden problems would be suppressed even more than there now.

Be disgusted, you're going to anyway, and you're going to be WAY off target, you used the word "seems", got the spine to climb down out of your tree and find out ?

Pirate

(in reply to barelynangel)

RE: Young submission and its consequences - 8/9/2009 11:11:58 AM

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I'm sure the right advice is contained above somewhere but luckily for us in this modern age of interweb there are all kinds of useful links to follow:

This is a good starting point!

Similar but more contacts

My overarching view is it's better to talk in person or on the phone with people that have gone through similar experiences and who are bound by the same law of the land.

I was also going to suggest watching an episode or two of Columbo but you'd need a heated blanket.

< Message edited by FullCircle -- 8/9/2009 11:21:28 AM >

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(in reply to Starbuck09)

RE: Young submission and its consequences - 8/9/2009 11:14:37 AM

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Joined: 8/2/2009
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quote:

I have virtually no experience with US military law ... which is why I merely offered a translation.

Pirate

I'm failing to understand why this entire discussion has devolved into a military debate. The pertinent facts, to me at least, is that the OP has witnessed her own daughter being beaten and dragged around until she was bloody...and by a 16 year old kid.

She initially claims that her daughter is 'submissive', but just a couple of posts later refers to her daughter as a prick teasing slut and suggests her daughter asked for and deserved this treatment.

So many contradictions have been made by the OP and again, the venom she displays in some of her posts is uncalled for.

(in reply to JonnieBoy)

RE: Young submission and its consequences - 8/9/2009 11:15:14 AM

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quote:

He will learn to pick on men of his own size in the Army rather than young women.

Wow...you really believe that??? Hate to break it to you but many many times just the opposite happens to many who join the military. They come back with major emotional problems that leads to abuse of their spouses and anyone else that gets in their way...and yes I have experience with this before you start asking that.

quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

my first thought after reading this: What the hell did you start the thread for?

quote:

For deep seated ulterior motives....(irony).

aaahhhh...so to stir something up that had nothing really to do with your daughter?? hhhmm...well then...my previous post still seems to be what you need. I wish you the best of luck I guess.

(in reply to JonnieBoy)

RE: Young submission and its consequences - 8/9/2009 11:17:41 AM

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Joined: 4/22/2009
From: Cymru
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

quote:

ORIGINAL: Starbuck09

Prinsexx it as been brought to my attention that as a therapist and a person in a position of authoritythat you do have a duty of care to report this and that in cass likethis the police can prosect without witness statemnets. I believe you know as well as I do what your course of action should be.

not sure about the UK...but here there is a fine line between reporting and a breech of patient confidentiality.

She is obligated only if her patient is a minor.If not a minor she must obtain the patients ok to breech a confidence.

Second...her daughter is not her patient and reporting as a therapist is abuse of privilege.

What kind of "Therapist" ? ... it sounds to me as though the confidence/privelige thing is different over with you too.

Pirate

(in reply to sirsholly)

RE: Young submission and its consequences - 8/9/2009 11:19:42 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Prinsexx

It's 5.30 pm. My daughter rings. She’s been at Ad’s. (He goes away with the Army in nine days time).
Sh’e well kind of weird. Says: he asked me to play the Play Station mom. I didn’t want to. I hadn’t come all this way for that. So he’s kicked me out. I’m at the station and I have missed my train.
I stuff most of a loaf. My logic is that it will absorb the pear cider. And drive to pick her up. Yet again.
She has an IQ equivalent to mine. She’s likely also to be an extravert-intuitive-thinker-perceiver. Just like me. And despite all my efforts I cannot save her from being a submissive female.
habitually she takes hour to dress. She will do anything Ads asks of her. She blames herself for everything that goes wrong. Longs to be his girl friend again instead of his friend. Answers the phone to his every call. Loves him so much there isn’t room in her head for anything or anyone else. And I cannot save her.
So I get her home and she goes out again. To some do along the river. I know she is lying.
3.30 am this morning. She rings again. She says god mom you don't understand it's horrible. I shaking cut and bruised. He's dragged me along the pavement. The skin is missing from my elbows mom and I can't walk. I dunno what to do. and so on.
I call a cab and pre-pay by credit card. And give that taxi her mobile so they can track her down.
By the time she is home I realise she is in a worse stae than I thought. It's been a case of real bodily harm. Her phone rings. It's him. I swear to go I will call the Police I say and get him kicked off the Army programme if she answers him. He texts are you ok come back to me.
She closes her door and rings him back. Then cries because he says ring me back in ten minutes but then he switches his phone off.
It's abuse I know. But although I can bathe her cuts, hug her and calm her down I can't change her submissive nature.
I see myself when I was young and knew no different.

I am my 28 yo daughter's mother before I am her friend. I always will be, regardless of age. If the above happened in my world, my daughter would have been taken (kicking and screaming if necessary) to the nearest ER. Charges would have been filed and the perpetrator would be wise to hope and pray that the law (MPs) got to him before my daughter's mother and stepfather.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to Prinsexx)

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