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RE: Young submission and its consequences - 8/9/2009 9:00:30 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mydestiny2043

I'm her mother.
And I know her.
She's a prick tease and provokes him.
She uses her beauty and her submission to get what she wants and she thought she could manipulate him.
There's a flip side to every coin.

And you my dear are projecting your values here and telling me I am calling my daughter a piece of trash.
Are you a mother? Are you my daughter's mother?
Are you aware of compassion?
Of being able to assess the rekationship these two young people have?
If the thread had been about my insecutities about being a mother, if I had been asking what to do as her mother, if I had been shooting from the hip and sounding off about him then yes by all means have a poke.

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RE: Young submission and its consequences - 8/9/2009 9:03:24 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Prinsexx

quote:

ORIGINAL: mydestiny2043

I'm her mother.
And I know her.
She's a prick tease and provokes him.
She uses her beauty and her submission to get what she wants and she thought she could manipulate him.
There's a flip side to every coin.

And you my dear are projecting your values here and telling me I am calling my daughter a piece of trash.
Are you a mother? Are you my daughter's mother?
Are you aware of compassion?
Of being able to assess the rekationship these two young people have?
If the thread had been about my insecutities about being a mother, if I had been asking what to do as her mother, if I had been shooting from the hip and sounding off about him then yes by all means have a poke.

Those were your own words you just quoted, btw.

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RE: Young submission and its consequences - 8/9/2009 9:07:38 AM

RCdc

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Prinsexx

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

quote:

ORIGINAL: Prinsexx
It's abuse I know. But although I can bathe her cuts, hug her and calm her down I can't change her submissive nature.
I see myself when I was young and knew no different.

I am so not turning from this to call bullshit Prin.
Age, mentality, orientation is NOT an excuse for accepting abuse. This is NOT a thing to do with submission at all. I was in a Ds relationship when young with a man who used abuse as an excuse. He hit me once out of anger and I walked out.
Don't blame submission or age for your daughters inability to see sense.
And as a parent it your responsibility to interfere. She would not have come to you if she didn't... even if she does protest it.

the.dark.

No I know you would not call bullshit.
I'm her mother.
And I know her.
She's a prick tease and provokes him.
She uses her beauty and her submission to get what she wants and she thought she could manipulate him.
There's a flip side to every coin.
And the side of this that no one seems to want to address is that women abuse too.
I'm not saying she deserved to get dragged along the pavement or beaten the way she did. But on the eve of going away in the army, having turned his life around the way he has, he didn't deserve some slut of a prick tease following him around the streets last night.
I'm surprised I can see it so clearly from both sides. But I can.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Prinsexx
It's abuse I know. But although I can bathe her cuts, hug her and calm her down I can't change her submissive nature.
I see myself when I was young and knew no different.

That's all understandable Prin. But don't use submission as an excuse for her behaviour or her youth on her lack of common sense.
So she fucked him over - so what? Hes an adult, let him deal with that. If they are abusing each other, then let them. But don't support the actions. And what you are doing is reinforcing the behaviour by your actions (as little as we all know here by what you have posted). You either support it or reject it - and by what you have written, your actions do the former.

the.dark.

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RE: Young submission and its consequences - 8/9/2009 9:09:19 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

quote:

She is far too intelligent for any therapist believe me. She just happens to be submissive. Innately.

NOBODY is far too intelligent for a therapist... Or, looked at it differently, we all are. Deceiving a therapist is no real trick... it is, afterall, your own brain the therapist is poking around in. The real question is why spend hundreds of dollars just to lie to someone?

Insofar as just happening to be submissive innately (and also generally out there in the world), so is Carol. She submits to the grocery store clerk, the parking attendant, you name it. But she, apparently, has a much clearer sense of limits than your daughter does. I agree with Steel.. Let's not blame this on submission. There is something else going on here.

You are not in relationship to my daughter. You do not understand where, when and how she submits. You undertsand Carol's.
I respect that you do. And you know that. I'm not blaming it on 'submission'. I have stated more than once that submission is a behavioural act of submission to someone.
My daughter is a submissive. She doesn't understand the confines, implications and limits of that for herself as yet.
I do not think forcing therapy onto her is going to help her to do that.
And perhaps you need to know that I qualified as a therapist in 1997 and came into that business with radical views.
Quite simply put my views are that those who can afford therapy can afford it.
And there are enough fat, rich, miserable bastards in the world to keep therapists in clover for a very long time.
There is something going on here about the early acting out of her submission. I used the word young not merely in an ageist sense. i have apologised for the misconceptions about this.
There is more going on here. There is always more going on. Most of the problems of submission and indeed slavery are resolved NOT by s types being in therapy but by being in relationships to domminants who do not abuse them, do not walk away when the going gets tough and most importantly i believe have compassion enough to be able to assess and see the world from their submissives point of view. Indeed some of the best dominaants i know have evolved from the submissive position and crassed the whip.
But then what the hell would i know I'm only a slave?.....(irony......)

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RE: Young submission and its consequences - 8/9/2009 9:15:05 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

[That's all understandable Prin. But don't use submission as an excuse for her behaviour or her youth on her lack of common sense.
So she fucked him over - so what? Hes an adult, let him deal with that. If they are abusing each other, then let them. But don't support the actions. And what you are doing is reinforcing the behaviour by your actions (as little as we all know here by what you have posted). You either support it or reject it - and by what you have written, your actions do the former.

the.dark.

No she didn't fuck him over.
She's desperate to please him and to be sexy for him. That's what I mean about her being a prick tease.
I have made it absolutely clear that if she sees him or he sees her then I will 999 him.
The army will take care of the rest.
I have a feeling that very few submissives reading this who, at the beginning of their explorations of being such, did not engage in a confusion between use and abuse,
I think they are being quiet here.
I think the ones who are making most noise and contribution, albeit snarky, are the ones who are clear about what their submission is. Or have dominats speaking for them.
Very clear D about my role as a mother in this house.

< Message edited by Prinsexx -- 8/9/2009 9:16:26 AM >

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To my stalker:
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(in reply to RCdc)

RE: Young submission and its consequences - 8/9/2009 9:17:47 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aileen1968

quote:

ORIGINAL: Prinsexx

quote:

ORIGINAL: mydestiny2043

I'm her mother.
And I know her.
She's a prick tease and provokes him.
She uses her beauty and her submission to get what she wants and she thought she could manipulate him.
There's a flip side to every coin.

And you my dear are projecting your values here and telling me I am calling my daughter a piece of trash.
Are you a mother? Are you my daughter's mother?
Are you aware of compassion?
Of being able to assess the rekationship these two young people have?
If the thread had been about my insecutities about being a mother, if I had been asking what to do as her mother, if I had been shooting from the hip and sounding off about him then yes by all means have a poke.

Those were your own words you just quoted, btw.

Totally aware I was quoting my own words back to you.

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Free woman
Resident thread finisher
To my stalker:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LN2lP_7J7GI&feature=fvwrel

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RE: Young submission and its consequences - 8/9/2009 9:20:52 AM

RCdc

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Prinnie. It's not got anything to do with submission or youth.
It's a fucked up relationship sure... but it's not submission.
Until you get to understanding that point, whatever you do with her is pointless.

the.dark.

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(in reply to Prinsexx)

RE: Young submission and its consequences - 8/9/2009 9:21:20 AM

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Pirate -- now go back and POST MY WHOLE POST instead of taking things out of context because the rest of my post explains my comments.

Your attempt to put words in my mouth is well irresponsible and ignorant. BTW Prinnsex is the one who said the kid is 16 and she knows him well. She also stated her daughter is an adult -- so yeah my question is what is an adult doing with a 16 year old kid -- perhaps that's why they don't want the police involved. I could AND HOPE i am misunderstanding the situation.

MY idea is if she can get this kid kicked in the ass at 16 that what he is doing is WRONG by reporting his ass and making him take responsibility instead of making excuses for him and denial -- maybe at 30 he won't be in prison for maybe killing her daughter or some other girl.

angel

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What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
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(in reply to JonnieBoy)

RE: Young submission and its consequences - 8/9/2009 9:22:01 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Prinsexx

quote:

ORIGINAL: IrishMist

~Fast general reply to the op ~

I have never heard such bullshit in my life.

You of all people understand the connection between being used and abused.
Did I touch a nerve?

Actually no. I have never tried to hide the absolute FACT that I LOVE abuse in all it's glory and evil.

I called your post BS because it's obvious that you only posted it so that others will agree with you and pat you on the back in sympathy.

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RE: Young submission and its consequences - 8/9/2009 9:23:34 AM

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Prinsexx, i am not going to waste my time reading your little articles, for from what you have said YOU ARE AN ENABLER -- you are in just as much denial and excuse making as your daughter.

I hope one of you wake up before she is found really hurt and he uses the excuse of ptsd because of his army time. I am not the one with a daughter who is calling me bloody and bruised -- perhaps instead of looking and worrying about your articles you look at your daughter. See the blood, see the bruises, see the hopelessness, see the desperation. Fuck for lack of better word -- the articles Prinnsex, and really LOOK at your daughter.

angel

One last note while you spew diatribe at people posting -- instead of seeing the negative in their posts SEE THE WORRY they have for your daughter. Damn straight they aren't supporting your irresponsibility, they are trying to let you see their worry so you WAKE UP instead of making excuses and remain in denial.

The army will help -- but it may help advocate the violence and anger in him rather than turning it into constructive useful weapon for the army.

< Message edited by barelynangel -- 8/9/2009 9:30:55 AM >

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What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
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RE: Young submission and its consequences - 8/9/2009 9:30:21 AM

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prinsexx...

are there "mandatory report" laws in the UK? i'm asking because yes, i know you are a therapist, and here in the US if you are a person in authority (teacher, police officer, doctor, therapist) and you do NOT report abuse, you are held liable also for the repeated injuries of the victim.

and no...no matter HOW sexy your daughter dresses, or how much she wishes to please this young male, it is NOT submission to be non-consentually injured by him. and her calling you in tears after he's injured her, indicates she did not consent for him to treat her this way.

if she/you are not willing to report this, and are not willing to have her talk with someone who is neutral and able to see the situation without the anger (justifiably, from you) or fear (from your daughter...fear of what he may do, or fear of being alone), then get her information on what submission *is*.

violence doesnt stop. it escalates. i have a daughter, too, and she was involved with someone who isolated her from her family, and her friends (she was only allowed to hang out with him and HIS friends)...till she came home and found him screwing one of their female friends on HER couch. that was the point she threw him out of HER apartment. she remember that she did indeed have a backbone, and had watched ME go through the same kinda shit with her bio-dad. and knew she didnt want that for herself.

i wish you luck.
kitten

(in reply to Prinsexx)

RE: Young submission and its consequences - 8/9/2009 9:37:57 AM

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Prinsexx asking for advice on a public forum and then sanpping at people when you do not like the advice given is not constructive. You have said to some people that they don't know you. so what. One can only judge a situation from the facts given in this case your original post. All the advice given here is valid. Personally I would suggest,
1 Does this boy have parents? If he does explain the situation to them.
2 Explain to your own daughter in depth your own experiences of abuse.
3 Do not make excuses for this behaviour either on the part of the boyfriend or your daughter. If you have been in an abusive relationship and escaped then as has already been noted you should have learnt this lesson.
4 If you truly believe your daughter experiences this abuse due to a facet of her personality [personaly I think that is irresponsible nonsense coming from her parent] then therapy might not be a bad idea. Clearly she is not too intelligent for therapy or she would not be in such a situation.
5 Make it clear to this young man that if this state of affairs continues then you will go to the police and the army will find out, if this does nothing then go to the police.
6 You don't want to drive a rift between yourself and your daughter by taking affirmative action against her boyfriend that is understandable. Presumably though you do not want your daughter to be brutally butchered like a game animal. Therefore suck it up lay down some ultimatums and penalties and allow a possibility that things will turn out allright. At the moment by enabling her to carry on as she is [phoning you at all hours e.t.c.] you are part of the problem. I know I am coming across as harsh but you have asked the public for advice and I think you need a stark response for a bleak situation. You must know all this anyway which makes me think prinsexx that yu are understandably scared of tackling this for fear of the consequences and are looking for symapthy and support. You can have those but first quit being part of the problem and be part of the solution. This is your daughter's life we are discussing take the steps that we both know will protect it.

(in reply to barelynangel)

RE: Young submission and its consequences - 8/9/2009 9:39:14 AM

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16 in the UK is NOT an adult but IS old enough to be a sex offender... perhaps YOU should have a re-read yourself ?

Who's being ignorant ?

Pirate

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RE: Young submission and its consequences - 8/9/2009 9:39:53 AM

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Prinsexx...
You have stated numerous times that people have not responded the way you were looking for. What exactly were you looking for?

Kali

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RE: Young submission and its consequences - 8/9/2009 9:48:14 AM

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Pirate what are you talking about? What part of ANY of my posts indicate sexual offender? I was thinking more along the lines of statutory rape IF her daughter is say in her 20s. Because out of the two here in the US he may be deemed a child and SHE could get HERSELF in trouble. So yeah i could see them not wanting the police involved if it will cause that mess. NOR have i advocated in any way what he was doing.

So seriously what the hell lol are YOU talking about? BTW here in the US abuse is abuse, last i checked even a 16 year old can be arrested and charged as an adult for assault.

< Message edited by barelynangel -- 8/9/2009 9:50:21 AM >

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RE: Young submission and its consequences - 8/9/2009 9:50:39 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: pixidustpet

prinsexx...

are there "mandatory report" laws in the UK? i'm asking because yes, i know you are a therapist, and here in the US if you are a person in authority (teacher, police officer, doctor, therapist) and you do NOT report abuse, you are held liable also for the repeated injuries of the victim.

kitten

I'm glad I took time to read the entire thread before posting. As I was reading, I was wondering the exact same thing, pixidustpet.

Having seen how the OP has called her daughter a 'prick teasing slut' on a forum, I also wonder if she's contributed to her daughter's low self esteem and subsequent behavior by calling her names like this face to face.

This is the most bizarre situation that I've read about in my short time here. The OP is rejecting any advice that might be useful because she seems to have a preconceived notion that this type of behavior is simply a 'learning curve' on the road to 'true submission'.

There's a lot of misplaced anger in her posts as well. JMO.

(in reply to pixidustpet)

RE: Young submission and its consequences - 8/9/2009 9:57:59 AM

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Best check a few UK laws before pontificating, I think it's clear that you are passing judgment ... and basing that on us law for that matter. It really makes me laugh how so many US citizens EXPECT foreigners to play by their rules all the time, now THAT ... ... is ignorant.

Pirate

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RE: Young submission and its consequences - 8/9/2009 10:00:19 AM

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You also have a duty of responsibility to report ths to the army anyway prinex. Clearly if hebeats women he has not yet turned his life around and is not ready for the responsibility that will be his. would not want a young man likthis anywhere near my unit. Having a criminal record in your past does not bar entry to the armed forces [with the excepton of major crimes] provided yocan demonstrates that you have matured ndlearntlessons from yomstakes. This man has done neither.

(in reply to Wyzardsgirl)

RE: Young submission and its consequences - 8/9/2009 10:02:35 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Wyzardsgirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: pixidustpet

prinsexx...

are there "mandatory report" laws in the UK? i'm asking because yes, i know you are a therapist, and here in the US if you are a person in authority (teacher, police officer, doctor, therapist) and you do NOT report abuse, you are held liable also for the repeated injuries of the victim.

kitten

I'm glad I took time to read the entire thread before posting. As I was reading, I was wondering the exact same thing, pixidustpet.

the laws vary from state to state, but as a general rule all persons of authority are required by law to report child abuse, be it physical, sexual or emotional.

A therapist can intervene on the behalf of a client who is of the age of consent if the client is willing to follow through with reporting abuse.

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RE: Young submission and its consequences - 8/9/2009 10:04:11 AM

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quote:

It really makes me laugh how so many US citizens EXPECT foreigners to play by their rules all the time, now THAT ... ... is ignorant.

how are we expecting that, Jonnie?

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