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RE: Scary facts about health care reform bill - 8/10/2009 9:59:27 AM

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so we are to trust someone who has ethical violations instead.

or someone hooked on drugs

or someone who dumps their responsibilities half way through completing them.

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RE: Scary facts about health care reform bill - 8/10/2009 10:37:35 AM

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yeah I have an obsession with her....im madly in love with her, she makes me drool both ends!! oh wait, I have a pussy phobia and a dick fetish sooooooo that aint it

Or is it that Im jealous of her, cos shes so hot and happy and has a wonderful life.....
that must be it cos im alone childless and miserable, or Im scared of what she can do to my country...... can she see Canada from her window??

Im such a sad sad person. woe is me
Its got nothing to do with her political views, opinions, lies, distortions, being a drama queen etc etc etc.
Lucy

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RE: Scary facts about health care reform bill - 8/10/2009 7:45:55 PM

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Great question Tazzy. Why won't Mr. Obama come out and defend his bill and debunk those who oppose his plan. ? Maybe he can't defend some of what is in it.

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RE: Scary facts about health care reform bill - 8/10/2009 7:56:04 PM

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have you bothered to read it yourself?

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Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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RE: Scary facts about health care reform bill - 8/10/2009 8:15:54 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

Great question Tazzy. Why won't Mr. Obama come out and defend his bill and debunk those who oppose his plan. ? Maybe he can't defend some of what is in it.

Oh good grief.

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RE: Scary facts about health care reform bill - 8/11/2009 7:53:38 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

Great question Tazzy. Why won't Mr. Obama come out and defend his bill and debunk those who oppose his plan. ? Maybe he can't defend some of what is in it.

Go here. WhiteHouse.gov/RealityCheck

tazzy.... great job in posting exactly what the wording in the bill says.
Granted it's not all that easy to interpret parts of it, but I fail to understand how the paranoids and angry naysayers have interpreted it all as a negative bill that will force the death of the old and infirm, remove care from those who need it most and take away choices and medical freedoms. Yes, I've read thru much of the bill and many of the pages cited in the arguments, and spent hours doing so. I didn't find nor interpret the wording as any of the scary stuff that the paranoids are claiming it says. Could it be that instead of reading and interpreting it for themselves, they're relying on hearsay, misinformation and scare tactics?

I stand as being oppossed to the bill, but not because of the misinformation and out right lies that the fearmongers are perpetuating, but simply because it doesn't go far enough in removing the medical insurance companies, pharmacueticals and big business hell bent on reaping mega profits from others misery from the health care equation.

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RE: Scary facts about health care reform bill - 8/11/2009 9:57:29 AM

Brain

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White House fires back at health care fictions

President Barack Obama fought back Monday against "scare tactics" aimed at derailing his drive to remake US health care, unleashing a battle-tested strategy adapted from his 2008 White House run.

Mon Aug 10, 11:02 am ET
WASHINGTON (AFP) – President Barack Obama fought back Monday against "scare tactics" aimed at derailing his drive to remake US health care, unleashing a battle-tested strategy adapted from his 2008 White House run.

Obama unveiled a new Internet site, www.whitehouse.gov/RealityCheck, inspired by his campaign's fightthesmears.com site, which countered rumors like the debunked but persistent claim that he was not born in the United States.

The move came as his Democratic allies alleged an orchestrated campaign of disinformation, including plots to disrupt lawmakers' "town hall" discussions on health care at home during the Congress's month-long August break.

"Drowning out opposing views is simply un-American. Drowning out the facts is how we failed at this task for decades," Democratic House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer wrote in USA Today.

Their comments came one day after Republican Senator Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, during an appearance on Fox News Channel, accused Democrats of trying "to demonize citizens who are energetic about this."

In an email message to supporters, senior White House adviser David Axelrod trumpeted the new site's "information and a number of online tools you can use to spread the truth among your family, friends and other social networks."

The website allows users to email every video and fact sheet, receive updates via social media like the Twitter micro-blogging site and Facebook, and tell the White House "what myths we should address next."

"Rumors and scare tactics have only increased as more people engage with the issue.

Given a lot of the outrageous claims floating around, it's time to make sure everyone knows the facts about the security and stability you get with health insurance reform," said Axelrod.

In one video, Obama domestic policy adviser Melody Barnes takes aim at claims that the sweeping overhaul includes a plan to drive the elderly into forced euthanasia.

The video includes remarks by Republican Representative Virginia Foxx that the Democratic plan could "put seniors in a position of being put to death by their government" -- a charge frequently echoed among foes of the legislation.

From behind the desk of her West Wing office, Barnes directs viewers to the relevant section of the bill, says it would allow people to get advice on such issues as "living wills," and underlines there is "nothing mandatory."

The battle over health care was not expected to ease when lawmakers return in September, with Democrats battling to meet Obama's deadline of enacting an overhaul by the end of the year.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20090810/ts_alt_afp/uspoliticshealthwhouse_20090810150301

quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

Great question Tazzy. Why won't Mr. Obama come out and defend his bill and debunk those who oppose his plan. ? Maybe he can't defend some of what is in it.

(in reply to servantforuse)

RE: Scary facts about health care reform bill - 8/11/2009 11:59:21 AM

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Just saw this on drudge -

OBAMA 'UPS and FedEx are doing just fine. It's the Post Office that's always having problems'... Developing...

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RE: Scary facts about health care reform bill - 8/11/2009 12:53:40 PM

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Thank you Master Anarrus

its mind boggling how people just assume everything they are told is "true", especially when it comes to politics. but, as you can see on the boards, that is what is happening. im struggling to read through the 1000 pages... but i am determined to do just that.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Anarrus)

RE: Scary facts about health care reform bill - 8/11/2009 1:01:25 PM

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Know what is scary? I just got back from a trip to Northern Wisconsin, and the radio is full of people making statements listed below. I heard this sadly as i drove through the night with a busted CD player and was forced to listen to very conservative radio

"Do you love your parents and grandparents, with O'bama's new health reform they will be left to die unless you call your congressmen and tell them you oppose it"

"do you have health insurance now?? Soon the government will be in control and you will wait at least a year to see your DR"

"almost every hospital in Wisconsin will be closed, because they ill be waiting for answers from the government on how to treat patients"

It was sad listening to this crap, and people where calling in crying about not wanting their parents to die because they will not have health care, even though most have medicare.

As for the cash for clunkers, this one I could not believe. There was an AD from a car dealer, saying how our government is wasting your tax dollars giving it to everyone to buy new cars and how wrong it was and how wasteful Obama is with your tax dollars. He is the worst thing to happen to this country....... But if you are going to get a new car, spend your 4500 here, at least the money will support a conserative car dealer.

They slammed the program and Obama for about 45 seconds, then in the last 15 asked people to spend the money from the government with them. Give me a break

(in reply to tazzygirl)

RE: Scary facts about health care reform bill - 8/11/2009 3:14:05 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Acer49
O.K. folks - I 'think' this will 'shake us up' - read and listen to the Interview - if THIS does not cause every red-blooded American to contact their Representative, I don't know what will!! It's time for ACTION! Americans!! Both Democrats and Republicans beware.

(If this doesn't make your blood boil........... nothing will!!)
Page 425 of Health Care Bill - Listen to this interview Fred Thompson's Radio Show interviewing Betsy McCaughey (pronounced Mc Coy).

On page 425 it says in black and white that EVERYONE on Social Security , (will include all Senior Citizens and SSI people) will go to MAND ATORY counseling every 5 years to learn and to choose from ways to end your suffering (and your life). Health care will be denied based on age.. 500 Billion will be cut from Seniors healthcare. The only way for that to happen is to drastically cut health care, the oldest and the sickest will be cut first. Paying for your own care will not be an option.

Wow. Fear-mongering propaganda can be fun, hmmm? That is until people actually read that page and prove you wrong so effortlessly.

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RE: Scary facts about health care reform bill - 8/11/2009 3:15:35 PM

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i stopped after 5 or 6, i could go through the whole list if anyone is interested.

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Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Loki45)

RE: Scary facts about health care reform bill - 8/11/2009 3:20:23 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

i stopped after 5 or 6, i could go through the whole list if anyone is interested.

Not necessary. Don't waste your time. If one bogus, fear-mongering statement is proven wrong, I'm sure they're all wrong. I've been listening to things like this on talk radio for the last three nights while at work. I love how the opponents keep mentioning the 'death panel' who will decide care, but they conveniently forget that insurance companies are already doing that, except instead of using medical professionals who know and practice medicine, they use middle-management insurance guys whose goal is to spend as little as possible.

We had an incident here a couple of years ago where a lady's young son needed cochlear implants and a hearing aid to live a normal life. The middle-manager in the insurance company paid for the implants, but refused to pay for the corresponding hearing aid. Apparently he didn't feel it was 'necessary.' Of course that changed when our local news investigated and splashed the story all over the nightly news. Funny how that works.

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RE: Scary facts about health care reform bill - 8/11/2009 3:51:12 PM

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If you think "rationing" and "end of life counseling" are scare tactics and lies, you are hiding your head in the sand. That is the only way that costs savings can be wrung out of the system.

Oregon's state health plan offers to pay for euthanasia but not a cancer drug

That is exactly what health care will look like under the Obama plan. That her insurance company wouldnt pay for it either is irrelevant.... the guidelines that the insurance company set are exactly the kinds of standards that Obamacare will set. And remember his response when asked about the pacemaker that a 100 year old woman received, and whether individual circumstances would be possible under Obamacare : (paraphrasing) 'Well, we as a culture and a society will have to make some tough decisions, and maybe tell her that she shouldnt have the surgery,and just take the painkiller".

I.e. a government bureaucrat or computer program will decide who is eligible for what treatments that are available. As Ive said before, what we have now is "rationing by consultation between patient, family, doctor", and that woman got her pacemaker after that consultation. She wouldnt have gotten it under Obamacare's "universal rationing".

(in reply to Loki45)

RE: Scary facts about health care reform bill - 8/11/2009 3:54:13 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy
If you think "rationing" and "end of life counseling" are scare tactics and lies, you are hiding your head in the sand. That is the only way that costs savings can be wrung out of the system.

How's your tinfoil hat fitting? Good?

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"'Till the roof comes off, 'till the lights go out
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RE: Scary facts about health care reform bill - 8/11/2009 4:03:34 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Loki45

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy
If you think "rationing" and "end of life counseling" are scare tactics and lies, you are hiding your head in the sand. That is the only way that costs savings can be wrung out of the system.

How's your tinfoil hat fitting? Good?

With your head buried in the sand you arent one to comment.

(in reply to Loki45)

RE: Scary facts about health care reform bill - 8/11/2009 4:22:48 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy
With your head buried in the sand you arent one to comment.

Sometimes the sand is the safest place when the air is filled with the kind of bullshit lies your side likes to toss around with a straight face. I don't think of it as burying my head in the sand. I prefer to see it as taking cover from an avalanche of bullshit.

< Message edited by Loki45 -- 8/11/2009 4:23:20 PM >

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RE: Scary facts about health care reform bill - 8/11/2009 4:45:35 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

If you think "rationing" and "end of life counseling" are scare tactics and lies, you are hiding your head in the sand. That is the only way that costs savings can be wrung out of the system.

Oregon's state health plan offers to pay for euthanasia but not a cancer drug

That is exactly what health care will look like under the Obama plan. That her insurance company wouldnt pay for it either is irrelevant.... the guidelines that the insurance company set are exactly the kinds of standards that Obamacare will set. And remember his response when asked about the pacemaker that a 100 year old woman received, and whether individual circumstances would be possible under Obamacare : (paraphrasing) 'Well, we as a culture and a society will have to make some tough decisions, and maybe tell her that she shouldnt have the surgery,and just take the painkiller".

I.e. a government bureaucrat or computer program will decide who is eligible for what treatments that are available. As Ive said before, what we have now is "rationing by consultation between patient, family, doctor", and that woman got her pacemaker after that consultation. She wouldnt have gotten it under Obamacare's "universal rationing".

By any rational standard the drug in question is ineffective. Simply put the study with this drug failed to show a statistically significant change in outcomes. Why should any health plan, private or public, pay $4000 a month for a drug that can't be shown to do anything?

Oregon's plan has a 5 year 5% rule. IOW the plan pays for any treatment that can be shown to increase survival by 5% after 5 years. I'm sure some will quibble about this standard but as a mathematician I can tell you that is the bare minimum for proof that a drug or treatment actually results in better outcomes for less common conditions that therefore have a small statistical universe.

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RE: Scary facts about health care reform bill - 8/11/2009 4:49:25 PM

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Advance directives and health care power of attorney, and Do Not Resuscitate orders have been around for years and years... a requirement of every hospital to discuss them with a patient... now.. suddenly because the Dr's will be paid to do so every 5 years, its a death panel?

American Academy of Family Physicians

Reviewed/Updated: 01/09
Created: 09/00

http://familydoctor.org/online/famdocen/home/pat-advocacy/endoflife/003.html

That link explains just what Dr's will tell their patients... its the same thing nurses tell them now.

The living will is the oldest form of advance directive. It was first proposed by an Illinois attorney, Louis Kutner, in a law journal in 1969.[

Living wills proved to be very popular, and by 2007, 41% of Americans had completed a living will.[23] In response to public needs, state legislatures soon passed laws in support of living wills in virtually every state in the union.[24]

However, by the late 1980s public advocacy groups became aware that many people remained unaware of advance directives[25] and even fewer actually completed them.[26][27] In part, this was seen as a failure of health care providers and medical organizations to promote and support the use of these documents.[28] The public’s response was to press for further legislative support. The most recent result was the Patient Self-Determination Act of 1990,[29] which attempted to address this awareness problem by requiring health care institutions to better promote and support the use of advance directives.[24][30]

However, as living wills began to better recognized, key deficits were soon discovered. Most living wills tended to be limited in scope[31] and often failed to fully address presenting problems and needs.[32][33] Further, many individuals wrote out their wishes in ways that might conflict with quality medical practice.[34] Ultimately, it was determined that a living will alone might be insufficient to address many important health care decisions. This led to the development of what some have called “second generation” advance directives[31] – the “health care proxy appointment” or “medical power of attorney.”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Living_will

pull your head out of the sand, willbe, an try actually reading up on some things. there is no death panel... this isnt anything new... its been around for years.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)

RE: Scary facts about health care reform bill - 8/11/2009 5:00:44 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

If you think "rationing" and "end of life counseling" are scare tactics and lies, you are hiding your head in the sand. That is the only way that costs savings can be wrung out of the system.

Oregon's state health plan offers to pay for euthanasia but not a cancer drug

That is exactly what health care will look like under the Obama plan. That her insurance company wouldnt pay for it either is irrelevant.... the guidelines that the insurance company set are exactly the kinds of standards that Obamacare will set. And remember his response when asked about the pacemaker that a 100 year old woman received, and whether individual circumstances would be possible under Obamacare : (paraphrasing) 'Well, we as a culture and a society will have to make some tough decisions, and maybe tell her that she shouldnt have the surgery,and just take the painkiller".

I.e. a government bureaucrat or computer program will decide who is eligible for what treatments that are available. As Ive said before, what we have now is "rationing by consultation between patient, family, doctor", and that woman got her pacemaker after that consultation. She wouldnt have gotten it under Obamacare's "universal rationing".

Its laughable that you dont criticise the insurance companies. Lets say under the new proposals neither scheme will pay for this drug ( and lets not forget thats only your assertion ) The fact still remains that everyone in the US will get basic healthcare.

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)

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