RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OLD TOPIC, "TRIBUTE".....

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RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OL... - 8/13/2009 10:45:15 PM

Posts: 1511
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GloriousMorning,

quote:

Granted these aren't cars or vacations, but I've been the recipient of many gifts, from clothes, to jewelry, and lots and lots of boots. However, it still remains that the best and most valued gifts I have ever received were those that were made with the very hands that presented them to me.

Gifts don't need to be expensive to give joy. Even giving someone a cupcake is a "sweet" enough gesture to show that someone cares. I find gifts in the small things. Little kisses and "I love you's", following through with promises and commitments, offering assistance/service, phone calls, and lil notes tucked into books... these things mean way more to me than money could buy.

Lots of boots eh? You don't say! :-) There's really not much more I can add to what you've written because it all resonates with me. And I agree with you about cupcakes. Someone, out of the blue, once gave me a cupcake and it was a most special, meaningful, and cherished surprise.

Elan.

(in reply to GloriousMorning)

RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OL... - 8/13/2009 11:05:56 PM

Posts: 1511
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undergroundsea,

quote:

The title in caps and some of the language in the thread did not resonate well with me. While the description speaks of generosity of spirit, it is overshadowed by material references. I think a different choice of words would have delivered a different message. What if the thread was titled: He Cherishes me So? And what if instead of the negative talk, there was simply talk of happiness the OP felt?

In this single, short paragraph you've addressed all the things that didn't sit well with me. Now that I have a better understanding of what I believe the intent of the OP was, it is simply the delivery mechanism (i.e. word choice and approach) that threw me.

quote:

Imagining what would happen if a sub made a post about what he considers a cadillac domme and told dommes that that is how it is done provides additional perspective to this thread.

By George I think he's got it! :-)

Side note: While I didn't quote your entire post, I really liked how you brought together various perspectives from people with differing views, illuminating useful bits of insight in each. You were able to bring harmony where there was initially disagreement and discord. That's quite a talent. You have a great ability to listen, understand, and empathize with others. I admire how you're always able to invite people to participate in discussion, leaving all with dignity (even those whose point of view you don't necessarily agree with). You'd make a fantastic facilitator Sea. It's a pleasure to watch and learn from your communication skills.

Elan.

< Message edited by ElanSubdued -- 8/13/2009 11:08:01 PM >

(in reply to undergroundsea)

RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OL... - 8/13/2009 11:21:11 PM

Posts: 1511
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Akasha,

quote:

I can't believe how cheap sub guys are. Seriously. And that you cheap ones defend it so passionately just because you don't want to get ripped off. How sad for the woman that comes along and may take interest in you, but realizes you are cheap and a tightwad, and she goes on to someone who is happy to take her out to dinner and a show, or send her flowers, or send a card -- vs. those that only do such a thing when they feel their investment will pay back.

For brevity, I only quoted this part of your post, but really I'd have liked to quote the entire thing. The views you're expressing here aren't in any way supported by my real life experiences and I think they're just reinforcing online stereotypes. In real life, I've yet to meet kinky people (dominants, submissives, and the rest of the gamut) who don't have a grasp on courtship and on doing nice things for their partners. Sure, I've met people who are lousy at courtship, lousy communicators, lousy initiators, etc. I've met the inverse too - people who are adept at one or more of these things. My point is this isn't the domain of submissive men. This is people in general. We each have our various strengths and weaknesses.

Elan.

(in reply to AAkasha)

RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OL... - 8/13/2009 11:32:17 PM

Posts: 2492
Joined: 1/25/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: pyroaquatic
and picking up a coffee bill is no problem for me. I would rather do it just because I want to not because it is expected of me. I highly dislike peoples expectations of me. I tend to disappoint them. I fall into the category of poor college kid...

Expect nothing from me and I will give you my world. I don't expect anything from anyone.

Back when I was looking, I didn't exactly *expect* the men I dated to pay for dinner or coffee, but it was a plus, just like holding the door or otherwise being gentlemanly was. You don't generally come across as whiny or dick-obsessed, but focusing that much on not spending any money may indeed limit your options. Personally, if I were looking, I'd be much more concerned about your having trouble with keeping friends. It's important to me that any guy I'm with is able to make and keep friends of his own, and get along reasonably well with most of my friends.

Peon, Bute doesn't generally come in pills. Squirting three tubes of bute paste into the Domme's mouth probably would get a pretty dreadful reaction! (It also comes in a powder, or is injectable).

VanIsleKnight, presents depend on the person of course, but it's lovely when someone gets me a single rose, even if it's from 7-11 or some free wildflowers from the side of the road, or a chocolate truffle or two, or something handmade, or a book I've mentioned I haven't had a chance to read yet, etc. It needn't be expensive, and I like giving little things to my partner as well!

sea, I've given little presents, treated them to a special dinner for birthdays/etc., given massages and whatnot, and otherwise pampered them in ways they enjoyed.

GoDolphins, most male Dominants also treat for dinner/coffee/etc., and fairly frequently buy small gifts for their submissive, although they certainly don't call it tribute! *giggling* As to vanilla vs. D/s relationships, I haven't been in a vanilla relationship in 15 years, but I don't have a D/s relationship with someone unless I'm also his girlfriend, and I expect him to treat me that way and interact with me on non-kinky levels as well. I've bought most of my toys myself.

funnyegg, sure, that's true of *some* femdoms, but not all, and probably not even most.

Elan, generally speaking, if a guy can't or won't treat me at least as well as my gay friends do, it seems pretty pointless to get involved with him! I agree that this kind of behaviour isn't limited to submissive or bottom men, although the last time I was looking, I had much better responses from top-type or switch guys for some reason.

< Message edited by Andalusite -- 8/14/2009 12:00:43 AM >

(in reply to pyroaquatic)

RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OL... - 8/14/2009 2:55:55 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Venatrix

In my case, I find coffee so vile, you'd have to pay me to drink it.

Ma`am, I would gladly drink your coffee for you, as tribute. Tea though, is a hard limit.

(in reply to Venatrix)

RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OL... - 8/14/2009 5:52:25 AM

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Joined: 10/11/2006
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20 orgasms and a new car. Holy hell. It almost sounds too good to be true.

The question is, would you still love him and play with him if he didn't give you all those objects? Because to me, as a Domme, my first thought was, well I guess she's lucky her sub is wealthy enough to buy her so many presents, but what does that have to do with kink?

I prefer to treat my pets as pets. I like spoiling them, buying them presents, sending them off to fetch drinks I've paid for. I like being the one in financial control. I'd never, ever let myself get into a position where I was financially dependent on a sub nor would I demand gifts or presents in exchange for play.

The play is all the reward I need.

(in reply to TexasMaam)

RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OL... - 8/14/2009 6:08:03 AM

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Ellen, I am firmly convinced your initial reaction and response were product of both intellect and intelligence. I believe you read printed words but looked into deeper content of the writer.
A.Lincoln, “You can fool some of the people all the time, all the people some of the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time.”

(in reply to ElanSubdued)

RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OL... - 8/14/2009 6:34:52 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: Venatrix

In my case, I find coffee so vile, you'd have to pay me to drink it.

Ma`am, I would gladly drink your coffee for you, as tribute. Tea though, is a hard limit.

PS, you've got yourself a deal. Just so long as you drink it in a hermetically sealed room, and don't come within 10 metres of me afterwards without having first brushed your teeth.

(in reply to Politesub53)

RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OL... - 8/14/2009 6:50:56 AM

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Joined: 11/28/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ElanSubdued

Akasha,

quote:

I can't believe how cheap sub guys are. Seriously. And that you cheap ones defend it so passionately just because you don't want to get ripped off. How sad for the woman that comes along and may take interest in you, but realizes you are cheap and a tightwad, and she goes on to someone who is happy to take her out to dinner and a show, or send her flowers, or send a card -- vs. those that only do such a thing when they feel their investment will pay back.

For brevity, I only quoted this part of your post, but really I'd have liked to quote the entire thing. The views you're expressing here aren't in any way supported by my real life experiences and I think they're just reinforcing online stereotypes. In real life, I've yet to meet kinky people (dominants, submissives, and the rest of the gamut) who don't have a grasp on courtship and on doing nice things for their partners. Sure, I've met people who are lousy at courtship, lousy communicators, lousy initiators, etc. I've met the inverse too - people who are adept at one or more of these things. My point is this isn't the domain of submissive men. This is people in general. We each have our various strengths and weaknesses.

Elan.

Elan, I'm happy for you that that bit of Akasha's post didn't resonate with you. Unfortunately, it sure resonated with me. The cheapest men I've ever met are the ones who identify as submissive. These are the guys who keep track of EVERY penny they've spent so that they can make sure I reimburse them for EXACTLY half of it. Yet these are the same men who have never once offered to contribute to the cost of my toys (whilst offering no toys of their own to play with), fetish wear, the food and drink that I provide when they come over and so on. When I've finished playing with someone, I want to experience that soaring feeling of power and control, not that I went out with an accountant complete with calculator and balance sheet.

If we're going to reduce this topic to how much people spend on each other, let me tell you that I've spent far more on men than they've ever spent on me, and it's the worst investment I've ever made. I've met some lovely men, who, for one reason or other haven't worked out, but the creeps far outnumber them. There's a reason why I no longer have any interest in men. If men want to find out why that is, I suggest they take a good look at themselves.

Edited to add: And no, Elan, it's not just "people." Vanilla men are much less likely to be like this. Frankly, it isn't the women who are making d/s feel like a business transaction, it's the guys.

< Message edited by Venatrix -- 8/14/2009 6:55:45 AM >

(in reply to ElanSubdued)

RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OL... - 8/14/2009 6:54:51 AM

Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: undergroundsea

Would you say that a man who has invested in toys or clothes should be compensated for it by his play partners?

It's not a gender thing for me or even an orientation thing, so why not?

When he allowed me to work, I bought Himself all kinds of stuff including cock-rings, ball stretchers and parachutes that can never be used on me (don't have the right dangly's after all) but that he can use on male subs. I don't see the problem with it at all. Every time I go to California, he has me go to LeatherMasters to pick up some tidbit or other. Non-issue here. My putting it on my own credit card wasn't an issue either. Every time this man has me in bondage, it means I've put my life in his hands .. and my life means a whole lot more to me than my ATM card. I trust him with both.

quote:

If you do not think a man in this situation should accept tribute then we agree. However, then the principle which you attribute to your friend does not universally hold.

Well, we don't agree then. I don't see a problem at all with a man or a woman demanding tribute. Demanding is not getting. Himself accepts and demands tributes from me all the time.. usually, that's in the form of service - doing his laundry, going shopping for Christmas gifts for his employees, researching some obscure fact as well as tangible, useable gifts that will be of no value to me personally other than the fact it makes him happy to have them and I like seeing him happy. Lots of male doms demand cock worship or that their females go out and buy sexy outfits and things of that nature. I don't see a big difference between male and female dominants here .. just in the sorts of things that they, generally, want or demand, not that they want or demand those things.

I'm cool agreeing to disagree though. Life is more interesting when there is diversity. I do hope, though, that you will consider my responses fair-minded because, you know what, a submissive male can want things and make demands, too, and I'm cool with that as well. But, as I said, demanding is not getting .. for anyone. I never meant to put forth the idea that what I've said holds as some universal truth. It doesn't, but, I think it is fair-minded .. and that's what you said you never had in the way of responses.

quote:

For the most part, I have encountered good people. When I have encountered a person who I felt was selfish, I backed away.

That's wise.

I think, too often, people do not realize that when they are generous, giving and all around awesome, they deserve to have that in their counter-parts. Male or female, sub or dom really has very little to do with it. That said, lots of folks are willing to settle for less often because they're not patient enough to wait so get desperate and then feel they have no choice but to meet demands that they don't really want to meet, so they pay in some way that comes from desperation rather than from the heart. That's on them, though. They do have a choice. That's just taking personal responsibility for yourself. If someone is not adult enough to be patient, maybe they should rethink being involved in wiitwd.

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."

(in reply to undergroundsea)

RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OL... - 8/14/2009 7:38:59 AM

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Joined: 8/4/2009
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quote:

On the other hand, I know exactly the sort of man whose eyes will light up at seeing the line "some generousity of the pocket reflects generousity of the soul".

Scientologists?

*edit*

Reading through all of this, I think I'm just going to keep doing what I normally do when it comes to gifts/presents/whatever. Give them when I want to give them, specifically because I want to give them. =) I still know that I won't look into anyone that expects tribute up front, but the word is just that. A word, and one that has this strange definition on something I've been doing anyways.

*edit again Thought about it. Tribute just seems to have negativity associated with it. I also think that the perceived differences in relationships between men and women from BDSM and "vanilla" can do more harm then good in some cases. It's still two human beings.

*yawns* It's too early for me to be philosophical/thinky. I need a shower and breakfast.

< Message edited by VanIsleKnight -- 8/14/2009 8:01:16 AM >

_____________________________

Apologies for what you feel might be a spelling error. I'm Canadian.

(in reply to PeonForHer)

RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OL... - 8/14/2009 7:47:31 AM

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Peon, No my post was not directed at you. Though if the shoe fits.

Myself, I cannot even imagine even thinking about demanding any sort of material anything, from someone I was considering. (Aside from living expenses if they live with me) But I have used it to chase off persistent male s-types that are convinced I am interesting in their services. (example:"what difference does it make if it is a man's tongue or a woman's tongue in your ass?"). Knowing that most guys run like the wind at the mention of spending money for no sexual return.

And yes you could see it as I am ranting about ranting, ironic eh? But that is not my intent at all. If so, I would be ranting about all the whining males that cannot find their perfect dominant woman, when the reality is, most of those doing the whining haven't got a submissive bone in their body. Just one kinky bone.

My point is, MOST lifestyle dominant women do NOT ask for any sort of material "tribute". At least not those I know. However, a male submissive that appears to obsess about that aspect and rant on and on about it, makes himself appear less than attractive because of his constant ranting about it. It make him appear cheap, like he is expecting everything for nothing. EVEN if that is not the case. I never said you, or any of the other guys were cheap, just saying that the constant fussing about the subject, sometimes makes you look that way. You are so obsessed with seeing the issue through your own green coloured glasses, you entirely missed my point.

There is a difference.

As for vanilla dating. If you think dating vanilla will remove the whole tribute factor, good luck with that. The ONLY difference, and baby I know LOTS of hetro vanilla women, is that the dominant women are sometimes more honest about it. The vanilla just use stealth. You are not going to escape the issue, just the forthright demand.

As for my own personal opinion. It doesn't matter. If a woman is honest about her expectations and a man is willing to fork it out, more power to her. It has been part of humanity since the beginning.

There have been great courtesans since the beginning of time. Some were very powerful women that rose above the gender limitations of their time to have great influence on the men in their lives and the world around them. Some used their power for good and others, less so. Regardless, if an adult man is going to submit to a woman, he is responsible for making that choice. It takes two. (or more)

That all being said, it's not something I have ever done, or ever see myself doing. I've worked to provide for myself and those in my care since I was 13. I've always been obstinate like that. Always wanted to make sure I was paying my own way, not needing anyone else. Those are MY issues. I continue to work hard to avoid projecting them on others. In the past, my views on financial female dominants were less than flattering because of MY issues, not theirs.

So, my reading of threads like these, was more an exercise in learning and becoming more tolerant and understanding of the practice.

It has been during this self imposed learning process, that I realized that my opinion of the men that constantly bashed, was becoming more negative. I looked at it and thought I would share that outlook, for the men's benefit. Thinking that they, with a little self introspection, could realize that they are just shooting themself in the foot. Because, as I said, I really have no stake in this one way or another.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to PeonForHer)

RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OL... - 8/14/2009 7:55:49 AM

Posts: 1535
Joined: 12/4/2006
From: Pyroaquatica
Status: offline

You may have no stake in the matter but you (and others that have replied on this topic) have enlightened me.

And for this I am grateful.

From what I understand so far...

Gifts from the heart without any sort of string attached are the best way to see tribute. Not any random gift either, but something that the s-type has observed about his Domme. Something that will appeal to her idiosyncrasies... like Lockit's paper and pen gift...

or...

a hand-made toy.

or...

a song.

When giving a gift, simplicity is best and it does not have to be a big fancy expensive thing.

I see no difference between the vanilla world and this one. I never have.

_____________________________

You are what your deep, driving desire is.
As your desire is, so is your will.
As your will is, so is your deed.
As your deed is, so is your destiny.
-Brihadaranyaka Upanishad IV.4.5

(in reply to LaTigresse)

RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OL... - 8/14/2009 8:06:45 AM

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Pyro, I think you just discovered a very important key.

You are a sweetheart. I think some lady will be very lucky to find you.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to pyroaquatic)

RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OL... - 8/14/2009 8:11:41 AM

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Joined: 1/25/2009
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Pyro, I'd say that's generally right. There are exceptions, including some (but not all, by any means) pro/tribute/money Dommes who do have specific demands. I've also heard of a few women using the term to screen out men (either in a "does he jump to conclusions or ask me what I mean by it?" way, or discouraging men they aren't interested in). Personally, when I was looking, one guy offered to buy me stuff in exchange for cybering with him. I was *very* offended, and turned him down. If a guy had tried to give me something very expensive within the first couple of dates (ie. jewelry or BDSM toys), I probably would have not only refused the gift, but been wary of continuing to date him for fear he was trying to make it commercial. Like I mentioned on a different thread, I *do* like generous men, in the sense of not being stingy, guys who are willing to contribute time or money to causes they believe in, etc., but the term has been used too often as a euphemism for "give me money!" here. I personally haven't used "tribute" in any way, but the "don't expect me to buy you a cup of coffee or hold the door open for you" guys do come across rather strange!

(in reply to pyroaquatic)

RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OL... - 8/14/2009 9:28:21 AM

Posts: 166
Joined: 2/17/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

Why am I telling you this? Because while more than half of vanilla guys "get it" and do it anyway, most subs don't, unless they are TOLD.

Where are the guys that actually enjoy the process of giving, of courting, of romancing?

Two germane questions that fully encapsulate much of the whining we see on these threads. I personally don't think the usual suspects are ever going to reform, but it's critical that newcomers looking for wisdom on this subject don't see the opinions of these men as the accepted norm. I sometimes question the actual experience more than half of the usual responders—who would establish themselves as "authorities" or "voices of reason" here actually have in serving or maintaining relationships with the opposite sex in general.

_____________________________

S a h a r a h E v e . c o m

Do your own homework. Write your own stuff.

(in reply to AAkasha)

RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OL... - 8/14/2009 9:41:48 AM

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Yep, you seem to be getting the hang of things.

In all honesty, the most important gift someone could give me is time. So, someone willing to take things off of my to-do list, without doing it on a balance-sheet basis (e.g., okay, I did one task for her, so that should get me ten strokes of the whip), will find he gets a lot more out of me - freely given - when I determine the time is right. Isn't that what a good relationship is about? You do things for me because you care for me, and I do the same for you?

But this tit-for-tat business drives me up the bloody wall.

(in reply to pyroaquatic)

RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OL... - 8/14/2009 9:43:24 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

[M]ost of those doing the whining haven't got a submissive bone in their body. Just one kinky bone.

I believe, LaT, that you meant to say "one kinky boner."

(in reply to LaTigresse)

RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OL... - 8/14/2009 9:50:16 AM

Posts: 1535
Joined: 12/4/2006
From: Pyroaquatica
Status: offline

Maybe a pat on the head and a "Good Boy" would do.

That and a continued relationship that is has connections deeper than... lets say... a teaspoon of water.

_____________________________

You are what your deep, driving desire is.
As your desire is, so is your will.
As your will is, so is your deed.
As your deed is, so is your destiny.
-Brihadaranyaka Upanishad IV.4.5

(in reply to Venatrix)

RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OL... - 8/14/2009 10:04:28 AM

Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Venatrix

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

[M]ost of those doing the whining haven't got a submissive bone in their body. Just one kinky bone.

I believe, LaT, that you meant to say "one kinky boner."

You got me, that was my insinuation.

And yes, I agree, time is just about the best gift. If I had someone that could do even HALF of my stuff around the farm so that I could spend more time working horses, writing, going through old photos and documents I've been scanning (or even actually doing some of this!), painting, sculpting, etc etc etc......that would be heaven.

Of course, buying me a new tractor would give me lots more time also!!

< Message edited by LaTigresse -- 8/14/2009 10:12:50 AM >

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to Venatrix)

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