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RE: The one month rule. How many could do it? - 8/18/2009 1:42:29 PM   
DavanKael


Posts: 3072
Joined: 10/6/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

Just to give you a clearer view into the other perspective NZ, in my case it wouldn't be due to prudishness. It would be becaue the topic of sexuality just isn't that important to me. In my mind, if we have a compatible love affair, the sex will follow. Conversely, if the love affair isn't there, then... well... ewwwwww. So it's really just a question of putting the cart before the horse.

Anyone who thought the horse went first wouldn't be wrong, they'd just not have a compatible set of priorities to mine.


It's not even just the sexuality for me (which, admittedly, is huge) but the fact that the power exchange dynamic is such a natural fit for the way I am in relationships. A good chunk of my relationship history, ironically, was precisely an unintentional version of what the OP suggests. I'd meet someone and develop a mutual enjoyment of company and personality and then, inevitably, my PE tendencies would pop up and cause issues with a relationship that, by then, was an attempt to steer things into a different interaction style.

To some folks, perhaps the extensions of WIITWD are the equivalent of whether they prefer eggs or pancakes for breakfast and isn't that big a part of their natural relationship-persona, but to me it's a major mutual goal and if we're not both facing the same direction from the get-go, complications are much more likely to arise.


Had to take particular note of this as it was you guys commenting.  :>  Hi and < hugs >!  :> 
Something Andalucite said on the previous page also struck me as highly relevant: the whole transitioning from friends to partners reference. 
I feel far more safe if I know someone as a friend before a relationship occurs, however I must admit that that doesn't always mean that the outcome is going to be any more positive than if they weren't, it's just a visceral grooving with of energy thing for me. 
I can also be the Queen of Clueless sometimes when I am being hit on
and also know that some men (and women) have taken my willingness to speak freely about sex as expressions of interest or intent when they may or may not be. 
A major difference I think I am seeing between what each of you is saying (That wasn't really highlighted) is the difference in the way dynamics present:
Jeff, you seem to be saying that dynamics present themselves and that is able to be ironed out if the relationship matters. 
NZ, you seem to be saying that when the shift to relational status changes so to do the presentation of power dynamics and that sometimes derails the relationship. 
I think this is a pretty pivotal experiential difference. 
And, on a very baseline level, some people just aren't okay with certain sex acts and the ways they handle those can be really telling: I spoke with a guy, went out with him once, no chemistry or physical attraction from my perspective toward him but he seemed like buddy material.  We went on talking for a bit.  I thought that my lack of interest sexually in him was relatively clear but apparently, he was still pondering an aspect I mention in my profile and asked how important it was to me.  Now, for love, I'm pretty crazy flexible in terms of actual acts but that was not and would never be the case there and I told him that, as a general answer, mine would be: pretty freakin' important.  That was rather tidy as he didn't like the idea of my having my way with him in said fashion 'cause neither did I.  But, from his angle, had I dug my heels in were a relationship a potential, that would have been a deal-breaker despite his interest.  And, he went out of his way to say that he'd 'blocked out' asking about said interest for quite some time which showed me a lack of acceptance of me as well as an anti-relational proclivity toward playing ostrich. 
It's a difficult thing, this interjection of dynamics and lifestyle piece. 
I find I like situations where dynamics naturally happen between people and I believe there are power dynamics at play in every reaction.  I understand, too, though that some people would and do freak out when such things increase in intensity and the like. 
This is an interesting topic and I am sleepy and babbling. 
  Davan

_____________________________

May you live as long as you wish & love as long as you live
-Robert A Heinlein

It's about the person & the bond,not the bondage
-Me

Waiting is

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RE: The one month rule. How many could do it? - 8/18/2009 1:48:48 PM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline 		Sex together with kink, disabilities together with expectations from both sides are discussed prior to someone being given a probationary collar. I need to know first up if the dynamic will be service only, service and BDSM, service and sex or service, BDSM and sex. Whilst sex is somewhere near the bottom of my priorities due to ED aka FDS.  BDSM certainly is one of the more important aspects but has it's place below service. Similarly, I'd want to know if the slave was bisexual, bi-curious or straight. Having said that, during the probationary period the focus is 100% on service and protocols with kink being looked at once the probationer has earned the right to participate in BDSM pleasures/kink. Ideally, we would prefer the third and even a fourth human member of our home to part of a long term relationship with Neets and I. 

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RE: The one month rule. How many could do it? - 8/18/2009 3:18:08 PM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
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quote:

The mysteriously veiled slave/switch/whatever said:
Jeff, you seem to be saying that dynamics present themselves and that is able to be ironed out if the relationship matters.
NZ, you seem to be saying that when the shift to relational status changes so to do the presentation of power dynamics and that sometimes derails the relationship.

I think that's an astute point. In general, I approach life in a "let's work this out" sort of mode. In general, it is my opinion that if both parties in anything are actually seeking a win/win, then it's almost certainly there to be found. In fact, the entire thing with Carol goes on that way. We kind of committed to TPE... or at least said, "Yeah, let's give that a go". But the actual path is one step at a time... we're working it out. One of the ways we work it out might well be to not do TPE. Somewhere between Carol & I, there will be more than enough common ground for everyone to win.

Heh... and now that I think of it... that gets back to what I really care about... "people's ability to actually work it out when it's not going well". In my eyes, give me that one attribute and the rest is a cakewalk. And, just like NZ in the areas that he thinks are going to be hardest to find or most problematic, I'm pretty inflexible on that.

quote:

I find I like situations where dynamics naturally happen between people and I believe there are power dynamics at play in every reaction. I understand, too, though that some people would and do freak out when such things increase in intensity and the like.
OK, so this is totally theoretical since I've never tried to go find a sub, but the way I've imagind it is that assuming the woman is sub at all (latent or expressed), I'm not too worried about taking her from wherever she is to where I want her to be. That's just a test of my leadership abilities and I have boundless faith in that.

quote:

Ironbear who hates spiders also said
Sex together with kink, disabilities together with expectations from both sides are discussed prior to someone being given a probationary collar. I need to know first up if the dynamic will be service only, service and BDSM, service and sex or service, BDSM and sex.
Which got me to thinking.... the questions he's asking himself I would be asking about marriage. Again, he and I are using an identical strategy, but with different prioties and objectives behind it. It's very definitely true that BDSM is not the core of a relationship to me. Any woman I was in an intimate relationship with at all would be a life partner first, a sub/slave/whatever second. I have to assume this is an artifact of coming to BDSM late in life and getting my first (and hopefully last) slave in a vanilla->bdsm transition.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

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RE: The one month rule. How many could do it? - 8/18/2009 3:51:35 PM   
Prinsexx


Posts: 4584
Joined: 8/27/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DavanKael

I feel far more safe if I know someone as a friend before a relationship occurs, however I must admit that that doesn't always mean that the outcome is going to be any more positive than if they weren't, it's just a visceral grooving with of energy thing for me. 
...............
I find I like situations where dynamics naturally happen between people and I believe there are power dynamics at play in every reaction.  I understand, too, though that some people would and do freak out when such things increase in intensity and the like. 
This is an interesting topic and I am sleepy and babbling. 
Davan

Dear Davant
I know I have cut and edited a whole part of what you have said and am trying to respond to just these points.
I definitely have a division intellectually, that is as an idea, between friend and lover and between friend and pla partner. The main distinction is between friend and the 'rest of the possibilities'. I'm starting out as defining friend as smeone I would not expect to have either a power synamic wit and or sex with. Friend for me, at te moment, is of the higher order in my life. Meaning that I value friend most highly. I define friend as unshakeable and unconditional. I remember starting a thread some time ago about can one be friends with a Master (something like that title). There was a general consensus that no one could not and that something was lost in the friendship when it became a dynamic...something gained as well.
My new intention is to be able to move from frend into power dynamic and NOT lose nything. And indeed (not vreating) if something goes awry with the dynamic to ne able to g back to unconditional friend.
How this links to sex is quire simple for me as bdsm dynamic for me is synonymous with sexual dynamic.
What defines friend though, oter than unconditional regard and trust? Shared common interests? Politics? values? No: as friends come in all shapes and sizes, all backgrounds, all persuasions.
I guess the answer has to be NOT to analyse intellectually, allow for the shift t occur naturally and above all make sure that nothing is ever lost along the way.



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RE: The one month rule. How many could do it? - 8/18/2009 3:52:14 PM   
MissBathsheba


Posts: 14
Joined: 11/4/2007
Status: offline 		I wouldn't do it. I don't like someone I am just getting to know imposing rules on me. I also believe that sexual compatibility is super important. I like to talk about some of these things early on but I don't really need to know everything and I generally am not really that interested to know every detail. I would only talk about it if I felt comfortable doing so. I have told people that some questions or perhaps the answers are very personal to me and I don't want to share them. Some people have mental checklists that they go through and some of the questions may be sexual but many are usually not. The checklist is a list of must have and nice to have requirements for what they are seeking in a relationship. When I got divorced my friend told me to think really hard about what I learned and what I want in a new relationship. It was good advice and I now do have specific things I seek and if comfortable I'd like to know these things as soon as possible. I don't mind if people ask me personal questions as long a they are fine if I'm not ready to answer them.

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RE: The one month rule. How many could do it? - 8/18/2009 4:06:47 PM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MissBathsheba

I wouldn't do it. I don't like someone I am just getting to know imposing rules on me. I also believe that sexual compatibility is super important.


I understand this and to a small point agree except that by the time the rules I discussed would be ready to be imposed, we would be well parts the initial stages of courtship. Having said that, all you are saying is that you and I would not be compatible on several levels. No matter what stage a relationship is at, if I decide that things are to progress in a specific way, I would not tolerate the other person refusing to follow that path. I have no objections to someone either questioning or even wanting to discuss my decisions because it is the best interest of both parties that the other person understands my reasoning and precisely what I expect and I want to know the reasons for their objections. This is a classic case of why I use a Probationary Collar. In the final analysis, it is my way or the highway. My Home, My Lifestyle I choose if someone is to join us or not and those who do will need to satisfy both Neets and myself of their compatibility in a number of areas including being approved by our dogs.


_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

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RE: The one month rule. How many could do it? - 8/18/2009 4:52:35 PM   
DavanKael


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quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

quote:

The mysteriously veiled slave/switch/whatever said:
Jeff, you seem to be saying that dynamics present themselves and that is able to be ironed out if the relationship matters.
NZ, you seem to be saying that when the shift to relational status changes so to do the presentation of power dynamics and that sometimes derails the relationship.

I think that's an astute point. In general, I approach life in a "let's work this out" sort of mode. In general, it is my opinion that if both parties in anything are actually seeking a win/win, then it's almost certainly there to be found. In fact, the entire thing with Carol goes on that way. We kind of committed to TPE... or at least said, "Yeah, let's give that a go". But the actual path is one step at a time... we're working it out. One of the ways we work it out might well be to not do TPE. Somewhere between Carol & I, there will be more than enough common ground for everyone to win.

Heh... and now that I think of it... that gets back to what I really care about... "people's ability to actually work it out when it's not going well". In my eyes, give me that one attribute and the rest is a cakewalk. And, just like NZ in the areas that he thinks are going to be hardest to find or most problematic, I'm pretty inflexible on that.


****Switch, that's my story and I'm sticking to it. <gives Jeff a serious look, lol! 'Course, based on the conversation I just had, you'd better add Dominant to that list above too> 
I think that part of what you're talking about is temperament and part of it is pragmatism in making long-term relationships work. 

  Davan

_____________________________

May you live as long as you wish & love as long as you live
-Robert A Heinlein

It's about the person & the bond,not the bondage
-Me

Waiting is

170NZ (Aka:Sex God Du Jour) pts

Jesus,I've ALWAYS been a deviant
-Leadership527,Jeff

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RE: The one month rule. How many could do it? - 8/18/2009 6:18:08 PM   
catize


Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
Status: offline 		 
I think a month is too long; but there is a vast difference between asking  about kinks vs asking about the kinky person 
When someone asks if we can communicate (email/chat…,etc) and I tell him I’d be interested in discovering if we could be friends first, almost 100% of them respond with ‘what are your limits?’ or ‘what(kinks) are you into?’  That disappoints me!  I am generally horny and very kinky, but I want to know if we are gonna like each other.  If he’s boring or rude or lacks a sense of humor or has no original thoughts/ideas, we will never find out if our sex drives or kinks match because I----don’t----care!   
Once he piques my interest as a person, once he demonstrates that he would like to know who (not just what) I am, then I have no set time limit regarding when BDSM/kink/sex can be brought into the conversation.

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RE: The one month rule. How many could do it? - 8/18/2009 6:35:26 PM   
Andalusite


Posts: 2492
Joined: 1/25/2009
Status: offline 		Jeff, while I'm a switch and am currently in a M/s relationship, and my last relationship was as a submissive, most guys just don't push my D/s buttons in either direction, even if I enjoy doing S/M and bondage with them, and even if I am generally compatible with them in a relationship way. Most of my relationships were egalitarian kinky. When I was looking, I was very flexible, and was open to someone of any BDSM orientation, but if it's important to them, I can't know whether or not we'd be compatible that way unless we had hints of it right from the start. I had no clue whether or not I could be submissive toward them (not just compliant/obedient and enjoy bottoming) until they actually did something that made me react submissively! If I went out on dates with them without doing any of those things, the odds would have been very high that they just would have stayed neutral in terms of D/s, and very possibly in terms of chemistry as well. If I had taken the approach AAkasha suggests, it probably would have sabotaged any possibility of a D/s or M/s dynamic with my Master, even though we focused a lot on the non-kinky side of things as well! I try hard to make things work, and be flexible and openminded, but I can't control how I react to someone, only how I *act*.

< Message edited by Andalusite -- 8/18/2009 6:36:22 PM >

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RE: The one month rule. How many could do it? - 8/18/2009 7:30:36 PM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

Andalusite of the extra long leg said:
until they actually did something that made me react submissively

*nods* That makes perfect sense. But honestly, I don't "do" dominant things. I'm just me. I'm not even sure how I'd go about "being dominant". Anything I can think of seems contrived. When I think back on Carol's and my meeting, long before we knew about dominance or submission, it was clear that I had "swept her under my wing" with the intent to help her. It was, in fact, a very dominant stance -- here, let me re-arrange your life for you *laughs*. But it wasn't me "being anything". It was just me seeing a woman I deemed worthwhile who I thought could use a bit of help in meeting guys. *Laughs* At the time, I had no idea that who I was helping her to meet as me.

Overall, I am finding this thread fascinating... here we are seeing both the differences and similarities in some very different viewpoints. I love situations like that. There's always something interesting to learn.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

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RE: The one month rule. How many could do it? - 8/18/2009 9:08:06 PM   
KCalli


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Joined: 8/4/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

It's the only way I do things. I don't get into personal details with strangers and before at least one month, you're a stranger to me.


So you don't even talk one bit, not one mention, about ANYTHING kinky - at all? What if the other person brings it up?  About two weeks in, aren't they wondering?

Akasha


Yes, I would have to agree. Unless it is someone I know, I don't discuss the lifestyle. If it were someone I was interested in I tend to tread lightly as there are many misconceptions floating around. Besides in any relationship, there is more than what goes on in the bedroom (or any other room). My interest involves the total person, not just kinks. Even if the other person brings it up, I tend to tread lightly, and see where they are going with it.


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RE: The one month rule. How many could do it? - 8/18/2009 9:23:40 PM   
dreamerdreaming


Posts: 2839
Status: offline 		I'm not looking, but if I were: I would have no use for such a rule. Mine and my slaveboy's needs and desires must match up well, whether vanilla or D/s.

Therefore, he and I discussed our D/s and vanilla needs, preferences and dreams in detail right away. 

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RE: The one month rule. How many could do it? - 8/18/2009 9:33:49 PM   
sexisubi


Posts: 373
Joined: 11/23/2008
Status: offline 		i think that light discussion on the topic is healthy to understand the other person. if youre looking for a relationship you want to look at everything. what the person does when they arent being a dom, and ask yourself if you can fit into that life style not just the kinky stuff... i could do it if it was said upfront 'i dont want to talk about anything kinky for a month i just want to get to know you' and i think a month can be a long time, im not saying im going to give myself over to them during our first discussion but to indicate something that i have to look forward is great. i love to be teased, this doesnt always mean touching.. so in all honesty for a month, it would be a hard rule to follow at the end but not so much in the beginning.

however if it wasnt said i know i would ask.. but it would not be the only thing i would discuss with them i want to get to know the person, im not looking for a one night stand.

i would think this was a very sweet approach and i would feel more comfortable with them in the long run, so i think i would like it.  

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RE: The one month rule. How many could do it? - 8/20/2009 7:35:21 PM   
BotanicalMiss


Posts: 82
Joined: 11/19/2006
Status: offline 		When I first read this post a few days ago, I thought it was a truly silly idea to not mention kink at all for the first month. Especially if it's with someone where the initial contact was a site such as this. However, as I was thinking in the shower a few minutes ago (it's a great place for running through stray odd thoughts) I realized I had actually done this just recently. It has been a little over a month since I received an email from a male sub saying "I know you're not looking for another male sub, but...". At the time I rolled my eyes and thought here comes another one who wants to tell me all about the things he wants me to do to him ad nauseum. So I replied that no, I'm not looking but if he would like to get to know me as a person, new friendships are welcome. Amazingly enough, he did stick around and appeared to be interested enough to get to know me a bit and let me get to know him as well. And it wasn't just a once a week email checking in. In this time there's only been once or twice when there hasn't been contact at least every other day. We actually decided to meet in person before kink was even brought up, and I was the one to broach the subject. I'm now looking forward to dinner this Saturday with a great guy, with the possibility of play time for dessert. I hadn't started out talking to him with a one month limit on what we talked about, but I do have to say it was a really refreshing change to know that the kink was there but it was not the most important thing.

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RE: The one month rule. How many could do it? - 8/20/2009 7:47:08 PM   
Roselaure


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Status: offline 		I could do it but I really don't see the point.  I'm pretty good at multi tasking.  I can learn to appreciate someone as a person, and their kinks at the same time (although I never did master that whole patting myself on the head and rubbing my tummy at the same time thing).

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RE: The one month rule. How many could do it? - 8/21/2009 7:52:37 AM   
Chicagobaby


Posts: 11
Joined: 3/24/2009
Status: offline 		I would not have it any other way...I did talk to a Dom here just a few days ago. He was so pissed that I would not talk about the lifestyle. He told me all I am looking for is a date. I need to get off this site. I was respectful and said we are done talking, have a nice day.

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RE: The one month rule. How many could do it? - 8/21/2009 8:53:55 AM   
Andalusite


Posts: 2492
Joined: 1/25/2009
Status: offline 		BotanicalMiss, I wouldn't have any problem with waiting for a month if it took that long to meet in person - I dislike discussing kink specifics with potential partners online or over the phone. Once I meet them in person, though, I need to figure out compatibility and chemistry pretty quickly.

Jeff, so far, I haven't reacted submissively toward anyone without doing at least a little bit of physical play first, even though the submission can extend to non-sexual and non-kinky aspects. Once I'm aware of someone that way, I can feel submissive or dominant just from the way they look at me, or their tone of voice, and can feel like an extension of their will, or powerful and in charge. Until then, they just don't show up on my radar in terms of D/s. I can't know if I have any chemistry with them until I do at least light physical play either - I'm not attracted to people based on just looks, I have to have touch and pheremones to react off of, and it still sometimes takes a few times to know one way or the other.

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RE: The one month rule. How many could do it? - 8/21/2009 10:07:54 AM   
DemonKia


Posts: 5521
Joined: 10/13/2007
From: Chico, Nor-Cali
Status: offline 		FR, after read thru

For whatever it's worth, I read the proposal as being specific to the case of a femdom besieged by their-own-fetish-obsessed male bottoms & / or horny-net-geeks, & potentially very useful in those instances . . . . .

I luxuriate in taking my own sweet time with stuff & 'too much' sex talk 'too early' can be a turn-off or a red flag . . . . I don't go in much for specific timeframes & deadlines & all that & someone who was really into those could possibly have some serious compatibility issues with me . . . . . So I could meet such an expectation, but maybe for the 'wrong' reasons & it might not mean much about compatibility . . . . . .

&, as I've a bit of a fetish for free expression, I tend to have some squickiness over anything that I perceive as censorious . . . . .

So far, those I've met on the message boards & then conversed with via cmail have been very well-behaved, polite, civil, & interested in general get-to-know-each-other kinda interactions, all well within my comfort zones . . ...

< Message edited by DemonKia -- 8/21/2009 10:24:57 AM >

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RE: The one month rule. How many could do it? - 8/21/2009 10:14:16 AM   
dreamerdreaming


Posts: 2839
Status: offline 		Oops. Duplicate post.

*scurries away*



< Message edited by dreamerdreaming -- 8/21/2009 10:18:42 AM >

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RE: The one month rule. How many could do it? - 8/21/2009 12:12:32 PM   
ShiftedJewel


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Joined: 12/2/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

quote:

ORIGINAL: SouthernSpankin

quote:

ORIGINAL: ShiftedJewel

That would be pure heaven to me!!!

Jewel


It's not surprising that it would be pure heaven to you, being that your profile states:

The issue is that I’m basically asexual. I think I’m using that term right, if not, please feel free to set me straight. In other words, I have zero sex drive; it doesn’t interest me in the slightest.


Ohhhh, snark-o-raamaaaaa!

But it is a false premise. There are those of us that very much enjoy sex and, with the right person, have a HUGE sex drive. We just don't like to talk about it with every single person that contacts us.





Thank you LaTigress... but my question to SS over there... what does kink and sex have to do with each other? Just because I don't have any desire to fuck doesn't mean I'm not in the slightest bit kinky. (of which I am very kinky, sadistic and down right mean) Think about those things before you snark next time.

Jewel

_____________________________

Don't ask, trust me, you won't like the answer... no one ever does.

(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 120
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