RE: Senator Kennedy just died.

RE: Senator Kennedy just died. (Full Version)

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Loki45 -> RE: Senator Kennedy just died. (8/26/2009 5:52:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity I have a right to my opinion and you have a right to yours, but who is to say what the truth is? Oh I don't know....a little thing called innocent until PROVEN guilty. Of course I know that doesn't really exist, but it's supposed to.

Sanity -> RE: Senator Kennedy just died. (8/26/2009 6:02:53 PM)
Having a favorable jury verdict has never been a prerequisite to forming an opinion. quote: ORIGINAL: Loki45 Oh I don't know....a little thing called innocent until PROVEN guilty. Of course I know that doesn't really exist, but it's supposed to.

Loki45 -> RE: Senator Kennedy just died. (8/26/2009 6:13:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity Having a favorable jury verdict has never been a prerequisite to forming an opinion. An incorrect opinion, no. A correct and "sane" one, perhaps.

rightwinghippie -> RE: Senator Kennedy just died. (8/26/2009 6:17:16 PM)
Murder? Iv'e never seen any sort of evidence of that. Likely a DUI and perhaps a negligent homicide charge, but the courts ruled otherwise. God Bless and comfort his familly at this time.

rulemylife -> RE: Senator Kennedy just died. (8/26/2009 6:21:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity There isn't hard evidence either way, not in your favor and not in mine. There is just the circumstantial evidence. Barney and Andy, friends of the family down at the primitive Mayberry Police department were in charge of bungling the investigation. Something happened that night though, a woman died. It wasn't nothing. I have a right to my opinion and you have a right to yours, but who is to say what the truth i No Sanity, this is absolute Goddamn nonsense. You spout a baseless, asinine theory with absolutely no proof to defame the man then innocently blink your eyes and exclaim "well. you don't have any proof it is not true".

Sanity -> RE: Senator Kennedy just died. (8/26/2009 6:22:41 PM)
Your opinion is that it was just an accident? Why do you think he left the area and didn't get any help for her. Why did he walk past places where he could have found her some help, possibly help enough fast enough to have saved her life. Logic tells me it was no accident. The fact that we disagree is no reason for you to get upset like this and begin attacking me, this mystery has been around and has been pondered since it first happened, its nothing new. It's synonymous with Ted Kennedy, it's no big deal.

Loki45 -> RE: Senator Kennedy just died. (8/26/2009 6:29:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity Why do you think he left the area and didn't get any help for her. Why did he walk past places where he could have found her some help, possibly help enough fast enough to have saved her life. We don't know and neither do you. What I do know, though, is that what you call an "opinion" spoken online as though it were fact is bording on slander. People have been sued for far less you know. Where you there that night? Neither was I. Since he wasn't found guilty of what you're claiming, I'd say that means you're wrong. You know...because of that pesky innocent until proven guilty bit.

rightwinghippie -> RE: Senator Kennedy just died. (8/26/2009 6:33:03 PM)
Actually it is perfectly reasonable that he could have wrecked the car, and wanted to call his daddies lawyers before he talked to the police. Which may be scummy but isn't murder. If he had had the premeditated intent to kill the woman. He had the resources to easily dispose of her body in a way she would never be found. And he never be involved. Bless and Pray for his familly.

servantforuse -> RE: Senator Kennedy just died. (8/26/2009 6:33:38 PM)
He had been drinking. He had to wait 8 hours to sobber up before going to the cops, while leaving her in the car. Such a wonderful human being..

RapierFugue -> RE: Senator Kennedy just died. (8/26/2009 6:35:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Loki45 quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity Why do you think he left the area and didn't get any help for her. Why did he walk past places where he could have found her some help, possibly help enough fast enough to have saved her life. We don't know and neither do you. What I do know, though, is that what you call an "opinion" spoken online as though it were fact is bording on slander. People have been sued for far less you know. Not once the target is dead, they haven't. Or at least, not to my knowledge. Oh, and if it's slander it's verbal - libel is the term in the written form. At least, it is in the UK, not sure how it goes in the US. Oh and also, it also has to be proved to be an imposition upon the perceived moral character and standing of the recipient. Given what people already thought of Ted Kennedy in this matter, I think that'd be a tough one to prove.

Loki45 -> RE: Senator Kennedy just died. (8/26/2009 6:44:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rightwinghippie Actually it is perfectly reasonable that he could have wrecked the car, and wanted to call his daddies lawyers before he talked to the police. Which may be scummy but isn't murder. If he had had the premeditated intent to kill the woman. He had the resources to easily dispose of her body in a way she would never be found. And he never be involved. Well said.

Sanity -> RE: Senator Kennedy just died. (8/26/2009 7:04:18 PM)
Except he was seen leaving the party with her. quote: ORIGINAL: rightwinghippie Actually it is perfectly reasonable that he could have wrecked the car, and wanted to call his daddies lawyers before he talked to the police. Which may be scummy but isn't murder. If he had had the premeditated intent to kill the woman. He had the resources to easily dispose of her body in a way she would never be found. And he never be involved. Bless and Pray for his familly.

MasterMgm -> RE: Senator Kennedy just died. (8/26/2009 7:16:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rulemylife quote: ORIGINAL: MasterMgm Ted pleaded guilty to a charge of leaving the scene of an accident after causing injury which now according the 1982 Mass law is vehicular homicide.Ted received a suspended sentence. Well, I tell you what Mgm, show me the statute you are referencing and point out where it says someone leaving the scene of an accident can be automatically charged with vehicular homicide. The statute. General Laws c. 90, § 24G (b), defines the crime of homicide as (1) the operation of a motor vehicle, (2) in certain places, (3) either (a) with a percentage, by weight, of blood alcohol of 0.08 or greater, or (b) while under the influence of intoxicating liquor or certain drugs, substances, or vapors, or (c) recklessly or negligently so that the lives or safety of the public might be endangered, and (4) by such operation causes the death of another person. Until alternate element (3) (a) was inserted by St. 2003, c. 28, § 22,vehicular homicide remained essentially unchanged since it was first enacted, see St. 1976, c. 227. See St. 1982, c. 373, § 9; St. 1982, c. 376, § 2. There you go. I guess you next respond would be how do we know if Sir Ted was driving recklessly or negligently. All I can said, keep thinking Sir Ted was a god. Maybe you should move to Mass and take his place in the Senate.

Loki45 -> RE: Senator Kennedy just died. (8/26/2009 7:19:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MasterMgm quote: ORIGINAL: rulemylife quote: ORIGINAL: MasterMgm Ted pleaded guilty to a charge of leaving the scene of an accident after causing injury which now according the 1982 Mass law is vehicular homicide.Ted received a suspended sentence. Well, I tell you what Mgm, show me the statute you are referencing and point out where it says someone leaving the scene of an accident can be automatically charged with vehicular homicide. The statute. General Laws c. 90, § 24G (b), defines the crime of homicide as (1) the operation of a motor vehicle, (2) in certain places, (3) either (a) with a percentage, by weight, of blood alcohol of 0.08 or greater, or (b) while under the influence of intoxicating liquor or certain drugs, substances, or vapors, or (c) recklessly or negligently so that the lives or safety of the public might be endangered, and (4) by such operation causes the death of another person. Until alternate element (3) (a) was inserted by St. 2003, c. 28, § 22,vehicular homicide remained essentially unchanged since it was first enacted, see St. 1976, c. 227. See St. 1982, c. 373, § 9; St. 1982, c. 376, § 2. There you go. I guess you next respond would be how do we know if Sir Ted was driving recklessly or negligently. All I can said, keep thinking Sir Ted was a god. Maybe you should move to Mass and take his place in the Senate. Ahh, but "vehicular homicide" and "murder" are two separate charges, kinda like manslaughter and murder. All involve death, but all carry a widely varying set of distinctions and sentences.

ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: Senator Kennedy just died. (8/26/2009 7:26:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rightwinghippie Actually it is perfectly reasonable that he could have wrecked the car, and wanted to call his daddies lawyers before he talked to the police. Which may be scummy but isn't murder. If he had had the premeditated intent to kill the woman. He had the resources to easily dispose of her body in a way she would never be found. And he never be involved. Bless and Pray for his familly. Yes, especially if he was drunk, which seems quite probable. My guess always was that he wanted to wait until he sobered up. As you say, thoroughly despicable in its own right, but not murder. Although from a moral standpoint, I see it as a distinction without much difference. I just want to say that I respect and appreciate the respect you're showing his family today. As you can see, it's not exactly a universal reaction among conservatives. Personally, I've never had even an ounce of respect for the man, and in fact haven't got much use for anyone in the entire family, really. Bobby was the only one worth a tinker's damn, in my opinion, and that includes his brother Jack. But I don't see where it would kill any of us to wait until he's in the ground before we start throwing the dirt on him. Next week is plenty of time to start picking apart the corpse.

Sanity -> RE: Senator Kennedy just died. (8/26/2009 7:59:37 PM)
I'm sure there will be blunt talk about Bush's legacy when he passes on, and I know there was about Reagan's legacy. We're all adults here, so let's stop pretending and try to stick with just one standard. Further, when someone makes a questionable claim regarding a career politician from the left who has just passed on, someone from the other side of the aisle should be able to offer a counter opinion.

rightwinghippie -> RE: Senator Kennedy just died. (8/26/2009 8:06:36 PM)
I think trying to use his death as a prop to get support politically, right after his death is poor form. The Wellstone funeral proved I am not alone in that. But I want to be better than that. I have a standard, and I am sticking to it. I very much disliked Kennedy, for both political and personal reasons, and I will work to tarnish his name, next week. He deserves respect as dead Senator. No one is perfect. Everyone dies, And it is hard on their families. I sincerly hope for peace on his familly at this time.

slvemike4u -> RE: Senator Kennedy just died. (8/26/2009 9:03:00 PM)
Rest In Peace Senator Kennedy...you served your Country with distinction. Whatever happened one drunken night a long time ago was a tragedy....and he was probably guilty of many crimes,some committed that night...some committed in the following days to deflect and subvert the investigation.All despicable and self serving...definitely worthy of scorn. But murder?.....not even close.

philosophy -> RE: Senator Kennedy just died. (8/26/2009 9:28:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity Further, when someone makes a questionable claim regarding a career politician from the left who has just passed on, someone from the other side of the aisle should be able to offer a counter opinion. ......fair enough. Here's my opinion. Your accusations earlier in this thread are mean-spirited, nasty, opportunistic, partisan bullshit. As others have pointed out there is a time and a place for critical analysis of any recently deceased politicians life. This isn't it. You'll have plenty of opportunities to knock those you characterise as left wing, there'll be plenty of moments you can point to and say, I told ya so'.........however, to choose the day after someone dies to accuse them of rape and murder, to then cravenly refuse to offer any evidence of that accusation other than you think its plausible, to then characterise your nasty little episode as 'no big deal'.........well, i usually respect you as a man i disagree with but who argues honourably. Today you have shown yourself to be having a day without shame or honour. A singular pity.

sexypet -> RE: Senator Kennedy just died. (8/26/2009 10:23:14 PM)
To quote Sanity's profile: "I can be an asshole, when the situation demands it" Sanity, did this situation demand it? Was it necessary to dance on the man's grave on the very day he passed? You certainly do not seem like one of the nicest people i might ever hope to meet.

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