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RE: Humiliation = Edge Play? - 9/9/2009 4:58:14 PM

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Humiliation is tricky, especially when you are moving on from acute embarrassment to degradation, dehumanization, etc. Some do thrive in this environment, other can only deal with small bits here and there. It so depends on the person that, yes, I think you have to know the person very well.

Acute embarrassment can he hugely cathartic, it can also be hugely damaging. Would I consider it edge play? I never have before, perhaps I'm rethinking that.

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RE: Humiliation = Edge Play? - 9/9/2009 5:13:19 PM

mauve

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quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveluci

quote:

ORIGINAL: mixielicous

Well, seeing as how I have to talk to myself like that to get off *alone* I dont really consider it an edge.

Totally agreed!

Being a "newbie" to "play" doesn't make one a newbie at life. People can have lived a long life and garnered much wisdom and experience without ever having engaged in such things before. Therefore, I feel they'll have the ability to cope pretty well having been alive and experiencing things for awhile. The OP asks: "But is that something that should really be done by new people?" They aren't "new people." They weren't born yesterday. New to this "lifestyle" doesn't make one defenseless and unable to handle "edgy" things if you consider rough talk "edgy."

Totally agreed. I do think it depends on the submissive themselves, to a degree, like someone who has had issues with abuse etc could take it a little differently. I'm supremely confident and independant in everything I do. So while I'm relativly new to the "scene" as a whole, I am not new to this type of playing.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LordDarkPleasure

Another example of subtle detail that changes everything:

I wouldn't call my sub a bitch. That would simply be insulting and hurting her.

I would however tell her that she is MY bitch. Then a dynamics kicks in, where she knows she isn't one in general but is now free to act like one with me, because she knows its for me. I did humiliate her, but she will often be flattered by it and then proceed in humiliating herself just to embrace the fact that she is my bitch.

That's exactly what my partner does and it gives me goosebumps. Yummm....
That's my 2c. It's interesting to read all the different opionions on this topic.

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RE: Humiliation = Edge Play? - 9/9/2009 5:34:38 PM

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Let me offer my definition of edge play just to even things out about my OP.

Edge play - a bdsm scene or situation involving high risk behavior. examples, rough body play, cutting, breath play. Something that could irrevocably damage someone emotionally or physically if all participants are not highly skilled in that area of play.

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RE: Humiliation = Edge Play? - 9/9/2009 6:06:36 PM

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This isa great topic and I'm hoping to read many more opinions. I especially like what LordDarkPleasure ( took the words right from my mouth -she's not a bitch but she's MY bitch & I'll tell her&she'll by God tell me right back) & daintydimples have to say.....

I confine humiliation to during play&sex, which overlap often enough anyway, & even at those times its not a consistent dynamic. Rarely in public & only subtly. And, I've learned to put it away completely at those times when we're having "issues" , if all isnt right with us then it messes her up too much. I don't bring it in to our vanilla areas of our life.

I've learned that edge is defined by the individual. I reveled in forceplay for decades before coming into the lifestyle & my pretty one sure considers it as edgeplay. Ditto for faceslapping - freaks her right out & was a hard hard limit of hers for a long time. For me, humiliation is part&parcel of both of those acts. &, from conversing with people&reading posts on the local boards not many in my local community seem to have any desire or even use for forceplay so, to them, it would be considered edge while all the bottoms I did it with in the past didn't blink an eye. It took me some time to understand that in the lifestyle there's even more baggage to deal with than in my former life. I wouldn't even bring up those acts or any kind of humiliation with a potential submissive without lots(& lots) of getting to know what makes each other tick.

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RE: Humiliation = Edge Play? - 9/9/2009 6:25:11 PM

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"Edge play" is defined by whatever is the edge of your limits.

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RE: Humiliation = Edge Play? - 9/9/2009 8:26:20 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sunnyfey
Is humiliation play something you should just jump into like that? .. But is that something that should really be done by new people?

Humiliation play is not for subs with self-esteem issues. But for strong-willed women, or good looking ones, it's a fun way to play. Read some of the "player" books on why 9s and 10s should be pushed harder than less good looking women.

Taking a beautiful woman who's used to being put on a pedestal, and treating her like dirt, is one of life's basic pleasures. For both partners.

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RE: Humiliation = Edge Play? - 9/9/2009 10:15:38 PM

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Roughleather, some women are beautiful but insecure, or have body image issues even if the rest of the world disagrees with them.

Abuddingdom, I don't feel humiliated in the slightest by forceplay or faceslapping. The "my bitch/slut/cunt/etc." rather than "a bitch/etc." approach can help turn it into an endearment, along with tone, but I don't enjoy name-calling type of play. It's not a limit, but it is something I'm cautious about, and it just doesn't register as hot. *shrugs*

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RE: Humiliation = Edge Play? - 9/9/2009 10:22:16 PM

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what about the beautiful woman who isnt used to being on the pedestal? what to do with them..

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RE: Humiliation = Edge Play? - 9/10/2009 7:22:55 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sunnyfey

Reading another post about a humiliation scene done by a newbi got me thinking....

Is humiliation play something you should just jump into like that? I mean it's just words right? (not going into physical humiliations, i mean things like calling a submissive woman a "fat pig" or "she doesn't deserve to cum/serve you/etc)

But is that something that should really be done by new people? Or are we chalking this up to something like RACK?

I see humiliation play as edge play, for the simple fact sometimes you just cant come back emotionally, and it could be damaging to your psyche for a long time, or forever.

Thoughts? Opinions?

Interesting thread. I could have written what marie did. It wasn't "play" for my former owner & I, though, he was emotionally sadistic and I was...well...who knows. I liked to challenge myself to see how much I could take. There were some horribly humiliating things said and done with me, that I handled at the time, not realizing the residual effect would be profound. I no longer belong to that man, yet his words remain in my head and sometimes it still takes a lot of effort to remind (convince?) myself they are not true.

I've done a lot of work on myself, to love myself and to respect myself, and I think venturing back into the world of humiliation would be risky for me. That said, the man I now belong to has tiptoed into that arena and I haven't had any issues responding to it, but the mildest things affect me quite strongly.

That said - edgy or not edgy - everyone's threshold is different, depending on where they are in life. Two years ago humiliation wasn't edgy for me at all. Now it is not only edgy but risky, and dealt with very carefully.

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RE: Humiliation = Edge Play? - 9/10/2009 7:33:21 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sunnyfey

Is humiliation play something you should just jump into like that? I mean it's just words right?

Frankly, I could not possibly disagree with you more.

Words are like hand grenades in the sense that they are as dangerous for the user as for the intended target. In therms of potential dammage, the main differences between words and hand grenades is that the latest have a safety pin and can be thrown away.

The worst is when an humilation contains a trace of truth or plays on one's fear.

For example, given the nice pictures of you, I do not think that calling you "fat cow" would hurt you. You would laugh or slap me. I do not know, but the only thing damaged would be my ego (the soldier maimed by his own hand grenade).

But if you are in one of these professions where anybody heavier than an anorexic ethiopian on hunger strike is considered fat, I would play on your fears and deeply hurt you. I have seen a gorgeous fashion models dislocated and in tears because of some blabantly untrue comment from her photographer.

Of course If I spank you, I hurt you too, but I can put smoothing cream on your buttock and give you an aspirine, eventually, the pain will vanish. But there is no cream or pain-killer for a hurt self-esteem I know of.

Kinky regards

Henry

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RE: Humiliation = Edge Play? - 9/10/2009 8:00:03 AM

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Aspirin in that situation would make the bruises last longer, since it discourages clotting. ;)

So, as I wrote above, I'm generally not into humiliation, but in the right circumstances, I think it could be fun/playful, especially with minimal costuming and obvious roleplaying aspects such as using a different name. For example, dressing up with a halloween wig with snakes, as Medusa, "Stare at my cock some more you ugly monster, it isn't hard enough yet for me to stick it in you!" or a wearing a schoolgirl outfit, with him playing the a bully with over-the-top or silly insults "'Susie,' your ass is so fat it takes up 3 zipcodes! Was your mama a nanotechnologist, 'cause damn, girl, she sure made your tits microscopic!" or wearing biblical robes "'Leah,' I slaved away for 7 years, and all I got was your skanky ass, when I want Rachael. Have you been eating bacon, 'cause you look like a pig!"

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RE: Humiliation = Edge Play? - 9/10/2009 8:30:51 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sunnyfey

I see humiliation play as edge play, for the simple fact sometimes you just cant come back emotionally, and it could be damaging to your psyche for a long time, or forever.

Thoughts? Opinions?

my attraction to it is purely mental. i'm aware of the risks and that fact that he could very well fuck with my head, but in a large regard that's precisely what i'm wanting. whether i elect to internalize his remarks and make them true for me when we're outside of the scenario is something entirely different.

it goes back to knowing myself and being aware that while this was play oriented, if it hits a trigger or feeds a fear, that is something to be addressed, not ignored. i suppose in some weird messed up way if it has the possibility of bringing things to the surface that i might be unwilling to address without some measure of coercion. which is intentionally applied in this case, it can be very beneficial.

a lie will never traumatize. it is only when we perceive the lie as truth and willingly (even in the subconscious)
accept it as factual, that real damage can occur. but even in these circumstances it was my choice to do so. i do not perceive negative results as singularly the dominant's fault.

porcelaine

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RE: Humiliation = Edge Play? - 9/10/2009 8:37:58 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: roughleather

Humiliation play is not for subs with self-esteem issues. But for strong-willed women, or good looking ones, it's a fun way to play. Read some of the "player" books on why 9s and 10s should be pushed harder than less good looking women.

Taking a beautiful woman who's used to being put on a pedestal, and treating her like dirt, is one of life's basic pleasures. For both partners.

BULLSHIT

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RE: Humiliation = Edge Play? - 9/10/2009 8:39:00 AM

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Thanks. I was a bitch today

i will not even explain

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RE: Humiliation = Edge Play? - 9/10/2009 8:39:37 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: roughleather

Humiliation play is not for subs with self-esteem issues. But for strong-willed women, or good looking ones, it's a fun way to play. Read some of the "player" books on why 9s and 10s should be pushed harder than less good looking women.

Taking a beautiful woman who's used to being put on a pedestal, and treating her like dirt, is one of life's basic pleasures. For both partners.

But keep in mind that many beautiful women don't believe for a moment that they are beautiful. Thats not to say they have low self esteem, just they don't see themselves the same way you do.
I would more likely say, take a woman with a big ego regarding her looks and do those things to.

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RE: Humiliation = Edge Play? - 9/10/2009 8:40:49 AM

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Well Im not really one for verbal humiliation. I didnt like being called names on the playground as a kid and I dont like being called names now in the bedroom. That being said, to each their own. Some people would be quite fine if the first play date they were called all sorts of names, in fact I would say some would be incradably turned on by it. Others would need to wait, would need to establish a very strong foundation of trust and love before they could engage in such play and feel comfertable and aroused by it. Still others like me could be completley in love, trust their partner 100% and still never be okay emotionally with such play.

It really comes down to the fact that we are all different and there is no one size fits all.

Magik

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don't slow down
if you’re scared dont show it
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RE: Humiliation = Edge Play? - 9/10/2009 8:57:47 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Falkenstein

Words are like hand grenades - The worst is when an humilation contains a trace of truth or plays on one's fear.

" if you are in one of these professions where anybody heavier than an anorexic ethiopian on hunger strike is considered fat, I would play on your fears and deeply hurt you. I have seen a gorgeous fashion models dislocated and in tears because of some blabantly untrue comment from her photographer".

But we know they are not human. I jest

true - They are called 'things' everyday and agents / whoever find fault no matter what to keep them in line
i know from past experience and i was young and the self loathing, just a bit stayed with me even today

men who read that player book are mistaken if they take it seriously. This is from a girl who has heard - whatever line guy could think of - putting me down in attempted pick ups in bars and clubs since publishing date of that jerk fiction.
in fact , about two years ago i sent for that book online, myself. Then, i wrote the author and discussed. He said there are excpetions, granted and it was just an opinion - a way to make $ for him - and my money was 100% refunded by the small staff with a thank you.

I need to add - i enjoy edge play and humiliation anyway

Thank you ( and i'd bet you DO get laid whenever you want!) LOL

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RE: Humiliation = Edge Play? - 9/10/2009 8:58:02 AM

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We all know from our childhood and the school playground that verbal scorn can be more wounding than anything else. Its the same with the abused wife who is continually told that no other man would ever look at her or the abused husband who is told on a regular basis that he's useless and doesn't have the tools to satisfy a woman. Over a period of time and bit by bit they will believe it.
Consensual humiliation is somewhat different in that its a planned act, its not real and the person dealing it out is probably very attentive towards his/her partner before and after. On the other hand, play or not, our brains still have the capability of questioning ourselves. If someone tells his partner that her tits are pathetic and her face looks like a slapped arse, she will question herself about that later. She will doubt him when he reassures her that he actually loves her tits and doesn't really think her face looks like a slapped arse. A womans hair is her crowning glory, her face is her asset and her body is her temple. To verbally show distain to any of these will often have later consequences.
I find it strange that so many male subs can take with ease the verbal humiliation against there face and bodies, especially there dicks and yet women more often than not don't want to go down that route and much prefer an act of humiliation rather than a put down.

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RE: Humiliation = Edge Play? - 9/10/2009 9:08:30 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

For me, I don't deal well with things like, "it's humiliation but it's not". Either I intended to humiliate Carol or I did not. It is one or the other. If I did not, then I wouldn't think of it as humiliation play. For instance, I call Carol my "kinky little slut" but we both know the meaning behind those words. "Slut" has been redefined. But I wouldn't think of that as "humiliation". Given Carol's personality, I can't really see "real" humiliation doing anything other than humiliating her... probably crushingly.

we also don't understand the concept of humiliation "play." either you are humiliating someone or you are not. we don't play games in our relationship. He does believe in subjecting me to humiliation as well as degradation from time to time (the latter actually more than the former), as they are tools which help to keep me properly grounded. because of the immense love we share for one another, without being occasionally humbled and forcefully put down i can gradually start feeling more "beloved one" than slave, which is not healthy for the relationship. so humiliation is very effective for this purpose, but it is certainly undertaken very seriously and not fun, kinky times.

i would not recommend a "newbie" engage in true humiliation, whether from the Dominant or submissive side. humiliation "play" on the other hand, is very different and if it floats one's boat, i say go for it.

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RE: Humiliation = Edge Play? - 9/10/2009 9:16:33 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: roughleather

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sunnyfey
Is humiliation play something you should just jump into like that? .. But is that something that should really be done by new people?

Humiliation play is not for subs with self-esteem issues. But for strong-willed women, or good looking ones, it's a fun way to play. Read some of the "player" books on why 9s and 10s should be pushed harder than less good looking women.

Taking a beautiful woman who's used to being put on a pedestal, and treating her like dirt, is one of life's basic pleasures. For both partners.

Yeah or there are actually...so I've heard...strong-willed women that AREN'T 10's in everyone's book who can really be lots of fun to play with and/or humiliate. Or at least that's what I've heard

luci

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