RE: Humiliation = Edge Play?

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RE: Humiliation = Edge Play? - 9/10/2009 9:16:48 AM

sublace

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quote:

ORIGINAL: allthatjaz

I find it strange that so many male subs can take with ease the verbal humiliation against there face and bodies, especially there dicks and yet women more often than not don't want to go down that route

I have wondered that too allthatjazz. I think it's because a man's value and worth has had more to do with his wallet and 'position' ya know.

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RE: Humiliation = Edge Play? - 9/10/2009 9:19:03 AM

TurboJugend

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at OP

Personally I think it is "edge play" when the receiver feels it as such..

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RE: Humiliation = Edge Play? - 9/10/2009 9:20:40 AM

sublace

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quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveluci

Yeah or there are actually...so I've heard...strong-willed women that AREN'T 10's in everyone's book who can really be lots of fun to play with and/or humiliate. Or at least that's what I've heard

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RE: Humiliation = Edge Play? - 9/10/2009 10:12:41 AM

billyInAustin

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I have to agree that i can cause damage, as a samll man if you know what I mean, i have been scared by SPH but crave more. make sense?

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RE: Humiliation = Edge Play? - 9/10/2009 9:22:03 PM

Acer49

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sunnyfey

Reading another post about a humiliation scene done by a newbi got me thinking....

Is humiliation play something you should just jump into like that? I mean it's just words right? (not going into physical humiliations, i mean things like calling a submissive woman a "fat pig" or "she doesn't deserve to cum/serve you/etc)

But is that something that should really be done by new people? Or are we chalking this up to something like RACK?

I see humiliation play as edge play, for the simple fact sometimes you just cant come back emotionally, and it could be damaging to your psyche for a long time, or forever.

Thoughts? Opinions?

My feelings about that type of play aside, if you are going to engage in this type of play you had better know your partner inside and out. No, under no uncertain terns should a newbee ever attempt this. this type of play could have serious repercussions.

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RE: Humiliation = Edge Play? - 9/11/2009 7:04:09 AM

DesFIP

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I don't see it as you try it once, it goes wrong and you've irrevocably damaged the relationship. I didn't hard list humiliation, I also wasn't turned on by it but I (and he) assumed that it was okay to try.

We were wrong. I was shocked by the fact that I had this hitherto unknown emotional trigger. Believe me, he was too. But I will say we played very lightly for the next several months with lots of positive reinforcement and him checking in on me much more frequently.

And I never have learned to reframe "my slut" as a good thing. To me it's still humiliation and still highly unpleasant. Love slave works well, slut doesn't.

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RE: Humiliation = Edge Play? - 9/11/2009 12:07:08 PM

CreativeDominant

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sunnyfey

Reading another post about a humiliation scene done by a newbi got me thinking....

Is humiliation play something you should just jump into like that? I mean it's just words right? (not going into physical humiliations, i mean things like calling a submissive woman a "fat pig" or "she doesn't deserve to cum/serve you/etc)

But is that something that should really be done by new people? Or are we chalking this up to something like RACK?

I see humiliation play as edge play, for the simple fact sometimes you just cant come back emotionally, and it could be damaging to your psyche for a long time, or forever.

Thoughts? Opinions?

I too see humiliation as edge play but for differing reasons than you do.

I make a distinction between degradation and humiliation. Degradation is something that makes a person feel like they are less than what they are. It kicks at the insecurities lurking within someone and not in a good "evil" hot way but rather in a way that takes away from them as a person and makes them feel honestly bad about themselves. Using terms or phrases such as "you fat pig" or "you lazy worthless cunt" or "stupid idiot only good for fucking" come to mind. On the other hand, humiliation is used to touch on those dark spots within a submissive's soul but in a sexually exciting manner, in a way that might make most vanilla people angry but that...for her...flips her trigger in a good way. In D/s and/or BDSM, one of the effects of the humiliation is to make the submissive feel closer to the dominant in whatever manner that their dynamic is structured...as his submissive, as his girl, as his partner. e.g. of humiliation...My first submissive and I worked with her to be able to make her squirt when she orgasmed intensely. It would not occur with a "normal" orgasm but it would occur when she was intensely excited mentally, physiologically or both. I took this bit of knowledge and put it together with the fact that she always felt that anal sex was taboo and felt extremely embarassed over the fact that, once I trained her to it, she loved it so much...craved it in fact. So...when I wanted to bring sexual humiliation into a scene, I would be fucking her ass and telling her what a good little ass slut she was...I would tell her to beg for it and then tell her how naughty she was to beg for it and then prove what an assfuck-craving whore she was for begging for it, moaning in her excitement of it...I told her that one of the things she loved about it was because she felt just like a virgin "little girl" again. This made her face red, it hit her so deep on an intimate level that she would bury her face in her arms. I would then add to the humiliation by gripping her hair and twisting it as I brought her face up, telling her firmly she would not hide from me. This usually led to her squirting copiously in an orgasm that was so intense, it was all I could do to hold my cock in her. Afterwards, I would praise her for how well she had done...what a good girl she was...how pleasing she was to me...and point out to her how deeply she'd orgasmed.

In my world of D/s and BDSM, I do humiliation play but not on a casual basis and I believe I have stated why above...it works best when you have some knowledge of the submissive you are playing with (in my opinion) and, depending on the level of humiliation, there has to be some affirmation of your partner afterwards, even when tis done right.

< Message edited by CreativeDominant -- 9/11/2009 12:25:28 PM >

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RE: Humiliation = Edge Play? - 9/11/2009 2:45:03 PM

DesFIP

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My problem CD, is that I don't find sexually exciting things to be shameful. So humiliation does not work to make me hotter, it stops arousal in its tracks.

Are you saying that humiliation works only if you have shame over being a sexual being?

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RE: Humiliation = Edge Play? - 9/11/2009 6:42:41 PM

Jeptha

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quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

For me, I don't deal well with things like, "it's humiliation but it's not"...

To borrow from the motto of a group on another site, in essence humiliation isn't about making people do things they don't want to do - it's about bringing them to some of the things that they secretly wish to do.

So, of course, the key factor there is to have a good handle on what your partner secretly wishes to do (or be told, or whatever), if anything.

Thus ~ those things still have a smack of humiliation, but it occurs within a consensual and safe setting, so one can argue whether or not it is true humiliation. Close afucking nuff, I say.

In order for it to work, you do have to know what's going on in your partner's mind, what fantasies or secrets or taboos they have, and whether they would find it hot to talk about them or otherwise play with them, or if they'd simply be mortified.

I haven't quite found a definition of degradation that I find really strong.
CreativeDominant's definition, above, is most reasonable - except there's such a variability to those definitions from person to person that I feel it confuses the terms and makes them hard to distinguish from one another, which is not the effect I'm hoping for when I set out looking to define things.

The differences between humiliation and degradation are hard to define because they're so absolutely subjective, but they are significant.

< Message edited by Jeptha -- 9/11/2009 6:44:22 PM >

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RE: Humiliation = Edge Play? - 9/12/2009 7:22:11 AM

Bearlee

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LordDarkPleasure

Another example of subtle detail that changes everything:

I wouldn't call my sub a bitch. That would simply be insulting and hurting her.

I would however tell her that she is MY bitch. Then a dynamics kicks in, where she knows she isn't one in general but is now free to act like one with me, because she knows its for me. I did humiliate her, but she will often be flattered by it and then proceed in humiliating herself just to embrace the fact that she is my bitch.

OMG...in my mind you have hit the nail right on the head! I have a hard time with being called names...'bitch', as well as slut, whore...cunt. [wince] In my mind these are not only ugly words...but bring up ugly images not only of the behavior/attitude/person they are meant to conjure, but also the ugly countenance of the person who would use such words.

Now, having said that...put 'My...' in front of such a word...add ownership to anything and I darn near swoon; even if it's embarrassing as hell. While I’d be humiliated if someone thought I was an actual whore…I’m as humiliated by my desire to be HIS whore. Yanno?

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RE: Humiliation = Edge Play? - 9/12/2009 7:36:18 AM

CreativeDominant

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

My problem CD, is that I don't find sexually exciting things to be shameful. So humiliation does not work to make me hotter, it stops arousal in its tracks.

Are you saying that humiliation works only if you have shame over being a sexual being?

No. While it can work that way and it is probably an easier way to make it work, for others it is simply a matter of finding those things that make them feel slightly squeamish when you ask them if they would share that knowledge of themselves with their co-workers or friends or even society at large. I was speaking to a submissive a few nights ago who embraces her sexually open nature. But when asked whether or not she would share a certain thing about her that I know with co-workers or friends, she became a bit discombobulated. This is the sort of thing that can be used later for the purpose of a humiliation scene.

I don't deny that humilation does not work for some...they find no shame, no embarassment, nothing they would keep hidden from others in what they do. That is cool for them. For some, it wouldn't work even if the elements I've described were in place because they just aren't wired that way. That is one of the nice things about us as individuals...we are all wired differently and it is fun exploring the wiring diagram and finding what works and what does not. For me, humiliation doesn't work when the submissive ends up feeling degraded and put down rather than embarassed but lifted up.

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RE: Humiliation = Edge Play? - 9/12/2009 8:44:50 AM

Andalusite

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CreativeDom, there are activities and words that others consider to be "humilation play" but don't embarrass me at all. The type of play you describe doesn't sound appealing at all - most likely it would turn me off, at best, it would be neutral. Role-play based humiliation, like I described above would be fun, but not necessarily a turnon. It could be combined with things that I *DO* enjoy fairly easily, though, and would be unlikely to cause any damage since it would obviously not really be about *me*. The line between humiliation and degradation is very fine, and can shift a lot. Threatening to expose my sex-life to co-workers is a hard limit - I would consider that blackmail. I'm out to some of my friends, but not others. I get embarrassed fairly easily (not just about sexual stuff) and blush, and most of the guys I've dated, and my friends, think it's cute. Once I get started, I get flustered about it, which makes me blush even harder!

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RE: Humiliation = Edge Play? - 9/12/2009 4:03:41 PM

CreativeDominant

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Andalusite

CreativeDom, there are activities and words that others consider to be "humilation play" but don't embarrass me at all. The type of play you describe doesn't sound appealing at all - most likely it would turn me off, at best, it would be neutral. Role-play based humiliation, like I described above would be fun, but not necessarily a turnon. It could be combined with things that I *DO* enjoy fairly easily, though, and would be unlikely to cause any damage since it would obviously not really be about *me*. The line between humiliation and degradation is very fine, and can shift a lot. Threatening to expose my sex-life to co-workers is a hard limit - I would consider that blackmail. I'm out to some of my friends, but not others. I get embarrassed fairly easily (not just about sexual stuff) and blush, and most of the guys I've dated, and my friends, think it's cute. Once I get started, I get flustered about it, which makes me blush even harder!

Once again, you are reading me a bit wrong, Andalusite. I am not talking about outing someone, what I am speaking of is digging deep for those activities that a submissive likes to do but is ashamed or embarassed or would not admit to her friends or co-workers or family. Outing someone IS NOT a nice thing...I know, my ex-wife did it to me. The stuff you are talking about at the end is what I noted in my first post if you would go back and read it.

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