14% Jump in Healtchare Reform Approval

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14% Jump in Healtchare Reform Approval - 9/10/2009 6:48:11 AM

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Ok....this is a post far more about politics than policies. It says more about the political football game than anything else and I admit that going in. That said:

Holy Crap! Obama gives a speech and the poll numbers for approval of a healthcare reform bill go up in double digits. This is a man who can speechafy. Call it cult of personality, call it what you will, you can't deny that this man can make political capital faster than Goldman Sachs can hand out million dollar bonuses. The last time I saw any president able to so move people with a simple speech was R.R. back in the eighties. Say what you will about his policies, this guy knows how to play the game and play it well. I really have yet to see an opponent on the horizon who's going to be able to hang with this guy in the round by round action of a campaign.

In a double victory for the Democrats, there is that little "you lie!" faux pas. With that little ejaculation, Mr. Wilson did two things that may come back to be of note in the 2010 elections. First, he reinforced the image of republicans as desperate, angry, frustrated and disruptionist. Second, he completely overshadowed any political gain that the resignation of Jones might have brought. A house member heckling the president in a joint session of congress trumps a white house czar with a truther petition any time. Not only has is opponent in the next election gotten a cash windfall in it's aftermath, but the republicans now have to eat crow and repudiate his actions. Repudiations are a hard thing, half the people hearing them will feel they don't go far enough. The other half will feel they go to far. Bad mojo on both sides.

So, once again, Obama shows he knows how to play the game. I have to tell you, policies aside, and barring a major meltdown in the country, I see this guy as hard to beat in '12, no matter who runs against him.

Once again, this isn't an examintaion of policy. It's a discussion of politics which can be as enjoyable and meaningless as any sporting contest.

RE: 14% Jump in Healtchare Reform Approval - 9/10/2009 6:54:02 AM

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His speech was moving. He pulled no punches, called many on their actions, Answered questions about the bill that seem to have been troubling people most.... and his handling of the "heckler" was outstanding.

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RE: 14% Jump in Healtchare Reform Approval - 9/10/2009 7:11:08 AM

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it's a pity the moderate republicans are terrified to speak up and come to the table on this bill. they know the psychos will attack them and try to get them out of office later no matter that we need the best minds working on this together.

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RE: 14% Jump in Healtchare Reform Approval - 9/10/2009 7:20:54 AM

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What poll are you looking at. Not this one...

quote:

Obama disapproval on health care up to 52 percent

WASHINGTON – Public disapproval of President Barack Obama's handling of health care has leaped to 52 percent, according to Associated Press-GfK poll that underscores the country's glowering mood as the White House made a renewed pitch for an overhaul.

Just 42 percent approve of the president's work on the high-profile health issue. The survey was released Wednesday before his nationally televised effort to persuade Congress and voters to back his drive to reshape the nation's $2.5 trillion-a-year medical system.

Spotlighting how Obama lost ground this summer, his latest approval figures on health were essentially reversed since July, when 50 percent approved of his health effort and just 43 percent disapproved.

***
The poll illustrates how difficult recent weeks have been for a president who, besides tackling health care, has been battling to end a devastatingly deep recession. Fifty percent approve and 49 percent disapprove of the overall job he is doing as president, compared to July, when those approving his performance clearly outnumbered those who were unhappy with it, 55 percent to 42 percent.
(Full article here).

The way things look to me, if things keep trending the way they are the Republicans are set to come roaring back in the House and the Senate in coming elections, and they'll win the presidency in 2012 unless they nominate another mealy-mouthed fence sitter like McCain.

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RE: 14% Jump in Healtchare Reform Approval - 9/10/2009 7:30:24 AM

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quote:

A house member heckling the president in a joint session of congress trumps a white house czar with a truther petition any time.

Real Clear Politics is featuring a "Flashback" this morning of Democrats booing president Bush during one of his state of the union speeches...

Double standards

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RE: 14% Jump in Healtchare Reform Approval - 9/10/2009 7:31:23 AM

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This is my favorite part of the whole thing:

But Sen. Tom Coburn (R-Okla.), one of Obama's most consistent critics, saw some room for compromise. "It was a good speech, the problem is that what he wants and what they've written are two totally different things," said Coburn, an OB-GYN. “I'm willing to compromise to get things fixed. But I'm not willing to put the government in charge because we don't have a good track record."

(The night's defining moment)

So, we have a member of the government telling us they are not to be trusted to be in charge of the government.

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RE: 14% Jump in Healtchare Reform Approval - 9/10/2009 7:32:51 AM

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We need more Senators just like that one!

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

This is my favorite part of the whole thing:

But Sen. Tom Coburn (R-Okla.), one of Obama's most consistent critics, saw some room for compromise. "It was a good speech, the problem is that what he wants and what they've written are two totally different things," said Coburn, an OB-GYN. “I'm willing to compromise to get things fixed. But I'm not willing to put the government in charge because we don't have a good track record."

(The night's defining moment)

So, we have a member of the government telling us they are not to be trusted to be in charge of the government.

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RE: 14% Jump in Healtchare Reform Approval - 9/10/2009 7:40:55 AM

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You mean those who have no faith in their own abilities?

Because what I heard him say was "we are really fuck-ups so you can't trust us to do anything right".

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RE: 14% Jump in Healtchare Reform Approval - 9/10/2009 7:53:08 AM

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No faith in career, life long fat-cat politicians. And he's right on the money!

Here's a great case in point for you, Obama's and the Democrats bestest buds, the Unions which contribute almost exclusively to the Democrats, will be feeding at the public trough at taxpayer expense under Obamacare:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203440104574400571702189240.html

There is no end to the friggin pork.

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RE: 14% Jump in Healtchare Reform Approval - 9/10/2009 8:11:36 AM

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i don't mean to hijack the thread Spinner (i have much admiration for the calm tenor you maintain when all about you are frothing at the mouth) but since someone brought up booing during a State of the Union address here's an interesting take on the Wilson outburst.....

Joe Wilson Can be Court-Martialed for Violating Article 88 of UCMJ
Rep. Joe Wilson who is a colonel in the Army Reserves can be court-martialed for violating Article 88 of the UCMJ

Article 88 of the UCMJ states

“Any commissioned officer who uses contemptuous words against the President, the Vice President, Congress, the Secretary of Defense, the Secretary of a military department, the Secretary of Transportation, or the Governor or legislature of any State, Territory, Commonwealth, or possession in which he is on duty or present shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.”

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RE: 14% Jump in Healtchare Reform Approval - 9/10/2009 8:17:08 AM

ThatDamnedPanda

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

quote:

A house member heckling the president in a joint session of congress trumps a white house czar with a truther petition any time.

Real Clear Politics is featuring a "Flashback" this morning of Democrats booing president Bush during one of his state of the union speeches...

Double standards

Where's the part about Democrats calling Bush a liar during that address? Or or are you just pulling shit out of your ass again?

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RE: 14% Jump in Healtchare Reform Approval - 9/10/2009 8:32:55 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

What poll are you looking at. Not this one...

quote:

The survey was released Wednesday before his nationally televised effort to persuade Congress and voters to back his drive to reshape the nation's $2.5 trillion-a-year medical system.

Why would we be looking at a poll done before the speech for the effects of the speech? Not even a good try at disinformation. You actually included the information showing the article was off topic in the part you quoted.

< Message edited by DomKen -- 9/10/2009 8:37:17 AM >

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RE: 14% Jump in Healtchare Reform Approval - 9/10/2009 8:36:02 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

What poll are you looking at. Not this one...

quote:

Obama disapproval on health care up to 52 percent

No, Sanity, I was not looking at that poll. As I mentioned, this thread is about the results of Obama's speech viewed in the light of political advantage and play, not policy. It would be silly to point to a poll demonstrating people's reaction to a speech before it was made.

The poll I am referring to is http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/09/09/obama.speech/

and it says: "Initial public response among those who watched the speech was positive, according to a CNN/Opinion Research Corporation poll. Two out of three Americans who watched the speech said they favor Obama's health care plans -- a 14-point gain from before the speech -- while 29 percent oppose the president's proposals, according to the pollsters."

Please do try to pay attention to the thread or you'll have to stay after the posts and clean the blackboards.

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RE: 14% Jump in Healtchare Reform Approval - 9/10/2009 9:17:59 AM

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That speech said absolutly nothing. Not one question on how it will be paid for was answered. He still thinks he's on the campaign trail.

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RE: 14% Jump in Healtchare Reform Approval - 9/10/2009 9:19:59 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

What poll are you looking at. Not this one...

quote:

Obama disapproval on health care up to 52 percent

WASHINGTON – Public disapproval of President Barack Obama's handling of health care has leaped to 52 percent, according to Associated Press-GfK poll that underscores the country's glowering mood as the White House made a renewed pitch for an overhaul.

Just 42 percent approve of the president's work on the high-profile health issue. The survey was released Wednesday before his nationally televised effort to persuade Congress and voters to back his drive to reshape the nation's $2.5 trillion-a-year medical system.

Spotlighting how Obama lost ground this summer, his latest approval figures on health were essentially reversed since July, when 50 percent approved of his health effort and just 43 percent disapproved.

***
The poll illustrates how difficult recent weeks have been for a president who, besides tackling health care, has been battling to end a devastatingly deep recession. Fifty percent approve and 49 percent disapprove of the overall job he is doing as president, compared to July, when those approving his performance clearly outnumbered those who were unhappy with it, 55 percent to 42 percent.
(Full article here).

The way things look to me, if things keep trending the way they are the Republicans are set to come roaring back in the House and the Senate in coming elections, and they'll win the presidency in 2012 unless they nominate another mealy-mouthed fence sitter like McCain.

Interesting that you accuse so many people of hi-jacking threads.

What in the hell does this have to do with the topic?

The topic was the spike in his numbers after the speech.

And you try to rebut that with an older poll?

Am I missing something here?

< Message edited by rulemylife -- 9/10/2009 9:25:44 AM >

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RE: 14% Jump in Healtchare Reform Approval - 9/10/2009 9:21:39 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

That speech said absolutly nothing. Not one question on how it will be paid for was answered. He still thinks he's on the campaign trail.

Nothing that you wanted to hear, apparently.

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RE: 14% Jump in Healtchare Reform Approval - 9/10/2009 9:40:24 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

That speech said absolutly nothing. Not one question on how it will be paid for was answered. He still thinks he's on the campaign trail.

Whether the speech said anything is a discussion on policy. Policy discussions are down the hall and to the left. This is a discussion of politics plain and simple. For purposes of this discussion, I don't care if Obama got up there and read Letters to Penthouse. A 14 point jump after a speech is impressive and shows why Obama is doing so well in the politics game.

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RE: 14% Jump in Healtchare Reform Approval - 9/10/2009 9:43:40 AM

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~ Fast Reply ~

The solution to the health care problem in the US was painfully obvious in last nights speech.

The country would be healthier and we wouldn't have so many people overweight if we all just did aerobic exercises like they did last night, getting up and down and applauding every 10 words.

We need more speeches from the President!

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RE: 14% Jump in Healtchare Reform Approval - 9/10/2009 9:45:44 AM

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Funny, the article itself mentions why the poll numbers aren't valid. In the next paragraph. But I guess Dems got to take any positive spin they can get.

"However, the audience for the speech appeared to be more Democratic than the U.S. population as a whole, causing the poll organizers to warn the results may favor Obama simply because more Democrats than Republicans tuned in.

In addition, the pollsters noted, the results don't reflect the the views of all Americans, only those who watched the speech"

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RE: 14% Jump in Healtchare Reform Approval - 9/10/2009 9:47:34 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

The way things look to me, if things keep trending the way they are the Republicans are set to come roaring back in the House and the Senate in coming elections, and they'll win the presidency in 2012 unless they nominate another mealy-mouthed fence sitter like McCain.

Now THIS is politics. Not that I agree with you. First, despite the fact that his approval ratings are going down, his popularity ratings are still quite high. In other words, people may have started doubting his policies but they still like him. That gives him an edge going in. Also, while his numbers are going down, the republicans numbers are not going up in any significant way. The people may not like his ideas, but they don't like the republican's ideas any more. Besides, the republicans have hitched their wagon to a very, very risky strategy for regaining power.

Second, just who are the republicans going to nominate? If they veer too far to the center, they're going to end up looking like "democrate lights", just as for a good while the democrats were trapped in the "republican lights" mode. Not only that, but in going anywhere near the center, they are going to disillusion and anger their current base, who are the far hard right. What they are going to have to find is a candidate far right enough to satisfy their ultra right wing core while at the same time being able to be taken seriously enough to win the moderate, independent and all important undecided voter.

There is still three and a half years left to see how things shake out, but barring a total economic collapse or another 9/11 (9/11 made George Bush's career but would kill Obamas for various reasons), I'd say it looks like Obama is in the catbird seat.

< Message edited by SpinnerofTales -- 9/10/2009 9:49:08 AM >

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