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RE: Raped Mistress? - 10/18/2009 5:37:05 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: subtlebutterfly
You can call everything rape. I could call my unsatisfactory one night stands a rape and could prosecute the ppls 'cause well I wasn't entirely sure if I wanted to fuck them or not.

Exactly why I am single and do *not* do one-night stands. I don't trust chicks not to have "second thoughts" a week later and point their finger at me.

What I've worked for is far more important than any one-night stand I could ever have.

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RE: Raped Mistress? - 10/18/2009 5:45:52 AM

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OP

Why didn't she say or do something about it the day she was raped?????

Diane

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RE: Raped Mistress? - 10/18/2009 5:46:10 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Loki45

quote:

ORIGINAL: subtlebutterfly
You can call everything rape. I could call my unsatisfactory one night stands a rape and could prosecute the ppls 'cause well I wasn't entirely sure if I wanted to fuck them or not.

Exactly why I am single and do *not* do one-night stands. I don't trust chicks not to have "second thoughts" a week later and point their finger at me.

What I've worked for is far more important than any one-night stand I could ever have.

Hey, did you know that false reports of rape happen less often than false reports of car theft? That reporting rape in this country's legal system is a humiliating, painful hell and that many, many women just cut their losses and give up? Did you know that staggering numbers of men who are legally accused of rape walk away scot-free, regardless of guilt, and have little if any social repercussions afterward?

I guess you don't have anything to worry about after all!

(in reply to Loki45)

RE: Raped Mistress? - 10/18/2009 5:53:19 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NovelApproach
Hey, did you know that false reports of rape happen less often than false reports of car theft?

And yet a false allegation of rape is FAR more damaging than a false report of car theft. Let's ask the Duke University Lacrosse players, or those 4 guys from that other college (the name escapes me) whose false accuser isn't even being charged with filing a false report. See, for those guys it doesn't matter that they were exhonorated. All they are in society's eyes are "those guys who raped that chick," whether it was true or not.

quote:

ORIGINAL: NovelApproach
That reporting rape in this country's legal system is a humiliating, painful hell and that many, many women just cut their losses and give up?

The men who are falsely accused can't "cut their losses and give up" they are branded rapists no matter what. Innocent until proven guilty means nothing in those cases.

quote:

ORIGINAL: NovelApproach
Did you know that staggering numbers of men who are legally accused of rape walk away scot-free, regardless of guilt, and have little if any social repercussions afterward?

Oh of course, so that makes it perfectly ok for women to cry rape when they weren't. What was I thinking?

You see, a real rape rapes a woman's body and mind. A false allegation rapes a man's life. Neither is worse than the other. As I'm a man, I dare say I don't need to fear the former. But the latter terrifies the shit out of me because there is even less that can be done about it. As a general rule, I don't trust anyone. But I trust women, and one-night stands in particular, far, far less.

< Message edited by Loki45 -- 10/18/2009 5:58:21 AM >

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RE: Raped Mistress? - 10/18/2009 6:04:53 AM

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I don't think there is a legal resolution to this.

Imagine her, and him, telling the story of that night repeatedly to a bunch of strangers who most likely do not know much of the nuances of a BDSM relationship or even a scene.

Most of them will hear the titillating details of what was done and what they were wearing etc.

And they will be asked to believe that sex was NOT supposed to happen?

Most won't understand that.

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RE: Raped Mistress? - 10/18/2009 6:07:37 AM

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quote:

She took a new prospective male submissive into private for the first time the other day. He persisted in "wanting to please" her sexually. For whatever reason, he managed to push things further and further and the session ended with her feeling strangely used and violated despite she was supposedly in control of the whole thing. Before the question comes up, yes she said no to many things and repeatedly and no. she did not struggle for unknown reason, probably just trying to get her mind around what was happening. What do you think? Was this rape?

ABSOLUTELY Not! I think calling a bad date rape is criminal, and disrispectful to women who've actually had this violence prepetrated on them. M

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RE: Raped Mistress? - 10/18/2009 6:24:03 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FullfigRIMAAM1
ABSOLUTELY Not! I think calling a bad date rape is criminal, and disrispectful to women who've actually had this violence prepetrated on them. M

Well said.

I think *real* rapists should be castrated with a rusty butterknife. I think that goes without saying for most when they hear of that type of crime. But, similarly, I think false accusers should have something criminal happen to them as well. As yet, I have yet to hear any false accuser getting into trouble...not even a slap on the wrist. That is sad. That says to everyone "Hey, point your finger at anyone you like, it's no problem. Even if you're lying, you won't get into trouble."

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RE: Raped Mistress? - 10/18/2009 6:32:42 AM

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quote:

reporting rape in this country's legal system is a humiliating, painful hell and that many, many women just cut their losses and give up?

Greetings Ma'am,
I think it is often so hard to prove, that women do often give up. When I was in high school, someone tried to rape me at a party. I had gone into a room to be by myself for a few minutes and a boy from school came in and sat down and talked to me a bit (I had been crying about something that had happened at the party). All of a sudden with no warning, he picked me up and started carrying me to the door- I thought he was trying to make me go back to the party and quit feeling sorry for myself- but he wasn't. He locked the door, threw me on the ground, put his elbow on my throat and started trying to pull off my jeans. Luckily, the latch on the door didn't work right and, after a few minutes, someone walked in. She saw us on the ground, said "oops sorry" and walked out again. But the distraction released the pressure on my throat for a second and I seized the chance to jump up and run out. I told a couple of my friends- at first they believed me, but then later even they began to doubt it and question it- was I sure, maybe I imagined it, maybe this, maybe that... I thought about reporting it- at least to the school- but the only witness had obviously thought it was consensual, AND I managed to get away, so it was only attempted rape. How the hell could I prove that? It's hard enough to prove a case when you HAVE been raped. So I didn't bother- even though I felt he was a danger to others-because it would have gone no where. I just avoided the kid as best I could because he scared the crap out of me. But I often wondered what became of that boy and I would not be surprised if he wound up in jail at some point. So, yeah, we do give up.

Regards,
anna

< Message edited by AnnaOfAramis -- 10/18/2009 6:34:38 AM >

(in reply to NovelApproach)

RE: Raped Mistress? - 10/18/2009 6:49:05 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FullfigRIMAAM1
ABSOLUTELY Not! I think calling a bad date rape is criminal, and disrispectful to women who've actually had this violence prepetrated on them. M

Really? I think belittling rape as a "bad date" is pretty disrespectful and makes life harder on rape survivors. As someone who was "actually" violently raped in my college years, I'd like to repeat something a friend of mine said once.

quote:

There does not exist the possibility of cheapening rape and abuse if rape and abuse are considered to be inherently horrible and wrong. No matter how few or how many victims, it is inherently horrible and wrong for each of them. There exists the possibility of becoming desensitized to the horribleness and wrongness when the number of victims reaches critical mass, but there does not exist the possibility of rape and abuse no longer being horrible and wrong based on context.

These ideas — the cheapening of abuse and women who "make it worse for other women" — can only exist if one already believes that abuse can be cheapened, and that some people deserve to be abused. If we believed that abuse was always wrong, no matter who the victim, or who the perpetrator, or what the circumstance, abuse could not possibly be cheapened, and no woman could disrespect another's experience by disclosing her own.

@AnnaofAramis - thanks for sharing that. I'm so glad that boy didn't end up being able to hurt you.

Also, you've helped me to illustrate a point I would be trying to make if I wasn't too tired to be anything but bitchy - that women who disclose sexual violence face doubt, even from close friends and loved ones, because the truth is painful to face. Additionally, it has been my experience that men who have been exposed as rapists or attempted rapists often have these same loved ones rally around them because they honestly can't believe that he would do something like that. It's explained away as "boys will be boys" and "you were leading him on" and "he wouldn't do that, you must be lying."

ETA - All that said, I think this discussion is detracting from the thread and the topic at hand. I hereby pledge not to post anything else that is orthogonal to the OP.

< Message edited by NovelApproach -- 10/18/2009 6:59:06 AM >

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RE: Raped Mistress? - 10/18/2009 7:00:27 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FullfigRIMAAM1

quote:

She took a new prospective male submissive into private for the first time the other day. He persisted in "wanting to please" her sexually. For whatever reason, he managed to push things further and further and the session ended with her feeling strangely used and violated despite she was supposedly in control of the whole thing. Before the question comes up, yes she said no to many things and repeatedly and no. she did not struggle for unknown reason, probably just trying to get her mind around what was happening. What do you think? Was this rape?
ABSOLUTELY Not! I think calling a bad date rape is criminal, and disrispectful to women who've actually had this violence prepetrated on them. M

So, in your mind a guy can have sex with you, you can say no but because you did not struggle it is just a bad date?

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RE: Raped Mistress? - 10/18/2009 7:01:30 AM

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I don't know if it was rape or not, but I hope someone takes the male in question aside, and in no uncertain terms, lets him know he is at the least walking a thin line.

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RE: Raped Mistress? - 10/18/2009 7:05:34 AM

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quote:

lovingpet
She took a new prospective male submissive into private for the first time the other day. He persisted in "wanting to please" her sexually. For whatever reason, he managed to push things further and further and the session ended with her feeling strangely used and violated despite she was supposedly in control of the whole thing.

quote:

angelikaJ
So, in your mind a guy can have sex with you, you can say no but because you did not struggle it is just a bad date?

Where does it say that she said no?    The OP even states she was in control of the whole thing...   I know, women are weak, so it's rape?    Say no phucking way, and get out, if you can.   All I read about in the profiles and on these boards is "I want someone to push my limits."

Novel, your friend was eloquent, but she did not describe exactly what rape was, and neither are you describing it.   As others have said, many of us have had moments where we let things go too far, and later felt icky.    If I'm not under the influence of an unknown drug, and I'm not fighting/tryingnto get the hell out of there, I consider it an attempt at a connection gone wrong. I didn't want to take responsibility for the single instance this happened to me, and I knew nothing of dominance and submission at that time.

I do know however, that I have brothers, and indeed if they were criminals, I would be the first one to cast a stone...   But, I would get as vehemently offended, if some woman took them home, didn't find them to be ubber/proper submissives or dominants, and she decided to ruin their lives with an accusation of rape.
My opinion on the initial post, indicating she may have said no to some things, is absolutely not tantamount to rape in my opinion.

I love and respect women, but no one gets a free pass to crucify the other sex based on icky, I shouldn't have gone there feeling.    M

< Message edited by FullfigRIMAAM1 -- 10/18/2009 7:22:39 AM >

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RE: Raped Mistress? - 10/18/2009 7:17:51 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: lovingpet

I've kind of kept her opinion out of it intentionally, but since the question has been raised, she does believe it to be rape. She is highly conflicted about what to do about it and ended any further dealings with the man immediately after this incident (read as soon as she could do it from the safety of her home and computer screen).

lovingpet

Did this take place inside her home?

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RE: Raped Mistress? - 10/18/2009 7:20:59 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ShaktiSama

And I can say from experience that sometimes, social solutions are helpful, in that they help prevent more people being victimized. Call it "gossip" if you will, but a guy who tries to force sex on women of any orientation deserves to be wearing a few red flags.

This "gossip" can get the gossipee in a world of legal hurt, if the subject of the gossip chooses to pursue it. If he hasn't been legally charged and convicted, then under our law, he is innocent. Calling someone a rapist without the evidence to back it up is liable, or character defirmation, and is illegal, no matter how morally sound you think it is.

The problem with this situation is that it was a sexually charged situation (at least for me) that went further than one of the participants wanted. And the one who was raped was the one (nominally) that was in charge. I think more people are having trouble with the power exchange part than the rape part. The power exchange would suggest that nothing happened that she didn't initiate or agree with, even if she said no, because as the dom she could have stopped the action at any time.

Regardless of wheither she was a prostitute with a john on the street corner, or a housewife in her home, humans have the right to say no, and expect to have that no honored.

Why, when she was in charge, she chose not to physically intervene i don't know, and it really isn't germane to the topic, she said no, he chose not to obey.

However, i do think this woman needs to re-examine her motives and methods for and of domming. She needs to know why she didn't enforce her no with a stern grasp on the balls or nipples. She can't put herself into a situation where she doesn't have control, or can't enforce control. And obviously she can't enforce control physically if a man wishes to press the point, but she should be very plain in the way she says no - verbally and physically.

< Message edited by kiwisub12 -- 10/18/2009 7:22:42 AM >

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RE: Raped Mistress? - 10/18/2009 7:23:08 AM

zephyroftheNorth

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FullfigRIMAAM1

quote:

lovingpet
She took a new prospective male submissive into private for the first time the other day. He persisted in "wanting to please" her sexually. For whatever reason, he managed to push things further and further and the session ended with her feeling strangely used and violated despite she was supposedly in control of the whole thing.

quote:

angelikaJ
So, in your mind a guy can have sex with you, you can say no but because you did not struggle it is just a bad date?
Where does it say that she said no?    The OP even states she was in control of the whole thing...   I know, women are weak, so it's rape?    Say no phucking way, and get out, if you can.   All I read about in the profiles and on these boards is "I want someone to push my limits."

Novel, your friend was eloquent, but she did not describe exactly what rape was, and neither are you describing it.   As others have said, many of us have had moments where we let things go too far, and later felt icky.    If I'm not under the influence of an unknown drug, and I'm not fighting/tryingn to get the hell out of there, I consider it an attempt at a connection gone wrong.

I didn't want to take responsibility for the single instance this happened to me, and I knew nothing of dominance and submission at that time.

I do know however, that I have brothers, and indeed if they were criminals, I would be the first one to cast a stone...   But, I would get as vehemently offended, if some woman took them home, didn't find them to be ubber/proper submissives or dominants, and she decided to ruin theirl lives with an accusation of rape.
My opinion on the initial post, indicating she may have said no to some things, is absolutely not tantamount to rape in my opinion.

I love and respect women, but no one gets a free pass to crucify the other sex based on icky, I shouldn't have gone there feeling.    M

Quoted from the OP: " Before the question comes up, yes she said no to many things and repeatedly and no." Good enough for ya? So yes, it was rape, she said no repeatedly and was ignored.

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RE: Raped Mistress? - 10/18/2009 7:28:50 AM

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The minute things felt "off", she should have said "NO" to EVERYTHING, period! Not, "okay

to this, and 'not really" to that, etc.
I don't do one nighters, because I don't want that kind of misunderstandings happening with me.
You clearly feel differently than I do, and no, under the previously described circumstances, I don't believe a rape occurred. I would however encourage the ambivalenet person to talk to a district attorney and press on if she feels strongly about the incident.
Me, I try to work out my major issues before going on a date where sex might happen. M

< Message edited by FullfigRIMAAM1 -- 10/18/2009 7:29:38 AM >

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RE: Raped Mistress? - 10/18/2009 7:29:28 AM

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Okay, I'm going to address this because I feel that it's relevant to the discussion.

quote:

ORIGINAL: FullfigRIMAAM1
Where does it say that she said no? The OP even states she was in control of the whole thing... I know, women are weak, so it's rape? Say no phucking way, and get out, if you can. All I read about in the profiles and on these boards is "I want someone to push my limits."

In several of the OP's later posts, she clarifies that her friend, did, in fact, say no. She also says, in the first post, that the reason her friend felt so confused is that she was SUPPOSED to have been in charge, not that she was.

quote:

Novel, your friend was eloquent, but she did not describe exactly what rape was, and neither are you describing it. As others have said, many of us have had moments where we let things go too far, and later felt icky. If I'm not under the influence of an unknown drug, and I'm not fighting/tryingn to get the hell out of there, I consider it an attempt at a connection gone wrong.

I didn't want to take responsibility for the single instance this happened to me, and I knew nothing of dominance and submission at that time.

My definition of sexual assault, shared by the friend I quoted and by most state laws is "sexual contact of any kind made against one participant's wishes." My definition of rape, also shared by this friend and many state laws is "penetrative sex that occurs without one participant's express consent or after said consent has been withdrawn." Clear enough? Of course, the legal definition means nothing in the face of a system run by people who hold on to different understandings of the terms.

quote:

I love and respect women, but no one gets a free pass to crucify the other sex based on icky, I shouldn't have gone there feeling. M

Icky, I-shouldn't-have-gone-there feelings don't happen in the face of truly loving, respectful interactions between partners. Just saying.

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RE: Raped Mistress? - 10/18/2009 7:33:00 AM

zephyroftheNorth

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FullfigRIMAAM1

The minute things felt "off", she should have said "NO" to EVERYTHING, period!    Not, "okay to this, and 'not really" to that, etc.
I don't do one nighters, because I don't want that kind of misunderstandings happening with me.
You clearly feel differently than I do, and no, under the previously described circumstances, I don't believe a rape occurred.    I would however encourage the ambivalenet person to talk to a district attorney and press on if she feels strongly about the incident.
Me, I try to work out my major issues before going on a date where sex might happen.     M

Yeah hindsight is 20/20 in the moment not so much. It is exactly attitudes like this that make women think twice about reporting rape and sexual assault.

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RE: Raped Mistress? - 10/18/2009 7:36:25 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NovelApproach
Icky, I-shouldn't-have-gone-there feelings don't happen in the face of truly loving, respectful interactions between partners. Just saying.

I agree. Truly loving, respectful interactions between partners, don't just happen between random people... They need to be cultivated by time, or a strong sense of self/common sense/empathy.

quote:

NovelApproach
most state laws is "sexual contact of any kind made against one participant's wishes."

So, one can attribute any bad sex to rape? Oh lord, the husbands and wives who have mediocre sex are phucked.

quote:

In several of the OP's later posts, she clarifies that her friend, did, in fact, say no.

When did she say no, and to what exactly?! When did she start saying no, and when did she lose the ability to stop everything? Is the lady under the influence of a drug, or enjoying things up to a point?

quote:

Yeah hindsight is 20/20 in the moment not so much. It is exactly attitudes like this that make women think twice about reporting rape and sexual assault.

So, your opinion is that women should not be held accountable for their decisions at the time, just their regrets after the fact?
I'm sorry if thinking about the other participant (whom I don't know or care about beyond my humanity) offends you, and is oppressive to women. M

< Message edited by FullfigRIMAAM1 -- 10/18/2009 7:40:13 AM >

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RE: Raped Mistress? - 10/18/2009 7:56:05 AM

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~FR~

I had no idea this thread had ressurected, but I will have to come back later to respond. Thanks for all the input and I hope to post later on today.

lovingpet

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