RE: Feminism

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Andalusite -> RE: Feminism (10/14/2009 5:36:17 PM)
ShaktiSama, there are actually a lot of men on "cheer squads," especially at the University level. http://www.montanagrizzlies.com/pages/default.aspx?p=55&m=212

PeonForHer -> RE: Feminism (10/14/2009 6:40:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Andalusite ShaktiSama, there are actually a lot of men on "cheer squads," especially at the University level. http://www.montanagrizzlies.com/pages/default.aspx?p=55&m=212 Oh good god. Where will it end? They tried cheerleaders at football matches here in the UK, for a while. It might still be happening - I haven't wanted to find out. It just wasn't the same. Bleak British weather with its freezing winter rain, girls with goosepimples and rictus grins. And the football fans didn't behave appropriately at all. Relentless heckling along the lines of "Get 'em off!" and "Get yer tits out!" Deeply, deeply tawdry. Much wincing all round.

Andalusite -> RE: Feminism (10/14/2009 7:01:37 PM)
Montana's a lot colder than England. [;)]

PeonForHer -> RE: Feminism (10/14/2009 7:11:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Andalusite Montana's a lot colder than England. [;)] The British cold penetrates, Anda. It claws its way ruthlessly into your soul itself.

DemonKia -> RE: Feminism (10/14/2009 7:22:40 PM)
Which reminds me, weren't the George Bushes (or at least the younger one) cheerleaders in college? quote: ORIGINAL: Andalusite ShaktiSama, there are actually a lot of men on "cheer squads," especially at the University level. http://www.montanagrizzlies.com/pages/default.aspx?p=55&m=212

ShaktiSama -> RE: Feminism (10/14/2009 10:14:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Andalusite ShaktiSama, there are actually a lot of men on "cheer squads," especially at the University level. http://www.montanagrizzlies.com/pages/default.aspx?p=55&m=212 Um...yeah. Did you notice the additional proviso about the costumes that I envision male cheerleaders wearing? Because the picture of this squad speaks volumes about how male and female sexuality are being packaged and sold to the crowd. Show me a squad of hot heterosexual men wearing nothing but their tighty-whities or some similarly crotch- and ass-hugging ensemble and cheering for all-female sports which actually produce significant scholarships at the collegiate level and significant incomes and endorsement contracts at the professional level. Then I will be impressed. Until then? Sexist bullshit.

NihilusZero -> RE: Feminism (10/14/2009 10:16:46 PM)
[edit] Meh. Incomplete answer on my part. [/edit]

LadyHibiscus -> RE: Feminism (10/15/2009 8:11:00 AM)
Male cheer squads dressed in latex shorts. I might even suffer through part of that game to watch that.

LaTigresse -> RE: Feminism (10/15/2009 8:17:31 AM)
Hey, I suffer through it to watch the female cheerleaders! (unfortunately they are not on television much........and I rarely have the patience to sit through a foot ball game......) For me, feminism is the power of choice.........that's it in a nutshell. IF a woman wants to be a cheerleader.........yeah for her. If a woman wants to use her body in any way, for any purpose she wishes........I support her choice to do so. To believe otherwise would, for me, be hypocritical.

LadyHibiscus -> RE: Feminism (10/15/2009 8:37:17 AM)
Can't Generic Dude just call you when it's halftime?

PeonForHer -> RE: Feminism (10/15/2009 9:14:58 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LaTigresse Hey, I suffer through it to watch the female cheerleaders! (unfortunately they are not on television much........and I rarely have the patience to sit through a foot ball game......) For me, feminism is the power of choice.........that's it in a nutshell. IF a woman wants to be a cheerleader.........yeah for her. If a woman wants to use her body in any way, for any purpose she wishes........I support her choice to do so. To believe otherwise would, for me, be hypocritical. Unfortunately, it gets complicated. A woman becoming a cheerleader helps to perpetuate a certain aspect of a (sexist) culture. Other women - younger girls, more likely - will be that bit more encouraged to take part . . . (Ultra-skinny fashion models get this charge levelled at them more frequently.) It boils down to the same old liberal equation: that one person's freedom can lead to another's oppression.

PeonForHer -> RE: Feminism (10/15/2009 9:17:05 AM)
I've heard of a sport called "lunchpack volleyball", Lady Hib. That might be up your street. The male players wear exactly the cheesecutter shorts you specify.

LaTigresse -> RE: Feminism (10/15/2009 9:21:02 AM)
LadyHib..........he is too busy flipping channels most of the time to notice. Another reason I don't pay attention to it. Peon, I agree to a point. However, to oppress anyone's freedom.........just because it upsets someone's sensibilities I am not so much in support of. I would rather support education, teaching people to be empowered. So that the expression of others has no affect on their individual sense of self.

OttersSwim -> RE: Feminism (10/15/2009 9:34:32 AM)
To me, feminism is all about telling your child, "Yes honey, you can be the President, and a cheerleader too." Gender of the child should be meaningless in this statement. If I had been raised to be the person I am today, I would have made a great cheerleader in my little skirt...and if I had been born in the U.S., I might just have had a shot at President too if I had put my mind to it. [;)]

PeonForHer -> RE: Feminism (10/15/2009 9:35:27 AM)
I would rather support education, teaching people to be empowered. So that the expression of others has no affect on their individual sense of self. That puts a huge burden on educators - but I think it gets towards a solution that might work. The reality is that practical solutions to these sorts of dilemmas have to be much more sophisticated and nuanced than people often think. Myself, if I had a daughter, I just wouldn't want her to go to a school that had taken on board this cheerleading idea. Most of the schools and colleges in the UK haven't, fortunately. There's something about it, beneath whatever sexism is involved, that makes me shiver in horror.

LaTigresse -> RE: Feminism (10/15/2009 11:14:02 AM)
I was not thinking in terms of public education......you see I believe in parental responsibility.......parents teaching their daughters these things. And support in the sense of promoting. In addition, I was not speaking in the context of children, I was talking about grown women making educated choices.

PeonForHer -> RE: Feminism (10/15/2009 11:21:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LaTigresse In addition, I was not speaking in the context of children, I was talking about grown women making educated choices. OK. Point of info: At what age do kids become cheerleaders in the US/Canada? Are we talking high school, or earlier?

LaTigresse -> RE: Feminism (10/15/2009 11:40:24 AM)
Peon.........I know there are kids doing it in high school, earlier than that, that I am not sure. It was not something my daughter had any interest in and my son was only involved in sports that do not have them.

PeonForHer -> RE: Feminism (10/15/2009 11:43:11 AM)
Ah. OK. Thanks.

Wheldrake -> RE: Feminism (10/15/2009 2:31:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LaTigresse Peon, I agree to a point. However, to oppress anyone's freedom.........just because it upsets someone's sensibilities I am not so much in support of. I would rather support education, teaching people to be empowered. So that the expression of others has no affect on their individual sense of self. Yes, I strongly agree with this. If we try too hard to suppress anything that seems disturbing, or that "sends the wrong message", we'll end up in a kind of totalitarian dictatorship of the sensitive and easily influenced. It seems so much better to take advantage of our human capacity to decide which messages are worth paying attention to, and disregard the others. Even if you happen to be an adult baby fetishist, there are better ways to get your fix than to succumb to the cloying embrace of the nanny state!

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