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RE: Why do some Masters feel that they have to lie? - 11/10/2009 4:44:23 AM   
Acer49


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Muirren

Or cover up things, and then when you have caught them, they try covering up again? I really would like to have a mans opinion on this, especially a Master.


There is no reason to lie, a "Master" does not lie ever


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Never be bullied into silence. Never allow yourself to be made a victim. Accept no one's definition of your life; define yourself.
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RE: Why do some Masters feel that they have to lie? - 11/10/2009 6:00:20 AM   
DarkSteven


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Malkinius

For most people if they add an honorific to their name or nick, it usually means they are not what they claim to be. Thus the Malkinius Rule Of Nicks: If you have to add a title to your nick to show what you are, you aren't.

Be well....

Malkinius



I beg to differ.

- High Lord UberMaster of the Universe and Ye Only Twue God DarkSteven


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"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

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RE: Why do some Masters feel that they have to lie? - 11/10/2009 7:40:00 AM   
mnottertail


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Why would you ask me this question, OP? I am just going to lie to you anyhow.

Ron

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RE: Why do some Masters feel that they have to lie? - 11/10/2009 8:34:42 AM   
crazyml


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Hmm - where does it say that masters are held to a higher standard and live by a code of ethics?

Some Doms certainly do live ethically, or at least try to, and some accept that their position of power implies responsibilities, but I don't think you can say that's a general rule...

I try to make a point of not judging who is a "true dom" and who isn't - largely because (in me experience) most of the self styled "true doms" I've encountered are sad jackasses... But I think that over time you'll develop a pretty good radar - so don't worry too much.. In the meantime, assume that any guy who contacts you just wants a quick wank... And work back from there

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RE: Why do some Masters feel that they have to lie? - 11/11/2009 3:36:02 AM   
Elizabeth666


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i read most of the thread and to answer your original question about lying: Why do some lie? Because they're human. It doesn't matter if you are kinky or vanilla, it's what humans do. Everyone lies.

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RE: Why do some Masters feel that they have to lie? - 11/11/2009 3:54:23 AM   
Acer49


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Elizabeth666

i read most of the thread and to answer your original question about lying: Why do some lie? Because they're human. It doesn't matter if you are kinky or vanilla, it's what humans do. Everyone lies.

no everyone does not lie, only people of lesser character do

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Never be bullied into silence. Never allow yourself to be made a victim. Accept no one's definition of your life; define yourself.
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RE: Why do some Masters feel that they have to lie? - 11/11/2009 4:05:11 AM   
Elizabeth666


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Acer49


quote:

ORIGINAL: Elizabeth666

i read most of the thread and to answer your original question about lying: Why do some lie? Because they're human. It doesn't matter if you are kinky or vanilla, it's what humans do. Everyone lies.

no everyone does not lie, only people of lesser character do


Can you honestly say not everyone lies? We all do and have at some point in our lives, depending on the extent or magnitude of the lie. Whether it's why homework isn't done, why someone was late for work, or to hide and cover something up. Everyone lies.

But, i'm not going to get into a debate about it. You have your opinion, i have mine.

< Message edited by Elizabeth666 -- 11/11/2009 4:07:50 AM >

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RE: Why do some Masters feel that they have to lie? - 11/11/2009 4:09:15 AM   
Aileen1968


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Muirren

This is someone that has been in the lifestyle for quite a while AND has references. I just happened to be the only one that finally saw through the facade. How dare you judge me. I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed person!


Well that just goes to show you how good those references were....

If you honestly think that someone who calls himself a dom has higher ethics just because of that word then that's your number one problem and you will continually be taken advantage of.

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RE: Why do some Masters feel that they have to lie? - 11/11/2009 4:32:33 AM   
AnnaOfAramis


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quote:

where does it say that masters are held to a higher standard and live by a code of ethics?


A dominant man is just that, dominant and that doesn't say anything about the tactics he may or may nor use. All animals and humans display dominant and submissive traits. Unfortunately, there are many who dub themselves "master." I think the word is too freely used. There are many artists but few whom history calls the Masters. There are many who do martial arts, and few who have gained such a high level that people call them master. No one is ever going to become my Master, unless he does live by a higher standard and code of ethics. Does this mean they are infallible? No, but making the occasional mistake is different than it just being their modus operandi- and generally those who are at that standard of Master, are also quick to admit their mistakes and own them, because they are constantly striving to improve themselves and be better men. Personally, if they can't master themselves, then I do not believe they are ready to master anyone else. Perhaps it is the fault of us subs for accepting lower standards?

well wishes,
anna



< Message edited by AnnaOfAramis -- 11/11/2009 4:39:04 AM >


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RE: Why do some Masters feel that they have to lie? - 11/11/2009 4:45:28 AM   
CarrieO


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quote:

ORIGINAL: AnnaOfAramis

Personally, if they can't master themselves, then I do not believe they are ready to master anyone else. Perhaps it is the fault of us subs for accepting lower standards?



Well said.

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RE: Why do some Masters feel that they have to lie? - 11/11/2009 5:11:49 AM   
Icarys


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quote:

Perhaps it is the fault of us subs for accepting lower standards?


I picked this last line only because the rest of what you said I agree with.

You say this as if you could always discern what from what when it comes to all Dominants. I know we may like to think we can but it's just not true. The OP sounds like to me that she didn't accept a lower standard at all but once she found out he wasn't who he said he was or who she thought him to be..She left. I don't know of too many submissive's that wouldn't do the same.

I'm saying this of course because I don't know any submissives that have such a low self esteem that they would stay with someone that lied or cheated or the like.

You can't always see everything right off the bat. We all have been fooled from time to time. I know I have. Can't watch every move a person makes every second of the day and if you feel you have too..It might not be the only possible sign but it may be worth looking into.


_____________________________

submission - the feeling of patient, submissive humbleness - the state of being submissive or compliant; meekness.

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RE: Why do some Masters feel that they have to lie? - 11/11/2009 5:16:38 AM   
GYPSYMAMBO


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OP:

teachers lie..cowboys lie..introverts lie..extroverts lie..humans lie..subs lie..DOMS lie..but not all..
PPL feel a need to lie for various reasons but the results are nearly always the same..
a pile of steaming shit hard to get out of..

When I ask potential subs what an ultimate deal breaker is for them: it is ALWAYS LYING..
and I feel the same..

GM


< Message edited by GYPSYMAMBO -- 11/11/2009 5:17:36 AM >

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RE: Why do some Masters feel that they have to lie? - 11/11/2009 11:10:05 AM   
justagirlinzh


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Muirren

littlewonder, I ask because Masters are held to a higher standard and live by a code of ethics.

This delusion is your problem to deal with. The lying is their problem, and it sucks to be lied to and they were jerks to do so. But this happened twice to you in one year and perhaps part of the reason they were able to pull one over on you is because you were susceptible to their bullshit to begin with.

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RE: Why do some Masters feel that they have to lie? - 11/11/2009 11:19:03 AM   
AquaticSub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: AnnaOfAramis

quote:

where does it say that masters are held to a higher standard and live by a code of ethics?


A dominant man is just that, dominant and that doesn't say anything about the tactics he may or may nor use. All animals and humans display dominant and submissive traits. Unfortunately, there are many who dub themselves "master." I think the word is too freely used. There are many artists but few whom history calls the Masters.

Except as an art major, I can tell you there is huge debate regarding who is a master, what is an artist and not all artists accept the "masters" as the masters.
quote:



There are many who do martial arts, and few who have gained such a high level that people call them master.

Except that the point of martial arts isn't to attain some huge amount of skill. Speaking as a martial artist who attained a black belt, the point is train yourself and to gain discipline, and respect for those around you. While those who train for a long time and attain an incredible amount of skill are respected highly, isn't a big "OMG IT'S TEH MASTER" deal.
quote:



No one is ever going to become my Master, unless he does live by a higher standard and code of ethics. Does this mean they are infallible? No, but making the occasional mistake is different than it just being their modus operandi- and generally those who are at that standard of Master, are also quick to admit their mistakes and own them, because they are constantly striving to improve themselves and be better men. Personally, if they can't master themselves, then I do not believe they are ready to master anyone else. Perhaps it is the fault of us subs for accepting lower standards?

well wishes,
anna




And what are these mythical "higher standards" that are so much better than what every other decent, honorable human being lives by? Can they spin straw into gold? Will they never forget a birthday, never screw up at all? Never, ever, ever get angry and cause me to cry?

Val doesn't have higher standards but he's an honorable man. He doesn't lie to me except to surprise me. He cares about his community and encourages me to go out and volunteer since I'm the one with free time. He encourages me to grow as a person, supporting my hobbies and allowing me to go off on my own. He's a great man, in my humble little opinion. But these aren't higher standards. These are the standards I held all of my partners to. Maybe we should stop regarding a dominant being a decent person as magical and just expect it and move on when they aren't.

< Message edited by AquaticSub -- 11/11/2009 11:21:41 AM >


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Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

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RE: Why do some Masters feel that they have to lie? - 11/11/2009 11:27:21 AM   
AnnaOfAramis


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quote:

You say this as if you could always discern what from what when it comes to all Dominants. I know we may like to think we can but it's just not true.


Greetings Sir, you are absolutely right. We do fall for dominants who are not what we think they are, and then we are very good at rationalizing away our doubts... "he can't have been lying, he just forgot" ... etc. Been there, done that, lol. We often want so much to have found someone who fits the bill, and then we find it's not true. Often it takes so long to find out, that one is already emotionally invested by that point too.

Thanks for pointing this out Sir.

Well wishes,
anna

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in obsequium hominis

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RE: Why do some Masters feel that they have to lie? - 11/11/2009 7:58:57 PM   
Icarys


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quote:

Greetings Sir, you are absolutely right. We do fall for dominants who are not what we think they are, and then we are very good at rationalizing away our doubts... "he can't have been lying, he just forgot" ... etc. Been there, done that, lol. We often want so much to have found someone who fits the bill, and then we find it's not true. Often it takes so long to find out, that one is already emotionally invested by that point too.


This of course is possible for both sides.

Well Wishes.


_____________________________

submission - the feeling of patient, submissive humbleness - the state of being submissive or compliant; meekness.

Alaska Bound-The Official Countdown Has Started!
http://tinyurl.com/872mcu3
http://alturl.com/mog7m

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RE: Why do some Masters feel that they have to lie? - 11/12/2009 5:26:16 AM   
daddysliloneds


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Muirren

Or cover up things, and then when you have caught them, they try covering up again? I really would like to have a mans opinion on this, especially a Master.


it's because they are the master and how dare you question, doubt or confront them on anything, ha, ha, ha!

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RE: Why do some Masters feel that they have to lie? - 11/12/2009 7:49:56 AM   
SirRussellP


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The only person that can make me a Master is my slave.  To lie to that person is to lie to myself, to break the bond with her.  To lie to another is unexceptable but then there are those times that the truth needlessly harms someone.  Those all most all of do.



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RE: Why do some Masters feel that they have to lie? - 11/12/2009 9:39:49 AM   
leadership527


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Acer49
There is no reason to lie, a "Master" does not lie ever
Wow... really? I'm 45 years old and in those 45 years, I have lied god knows how many times. I'm still pretty thoroughly human and that includes a wide assortment of failings. Ascension is not anywhere in my near term future *laughs*. Oddly, none of that stops Carol from seeing me as a respect worthy human. In fact, in my overall experience, it is the people who attempt to appear inhumanly perfect who are the most suspect.


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I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

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RE: Why do some Masters feel that they have to lie? - 11/12/2009 12:51:18 PM   
AnnaOfAramis


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quote:

Except as an art major, I can tell you there is huge debate regarding who is a master, what is an artist and not all artists accept the "masters" as the masters.


Doubtless there is also as much variance in who I would accept as a master versus who some other slave would accept as a master. Each person is unique and requires their own set of qualities in order to be mastered. I am not going to be mastered by the same person as another girl who is different than me.

quote:

Except that the point of martial arts isn't to attain some huge amount of skill. Speaking as a martial artist who attained a black belt, the point is train yourself and to gain discipline, and respect for those around you. While those who train for a long time and attain an incredible amount of skill are respected highly, isn't a big "OMG IT'S TEH MASTER" deal.


Perfect! My point exactly. I wasn't referring to skill. But to train yourself and to gain discipline, and respect for those around you which is exactly what I think a master does- strive to improve himself and be the best man he can be.

quote:

And what are these mythical "higher standards" that are so much better than what every other decent, honorable human being lives by?

No they are not mythical and they are not better than any other decent, honourable human being. They simply are people whom I include in that category of "decent honorable human beings"- which is unfortunately a fairly small group nowadays. By "higher standards" I mean higher than those of the people who are not decent or honourable... like the ones who deliberately deceive, (as the OP was asking), who use people for their own gain, who back stab, who cheat etc. etc. Yes, I expect a higher standard than that.

quote:

Will they never forget a birthday, never screw up at all? Never, ever, ever get angry and cause me to cry?

Perhaps you missed the part of my post where I said "Does this mean they are infallible? No, but making the occasional mistake is different than it just being their modus operandi- and generally those who are at that standard of Master, are also quick to admit their mistakes and own them" Naturally they screw up, but my point is that there is a difference between someone who is aiming to do the right thing and errs, versus someone who is simply unscrupulous.

quote:

But these aren't higher standards. These are the standards I held all of my partners to. Maybe we should stop regarding a dominant being a decent person as magical and just expect it and move on when they aren't


If you move on when people don't meet these standards, than you are holding the people you select as partners to a higher standard than those you don't select. So you do hold them to "higher standards." No one is looking for dominants to be magical or mythical or to be some higher supreme being like the Buddha-they'd be waiting a very long time, lol. As I started out saying, dominance is just a characteristic and has nothing to do with scruples and character. But for someone to master me, they would have to be a decent person, otherwise I simply wouldn't admire them and look up to them. We all have our own lines of what we will accept or not.

Regards,
anna

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