RE: Which do you consider more of a committment a collar or a wedding ring?

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RE: Which do you consider more of a committment a colla... - 11/13/2009 2:27:29 PM

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Where I come from wedding bands have two purposes. First they are used as an engagement bands (theres no such things as giving a woman a huge engagement ring) where both parties have it on their right ring finger. When married the rings are moved over to the left ring finger and they become wedding bands. Some people buy two pairs, one silver for the engagement and replace it with golden upon marriage, but most use the same pair.

So for me, engagement/wedding bands have eons more significance than a collar would ever have.

(in reply to DrkJourney)

RE: Which do you consider more of a committment a colla... - 11/13/2009 3:07:40 PM

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More? I don't see it as a quantitative thing at all. They are simply different. For many, it is the same equivalent commitment, just in a different context. I personally view them as the same. I commit to one with a wedding ring and to that same person or another with a collar and their significance are the same. I would be equally devestated to have to determine to leave a marriage or a collared relationship. I would work and fight for that relationship with all I had. Both I would not enter lightly. Both I wouldn't exit thoughtlessly. Then again, I take ALL commitment very seriously.

lovingpet

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If you put your head into more, you'd have to put your back into less. ~Me

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(in reply to Viridana)

RE: Which do you consider more of a committment a colla... - 11/13/2009 3:39:10 PM

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They are one in the same. Each is a SYMBOL of the commitment made. It's the commitment that's important. The symbol is just a way to show it off to your friends. Unless, of course, you attach a leash to it and chain her to the floor.

(in reply to DrkJourney)

RE: Which do you consider more of a committment a colla... - 11/13/2009 4:17:59 PM

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winterlight,

I view both as manifestations of that person's interpretation of what commitment means to them. Attempting to assign associations to either would merely be projecting my perception onto His reality. Particularly since I cannot collar myself. However, in the spirit of the question posed I would surmise that the collar is a symbol of our bond as Master and slave that is bestowed when He deems it appropriate.

A wedding ring carries societal recognition and legal rights that He may wish to make available to me both for matrimonial/emotional purposes and to secure my well being financially. I place a higher regard on the sanctity of marriage and the covenant that it represents. In my mind it is a bond that I would intend to maintain.

~porcelaine

_____________________________

His will; my fate.

(in reply to winterlight)

RE: Which do you consider more of a committment a colla... - 11/13/2009 4:26:49 PM

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I am VERY confused by this statement! Yep, people get divorced (though divorce rates have gone down a bit in the last few years). But I haven't known collars to be more substantial in terms of committment.
Marriage has paperwork when you want to call it to an end. Collars.. take it off and walk.
How the hell is that not easier to dump?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wantstocontrolu

Collar

Marrages today are to easy to get, too easy to dump. There is no commitment in them anymore.

< Message edited by Missokyst -- 11/13/2009 4:28:21 PM >

(in reply to Wantstocontrolu)

RE: Which do you consider more of a committment a colla... - 11/13/2009 4:43:00 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: allthatjaz

After watching a good friend die suddenly recently and his lover and live in partner kicked out onto the street with nothing, I have to say a wedding ring. In this case even a will was made and is now being contested by his family. Having a good understanding of how these things work, I doubt she will be left with any creature comforts.

Perhaps that sounds a little cold or does it? I want to know that if I die before my partner that he will have all rights to live with what we have now and he feels the same way about me.
What good would a collar be in a bereavement situation?

The law can be screwed up in that way - the one has to have a marriage license in order to have any legal leg to stand on in the event of the death of a partner. Losing the person you want to spend the rest of your life with is shattering enough emotionally and spiritually, and the fact that this person's grief will have been further compounded by suddenly finding themselves homeless and penniless with little warning, forced to start from scratch again, seems just cruel.

k.

_____________________________

Proud to be owned and cherished by Master Charles (Gauge)

i wear His collar on my heart; and wherever i am, i know He is with me.

His love and my devotion and service to Him are stronger than leather or steel.

(in reply to allthatjaz)

RE: Which do you consider more of a committment a colla... - 11/13/2009 5:02:17 PM

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I think this has to do with legal standing, not with level of commitment. I can be highly committed to someone and still have no rights under the law. I remember feeling quite this way about a child I was helping when overseas at one time. In the end, I lost him to starvation and disease because I, as a 16 year old citizen of another country, had no way to assume legal care of him. It didn't change my love and my relentless care of him, however. I think it actually amplified it because I knew all I could do was love him and do the very best I could for him while he was in my life.

lovingpet

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If you put your head into more, you'd have to put your back into less. ~Me

10 Fluffy pts.

(in reply to KateyCaine)

RE: Which do you consider more of a committment a colla... - 11/13/2009 5:13:29 PM

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I have heard of partners (two gay guys) being very committed and the minute the one died the family swooped in and took everything. I think that is wrong.
To protect oneself i think it is very important to have a marriage license. That is the state of things today.

I find that to contest a will after your son/daughter dies is an insult to their memory. Unless they were mentally incompetant i would not do so. I could not in good conscience dump the loved ones partner out into the street. To me that smacks of cold treatment and to go after the will. Well that tells me a lot about them! All they want is the money!

shakes her head..

I think both are important but for different reasons.

(in reply to lovingpet)

RE: Which do you consider more of a committment a colla... - 11/13/2009 6:54:09 PM

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I'm pretty schizo in this regard. There is the sacrament of marriage. Everything else is a business relationship with assorted degrees of legal recognition. I think it's possible for people to show a greater degree of commitment in a collaring situation than a marriage. But for me, the ultimate, the ideal, is the sacrament. I can be happy without that. But it's still the ideal.

(in reply to winterlight)

RE: Which do you consider more of a committment a colla... - 11/13/2009 7:55:52 PM

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Anyone who views the symbols of commitment as the commitment itself doesn't really understand what commitment means. Whether it's a band of gold around your finger or a strap of leather around your neck is really irrelevant. Your heart and your word and your honor is what makes the commitment, not the outward symbol.

Having said that it does appear that most people tread far more lightly into a marriage than into a collared relationship so perhaps it can be debated that marriage represents a greater commitment for most folks. It also appears that while people often ask a prospective partner if they've been married before (and how many times if more than once) it seems as though not too many in our midst that ask how many collared relationships has their prospective dominant or submissive been involved in. Maybe that question is asked more than I realize.

Not to hijack but there are many folks who keep clear of serial marrieds. I wonder if anyone of us kinky folks stay clear of the "serial collareds"?

Hard to ignore the spell check on that last word.

_____________________________

"Regret for the things we did can be tempered by time; it is regret for the things we did not do that is inconsolable." Sidney J. harris

(in reply to winterlight)

RE: Which do you consider more of a committment a colla... - 11/13/2009 8:11:38 PM

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I'm so sorry to hear that lp, it just goes to show what I've been saying for a long time. The world is different, and relationships are different, and people need to realize that.

As an office manager I see this kind of thing so many times. One case, they refused to give someone off to attend a love one's funeral because they are not considered "immediate". Where one stands on a family tree should not be an issue or even if they are a part of that tree. Just broke my heart

In today's world people have different relationships and different situations. In some cases "aunt somebody" could be closer to that person than their mother, who are they to say she's not "close" enough.

ooops...sorry

I'm off now...lol

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(in reply to lovingpet)

RE: Which do you consider more of a committment a colla... - 11/13/2009 8:13:46 PM

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A large piece of crystalised carbon set in a precious metal over a "stainless steel" collar for me, anyday, thank you very much.

_____________________________

(in reply to winterlight)

RE: Which do you consider more of a committment a colla... - 11/13/2009 8:16:55 PM

Toppingfrmbottom

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This happened with my grandpa's step daughter, she was greedy and wanted more than every one else, and thought the settlement wasn't fair and there was not really a will I don't remember but the siblings and daughter decided how to split it up, and she kept it contested and locked up in court so long, that nobody got any money out of it, because lawyer and court fee's ate the inheritance money.

quote:

ORIGINAL: winterlight

To me that smacks of cold treatment and to go after the will. Well that tells me a lot about them! All they want is the money!

shakes her head..

I think both are important but for different reasons.

(in reply to winterlight)

RE: Which do you consider more of a committment a colla... - 11/13/2009 8:50:47 PM

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They are nothing more than symbols. It highly depends on what one puts into them what they mean, or which is more valuable. Personally I don't see any need to attach value to the form of a symbol. It's still the same regardless of what it is.

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In the name of madness
Drum beats faster
Crowd shouts louder
and chaos replaces order
VnV Nation - Nemesis

(in reply to Toppingfrmbottom)

RE: Which do you consider more of a committment a colla... - 11/13/2009 9:36:54 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Viridana

Where I come from wedding bands have two purposes. First they are used as an engagement bands (theres no such things as giving a woman a huge engagement ring) where both parties have it on their right ring finger. When married the rings are moved over to the left ring finger and they become wedding bands. Some people buy two pairs, one silver for the engagement and replace it with golden upon marriage, but most use the same pair.

So for me, engagement/wedding bands have eons more significance than a collar would ever have.

Like i said in my earlier post, it all depends on what is in the heart of the people involved in the union - love, trust, caring, support, respect and honoring whatever commitment they have made to eachother should come first. It shouldn't matter WHAT someone wears on their finger or around their neck if the commitment to one another is pure and genuine.

k.

_____________________________

Proud to be owned and cherished by Master Charles (Gauge)

i wear His collar on my heart; and wherever i am, i know He is with me.

His love and my devotion and service to Him are stronger than leather or steel.

(in reply to Viridana)

RE: Which do you consider more of a committment a colla... - 11/13/2009 9:39:05 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomImus

Anyone who views the symbols of commitment as the commitment itself doesn't really understand what commitment means. Whether it's a band of gold around your finger or a strap of leather around your neck is really irrelevant. Your heart and your word and your honor is what makes the commitment, not the outward symbol.

Having said that it does appear that most people tread far more lightly into a marriage than into a collared relationship so perhaps it can be debated that marriage represents a greater commitment for most folks. It also appears that while people often ask a prospective partner if they've been married before (and how many times if more than once) it seems as though not too many in our midst that ask how many collared relationships has their prospective dominant or submissive been involved in. Maybe that question is asked more than I realize.

Not to hijack but there are many folks who keep clear of serial marrieds. I wonder if anyone of us kinky folks stay clear of the "serial collareds"?

Hard to ignore the spell check on that last word.

Yes yes yes ! :) Nicely put.

k.

_____________________________

Proud to be owned and cherished by Master Charles (Gauge)

i wear His collar on my heart; and wherever i am, i know He is with me.

His love and my devotion and service to Him are stronger than leather or steel.

(in reply to DomImus)

RE: Which do you consider more of a committment a colla... - 11/13/2009 10:05:46 PM

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It isn't the symbol of which I was speaking either, nor do I really think the OP was either. It is the relationship.

To me, the relationship with fewer strings and baiting benefits is the more significant commitment. I think the sheer fact that certain rights and priveleges are extended to marriage partners make it far more about these fringe benefits than about the commitment itself in many cases. A couple may be fully committed to each other and even have sanctified that bond on a spiritual level, but suddenly marry when someone becomes sick or there is a baby on the way. They didn't need to legalities to make the commitment strong. They accessed them when the need arose. I'm not sure that, outside the spiritual ritual and bond itself, I see marriage as so much more noble. I think it can get to be very selfish just due to the extras the individuals get to enjoy from such status.

A collar has no legal standing. There are no goodies attached beyond the agreement reached between the parties. There are no guanatees and no safety net. In that way I could potentially see a collar as a higher commitment. The only thing holding the pair together is their word and bond. Choosing to honor that every day in the face of nothing other than the happiness and well being of each other is pretty significant.

Again, I take all my commitments seriously. Neither holds a higher position with me. I do all I possibly can to live up to those vows I take. I do not expect it in return, but do not tend to become intimate with those who do not approach it in this way. I do ask if and how many times one has been married/collared/collared someone and the details of why that is no longer the case. There aren't very many acceptable answers if the number is beyond zero. Death and the other breaking their vows is about it. It had beter not be that the person I am considering broke them or ran away over some kind of foolishness. Staying power is what I offer and what I need. I don't care if that is coming from a person placing a wedding ring or a collar.

lovingpet

_____________________________

If you put your head into more, you'd have to put your back into less. ~Me

10 Fluffy pts.

(in reply to KateyCaine)

RE: Which do you consider more of a committment a colla... - 11/13/2009 10:33:57 PM

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Wedding ring, absolutely!

This is a legally, binding (hopefully!) commitment. There are no legal documents (usually) behind donning a collar, not to mention that there aren't necessarily any "vows" to go with it. Granted, this could also be the case with a wedding, though most people do recite vows, even if they're the same ol' out-of-the-book ones.

(in reply to DrkJourney)

RE: Which do you consider more of a committment a colla... - 11/14/2009 2:01:37 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: KateyCaine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Viridana

Where I come from wedding bands have two purposes. First they are used as an engagement bands (theres no such things as giving a woman a huge engagement ring) where both parties have it on their right ring finger. When married the rings are moved over to the left ring finger and they become wedding bands. Some people buy two pairs, one silver for the engagement and replace it with golden upon marriage, but most use the same pair.

So for me, engagement/wedding bands have eons more significance than a collar would ever have.

Like i said in my earlier post, it all depends on what is in the heart of the people involved in the union - love, trust, caring, support, respect and honoring whatever commitment they have made to eachother should come first. It shouldn't matter WHAT someone wears on their finger or around their neck if the commitment to one another is pure and genuine.

k.

Sorry, I disagree with you.

(in reply to KateyCaine)

RE: Which do you consider more of a committment a colla... - 11/14/2009 3:09:48 AM

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I should also mention that a collar is only a symbol of the sub's commitment, while a wedding band is worn by both parties, generally. So, it would seem that there is some satisfaction in seeing the mutual commitment.

< Message edited by kasumi -- 11/14/2009 3:10:35 AM >

(in reply to Viridana)

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