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RE: Misogyny and BDSM - 12/29/2009 8:35:44 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Loki45

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol
Il a peur de sa maman.


Non, je juste n'aime pas les chiennes françaises stupides qui pensent qu'elles sont meilleures que le pays qu'elles se sont déplacé à.



Wow Google translation garbled that up for you huh?

Honnêtement, les enfants, soyez un peu plus sage!! ;-)

- LA

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Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to Loki45)
Profile   Post #: 181
RE: Misogyny and BDSM - 12/29/2009 8:36:27 PM   
Elisabella


Posts: 3939
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aynne88


Kittin here is the link to that thread before the cries of evil mean feminists were threatening to shoot people and callling Elisabella a Nazi. The whole thing was ugly, and poor Elisabella the helpless was quite free wheeling with the ad hominems as it were. I have always advocated the worst mysogynysts are fucking women themselves. Not all, of course, *those* ones. Of course just to be clear that I am talking about you Elisabella in regards to that particular thread , so you don't have to call me a "dumbfuck" and a "wierdofuck" again for not addressing you directly. Such odd insults. Whatever. Anyway kittin, it's quite a read. Almost as entertaining as the "tap tap tap" thread except for the tragedy that some women actually believe that there is no gender inequality, and no longer a need for evil feminism. Phylis Schafly woud be so proud..


http://www.collarchat.com/m_2847809/mpage_32/key_shaktisama/tm.htm#2888210


Except I'm neither Gorean nor a man. So for Kittin to say that it was the Gorean men who were coming in and blasting people for their beliefs is simply incorrect.

The majority of people blasting each other for their beliefs were women. Feminist women and non-feminist women. There was a small percentage of men, both feminist and non-feminist, who were also criticizing the opposite side's views, but to say that thread is an example of misogyny is laughable.

(in reply to Aynne88)
Profile   Post #: 182
RE: Misogyny and BDSM - 12/29/2009 8:38:25 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika


quote:

ORIGINAL: Loki45

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol
Il a peur de sa maman.


Non, je juste n'aime pas les chiennes françaises stupides qui pensent qu'elles sont meilleures que le pays qu'elles se sont déplacé à.



Wow Google translation garbled that up for you huh?

Honnêtement, les enfants, soyez un peu plus sage!! ;-)

- LA


Oui Madame .

N'empeche que c'est un vrai con.


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Profile   Post #: 183
RE: Misogyny and BDSM - 12/29/2009 8:40:06 PM   
Elisabella


Posts: 3939
Status: offline 		PS "misogyny" is not an antonym of "feminism" regardless of what some people might think. Feminism is a specific belief system that purports that in the public sphere men and women should be treated identically and have the same social expectations. Misogyny is hatred of women.

One is about liking or disliking a gender, the other is about social and cultural perceptions of gender. One does not have to believe women are inferior to men to disagree with modern feminism.

(in reply to Elisabella)
Profile   Post #: 184
RE: Misogyny and BDSM - 12/29/2009 8:41:36 PM   
RedMagic1


Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol
Online translator failure.

Heh.  Did you see the thread where he tried to Wikipedia-calculus me to death?

Sorry, Loki45, but I just don't appreciate when people perpetuate those misandristic stereoypes that men are dumb, pigheaded, and refuse to admit when they're outclassed.  You wouldn't want to give any more ammunition to the feminists, now would you?


_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to kittinSol)
Profile   Post #: 185
RE: Misogyny and BDSM - 12/29/2009 8:42:47 PM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		Je souhaite que je pourrais comprendre meilleur la langue franglais....

E

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In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

(in reply to kittinSol)
Profile   Post #: 186
RE: Misogyny and BDSM - 12/29/2009 8:43:20 PM   
Loki45


Posts: 2100
Joined: 5/13/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika
Wow Google translation garbled that up for you huh?


Doesn't matter to me. I'm not the one that said my eyes bleed from reading that.


_____________________________

"'Till the roof comes off, 'till the lights go out
'Till my legs give out, can't shut my mouth."

(in reply to LadyAngelika)
Profile   Post #: 187
RE: Misogyny and BDSM - 12/29/2009 8:44:25 PM   
Aswad


Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aynne88

Apparently they missed the common philos memo because there is more infighting there than a Republican convention for fuck sake.


Infighting? I fail to see how debating different approaches to a reasonably shared belief can be seen as infighting. Have you seen Catholics and Protestants go at it with guns and bombs? That's infighting. We are simply challenging each other with regard to our respective views on a particular flavor of belief, which is the typical male way of doing things, so you might expect the men- at the very least- to pick that particular way of debating in a subculture that thinks those instincts (and their feminine counterparts) should be valued.

There's a fair bit of common ground, but the details vary, of course. As they should. No two humans are alike.

Health,
al-Aswad.



_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to Aynne88)
Profile   Post #: 188
RE: Misogyny and BDSM - 12/29/2009 8:45:14 PM   
Loki45


Posts: 2100
Joined: 5/13/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol
N'empeche que c'est un vrai con.


Funny, I think the same thing every time I see you post.


_____________________________

"'Till the roof comes off, 'till the lights go out
'Till my legs give out, can't shut my mouth."

(in reply to kittinSol)
Profile   Post #: 189
RE: Misogyny and BDSM - 12/29/2009 8:47:47 PM   
Loki45


Posts: 2100
Joined: 5/13/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aynne88
Oops. I just want to get the same pay as his other management team ...


While getting more time off, more coddling for failures, less layoffs, etc. Of course, I understand.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aynne88
...and not have to hear about my tits at the workplace.


Oh of course. You don't want to hear about your tits because it interferes with commenting on a guy's ass. You also don't want to see bikini calendars because they clash with your half-naked men calendars.

As I said, feminism is no longer what it started out as. Women don't want to be equal. They want their turns as oppressors. Kinda petty, if you think about it.


_____________________________

"'Till the roof comes off, 'till the lights go out
'Till my legs give out, can't shut my mouth."

(in reply to Aynne88)
Profile   Post #: 190
RE: Misogyny and BDSM - 12/29/2009 8:48:22 PM   
CaringandReal


Posts: 1397
Joined: 2/15/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol


quote:

ORIGINAL: lally2
i think citing Gor as mysogeny is a bit wrong though, sorry. its their belief system, their kink and if theyre subs and slaves are happy who are we to question their Masters.


They think there is a natural order for women to be underneath men. They also think that a woman hasn't found her own true nature until she is the servant of a man. They deplore progress and lament feminism: Gor is the ultimate in misogyny.


Well, I've been reading the Gor forums recently, and to be fair, I think this is an overly general stereotype. For a group of people that supposedly think a woman "hasn't found her own true nature until she is the servant of a man" there is an awful lot of dicussion about (and from!) the "Free Women" Goreans. Were that subculture as deeply misogynistic as your imply, there would be no place for free women, I would think, nor would they be as respected as they clearly seem to to be. I believe there is a thread over in the gor subforum about free women in which many such individuals participate. It might be eye opening to read it if you genuinely believe a Gorean woman's only "role" is as a slave.

_____________________________

"A friend who bleeds is better" --placebo

"How seldom we recognize the sound when the bolt of our fate slides home." --thomas harris

(in reply to kittinSol)
Profile   Post #: 191
RE: Misogyny and BDSM - 12/29/2009 8:48:39 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol
Online translator failure.

Heh.  Did you see the thread where he tried to Wikipedia-calculus me to death?


No, but I can only imagine too well - I actually think the guy's a masochist who gets off on trying to piss people off .

quote:

LadyE

franglais



Les chiens aboient, et la caravane passe :-) .



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(in reply to RedMagic1)
Profile   Post #: 192
RE: Misogyny and BDSM - 12/29/2009 8:52:30 PM   
Loki45


Posts: 2100
Joined: 5/13/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol
No, but I can only imagine too well - I actually think the guy's a masochist who gets off on trying to piss people off .


Even if that were true (which it isn't), that would be better than a woman who gets off on speaking in other languages trying to appear somehow better than the rest......or a married woman who hands her number out to strange men on the internet while her husband is away.

But I'm just sayin'....


_____________________________

"'Till the roof comes off, 'till the lights go out
'Till my legs give out, can't shut my mouth."

(in reply to kittinSol)
Profile   Post #: 193
RE: Misogyny and BDSM - 12/29/2009 8:53:45 PM   
Loki45


Posts: 2100
Joined: 5/13/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CaringandReal
Well, I've been reading the Gor forums recently, and to be fair, I think this is an overly general stereotype. For a group of people that supposedly think a woman "hasn't found her own true nature until she is the servant of a man" there is an awful lot of dicussion about (and from!) the "Free Women" Goreans. Were that subculture as deeply misogynistic as your imply, there would be no place for free women, I would think, nor would they be as respected as they clearly seem to to be. I believe there is a thread over in the gor subforum about free women in which many such individuals participate. It might be eye opening to read it if you genuinely believe a Gorean woman's only "role" is as a slave.


I think you're wasting your time. She's not going to open her eyes.

_____________________________

"'Till the roof comes off, 'till the lights go out
'Till my legs give out, can't shut my mouth."

(in reply to CaringandReal)
Profile   Post #: 194
RE: Misogyny and BDSM - 12/29/2009 8:54:27 PM   
CaringandReal


Posts: 1397
Joined: 2/15/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol


quote:

ORIGINAL: CaringandReal


I don't know about the badge part. In other generic kink forums people with misogynistic leanings come and go. They are usually not well accepted by mainstream bdsm groups. I don't think what you're observing is particular to collarme. Remember, a couple vocal people on any topic can make it look like there's a lot going on, when it's really just a couple vocal people. But the fact that some men with misgynistic leanings are attracted to bdsm relationships and to submissive women is not new at all. For some it's an outlet for anger or tensions. Others are drawn to the submissive personality, which, even when she's relatively aggressive or "strong" is quite different in expression from the modern free woman's personality. Or both. The trouble with misogyny is that even if you hate the other gender, if you're straight, you're still sexually drawn to them, and you've got to come to some sort of compromise. The compromises can take many forms, of course. What you're seeing in this forum at the moment is a pretty mild and toned down expression of misogyny. There are places online, clubs sort of, where it's a lot more strongly expressed. If it makes you uncomfortable, well, be glad this is a moderated forum! :)



That was spot on, actually.


Thanks. :)

Please don't take offence about what I said next about Gor. It's just what I have observed recently. I had similar beliefs (that a woman's only role in that cultue was as a slave) and was surprised to discover how prominent "free women" actually are in that subculture.

_____________________________

"A friend who bleeds is better" --placebo

"How seldom we recognize the sound when the bolt of our fate slides home." --thomas harris

(in reply to kittinSol)
Profile   Post #: 195
RE: Misogyny and BDSM - 12/29/2009 8:54:53 PM   
AnimusRex


Posts: 2165
Joined: 5/13/2006
Status: offline 		FR to nobody in particular-

You know, the nice thing about feminism, is that the word means pretty much anything one wishes it to mean.
For instance, it is wielded by Sarah Palin, Jenna Jameson, Kate Millet, and Phyllis Schlafly with equal ardor and stridency. Each of them has a different meaning, and definition of it.

The only possible common denominator is that women have wonderful unique qualities, and are deserving of respect.

I say all this, only to show that ginning up a big "I hate teh feminazis" rant is as foolish as it is impotent. Yes, some feminist scholars are cranky men haters. Just imagine them locked in a room with Rush Limbaugh, and go about your day.

I have written a few posts discussing my quarrels with classic First Wave feminism, but it hardly makes a ripple. Locking yourself in a battle with a phantom army of bra burning women's libbers just makes one sound angry and fearful. Pointing out a specific target is a bit more productive.

(in reply to kittinSol)
Profile   Post #: 196
RE: Misogyny and BDSM - 12/29/2009 8:59:47 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Loki45



I rest my case: you're a troll of the highest order - my husband's absolutely fine with my talking to people from online, by the way (not that it's any of your business). Unlike you, I have nothing, but NOTHING, to hide :-) .



_____________________________



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Profile   Post #: 197
RE: Misogyny and BDSM - 12/29/2009 9:01:07 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		There are even Female slaveholders in Gor....not as common but they exist. And you might be surprised at who they are.

Kajira: female slave
Kajirus: male slave

Just as in this Male dominated society, strong Females shine thru, so it is in that little slice of the cosmos.

And misogyny has absolutely nothing to do with real Goreans.

Goreans love them some women.

Dirty little secret? (eat this post after you read it because the Goreans are going to kill me) but there are HOMOSEXUALS in Gor. Fuckin A!!!!! Go ask!!!!

BTW search for dcnovice in gorean forums, that was a fucking hoot, everybody loves him, I don't know why he doesnt go back there, in fact thats gonna go in the best threads ever if I can find it.

Ron


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Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to CaringandReal)
Profile   Post #: 198
RE: Misogyny and BDSM - 12/29/2009 9:02:15 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CaringandReal


quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol


quote:

ORIGINAL: CaringandReal


I don't know about the badge part. In other generic kink forums people with misogynistic leanings come and go. They are usually not well accepted by mainstream bdsm groups. I don't think what you're observing is particular to collarme. Remember, a couple vocal people on any topic can make it look like there's a lot going on, when it's really just a couple vocal people. But the fact that some men with misgynistic leanings are attracted to bdsm relationships and to submissive women is not new at all. For some it's an outlet for anger or tensions. Others are drawn to the submissive personality, which, even when she's relatively aggressive or "strong" is quite different in expression from the modern free woman's personality. Or both. The trouble with misogyny is that even if you hate the other gender, if you're straight, you're still sexually drawn to them, and you've got to come to some sort of compromise. The compromises can take many forms, of course. What you're seeing in this forum at the moment is a pretty mild and toned down expression of misogyny. There are places online, clubs sort of, where it's a lot more strongly expressed. If it makes you uncomfortable, well, be glad this is a moderated forum! :)



That was spot on, actually.


Thanks. :)

Please don't take offence about what I said next about Gor. It's just what I have observed recently. I had similar beliefs (that a woman's only role in that cultue was as a slave) and was surprised to discover how prominent "free women" actually are in that subculture.


Hey :-) . I think that "Free Women" are still not seen as men's equal, but I could be wrong - it's true that most of what I know of Gor stems from what I have read on the boards of this very website.

I still find the whole thing ridiculously misogynistic; but thank you for being civilised about it :-) .

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Profile   Post #: 199
RE: Misogyny and BDSM - 12/29/2009 9:03:58 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Dirty little secret? (eat this post after you read it because the Goreans are going to kill me) but there are HOMOSEXUALS in Gor. Fuckin A!!!!! Go ask!!!!



They obviously don't have enough hair salons over there - from the Gor novels covers, it looks as though the people seem to suffer from serious hirsutism.

Time to get snippin', boys!

_____________________________



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Profile   Post #: 200
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