quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha


This has been a great thread.  But what of the other issue of "over-fetishization" -- specifically, beyond the issue of appearance and dress, what about the ideals of how a femdom should act/behave and what she should - and MOST importantly, what *motivates* her.  I think all of these ideals are created by male-developed porn and reinforced through fantasy - and the issue is that while some of the "acts" may overlap, most dominant women don't do what they do for the same reasons sub men wish/want/dream they do.

Many subs don't know/don't ask/don't care why a woman is dominant, so long as she's dominating him. But what does she *get out of* dominance - and the acts themselves (the kinky and not so kinky ones).  This is most evidenced by men that submit instantly, rather than appreciate that a woman who likes to take power must have power to take away - she doesn't want a groveling worm.

I am a fairly fetishy, sadistic woman - yet, I don't ever fantasize or eroticize an instant-meek-worthless-worm - yet, so many sub men think this is what we want, that somehow we think a stranger behaving in this manner toward us will entice our dominant side.  This is because femdom porn doesn't feature courting, seduction, and the mental/emotional side of dominance that so many of us crave/desire/want.

How many dominant women have had to tell a man, "Don't behave like that. It's a turn off," only to find that core to his submission is the idea that we WANT him to act like that. Yikes!!

Akasha

quote:

ORIGINAL: DommeMae

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

Damn... that must be what I do wrong! I find my power in my mind, heart and not the pussy... it's just a fun part I wouldn't want ignored in the right setting. lol If I have to count on the pussy... naw... no thanks.

Power can come from anywhere.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

LOL... sure Peon! I wouldn't mind a bit. But don't count on me being greedy... I plan to share!

(I know, you wanted to break a dominant and make me beg eh?)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DommeMae

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

Damn... that must be what I do wrong! I find my power in my mind, heart and not the pussy... it's just a fun part I wouldn't want ignored in the right setting. lol If I have to count on the pussy... naw... no thanks.

Power can come from anywhere.

quote:

ORIGINAL: hardbodysub

It appears that we have the same likes and dislikes in this regard, but my personal experience has been quite the opposite of your description. What I have encountered is dommes expecting instant submission, which I find unnatural and artificial. I think that blaming it all on male-developed porn and male fantasies is a bit off target. A lot of this "instant submission" BS comes from people being mentored in the D/s lifestyle by others who have also been taught that this is the way it's supposed to work. The blind leading the blind.

quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

Akasha, correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't you start a thread a while ago in which you suggested that submales could act a bit more subby right from the get-go?  On the basis that both Domme and sub knew why they were meeting - so why not?  I've only hazy memories of the thread in question, mind you.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

Lady A, I think we submissive men are from Mars and You are from Venus when it comes to the image depicted in your avatar. Given a choice of romantic vs erotic, without any context or studying your profile or reading this thread, I think the majority of submissive men would vote the latter. Just mho. I would vote that and i am far beyond the comic book stage I assure you. That image is HOT! *grins*

I have to disagree with you here. I think that avatar is quite erotic, yes; but more than that, I think it's deeply and profoundly romantic. I've had the advantage of seeing a larger and more detailed rendition of the image, and I can say there's a great deal more going on in that picture than someone may notice in the small avatar. I see a complex assortment of emotional expressions and interactions  between the two principal characters, on several levels. The calm, gentle, delicate composure of the woman, the tender and caring way she cups his face in her hand, contrasted with the firm and implacable resolve in her facial expression and her body language... counterbalanced by the tension in his body, the rigid hands, the fear in his face as he resigns himself and prepares himself for the pain that he's about to endure; while at the same time the trust and devotion in his facial expression, the desire to please her, the inner peace he's finding as he surrenders to her will, and the strength he draws from her hand as he surrenders himself to her.

Is it physically arousing? Sure, especially as an initial reaction. But if you take a moment to look at it, and let yourself feel the layers below the surface, that picture tells a tender and beautiful story about two people and the love, trust, and devotion they share and that binds them to one another. You just have to look beyond the initial reaction, and open yourself to seeing the subtle, more nuanced elements of it's personality. You could almost say, then, that the image is a very good metaphor for this thread itself....

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

I've felt, right throughout this thread, that I've had nothing useful to add to it, LadyA.  This is because I came at D/s from what, now, seems to have been an unusual angle.  Before I came to CM, I never really believed that femdoms existed.  I thought all representations of D/s were the results of male fantasies - involving women who were only ever catering solely to male fantasies.  No exceptions.  So I never found D/s porn plausible; consequently, it never turned me on.  Stereotypical femdom attire never did much for me, either, for the same reason. 

In all, I feel pretty confident that my own experience can't yield any insight that would be of benefit to femdoms who feel overly-fetishised. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

I won't speak for Akasha but I think I know what she meant. I think she meant if they could be more respectful, gentlemanly like, court, defer even on a small level, which is a far cry from liking the underside of her shoe and whimpering as a way of saying hello!
 
OK, LadyA.  *Chuckle*  I think I can just about grasp the distinction you're making there.  'Cut the poodle-noises in restaurants on first dates' - got it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

Lady A, I think we submissive men are from Mars and You are from Venus when it comes to the image depicted in your avatar. Given a choice of romantic vs erotic, without any context or studying your profile or reading this thread, I think the majority of submissive men would vote the latter. Just mho. I would vote that and i am far beyond the comic book stage I assure you. That image is HOT! *grins*

I have to disagree with you here. I think that avatar is quite erotic, yes; but more than that, I think it's deeply and profoundly romantic. I've had the advantage of seeing a larger and more detailed rendition of the image, and I can say there's a great deal more going on in that picture than someone may notice in the small avatar. I see a complex assortment of emotional expressions and interactions  between the two principal characters, on several levels. The calm, gentle, delicate composure of the woman, the tender and caring way she cups his face in her hand, contrasted with the firm and implacable resolve in her facial expression and her body language... counterbalanced by the tension in his body, the rigid hands, the fear in his face as he resigns himself and prepares himself for the pain that he's about to endure; while at the same time the trust and devotion in his facial expression, the desire to please her, the inner peace he's finding as he surrenders to her will, and the strength he draws from her hand as he surrenders himself to her.

Is it physically arousing? Sure, especially as an initial reaction. But if you take a moment to look at it, and let yourself feel the layers below the surface, that picture tells a tender and beautiful story about two people and the love, trust, and devotion they share and that binds them to one another. You just have to look beyond the initial reaction, and open yourself to seeing the subtle, more nuanced elements of it's personality. You could almost say, then, that the image is a very good metaphor for this thread itself....

I always welcome your point of view, Panda. I would reply by saying the erotic impact of a graphic is more immediate and dramatic than the romantic side of it. My sensory input system and libido react instantaneously, I am such a whorey old man. LOL Images slap me in the face and they are what they are. If they are erotic my libido decides quickly (though my equipment may be a little slow to react) and tells me that's hot. In the long run your interpretation may be more nuanced and your story more accurate than mine but upon first glance at gut level my lascivious mind will make the choice for eroticism and be quite content with my less nuanced story. Not to beat a dead horse, partner, but I reckon eroticism is in the eye of the beholder. Consequently, many a submissives will not give the attention to detail that you suggest especially because thankfully there are so many other images competing for our libidinous attention. We are unlikely to sit down and study the composition. Nor are we necessarily likely to interpret the graphic romantically the way the Domme intended. Men do not read romance novels for the most part.

"What we have here is a failure to communicate." ~ Cool Hand Luke

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

Then again Panda, I don't see why a graphic cannot be both erotic and romantic at the same time. The two ideas are not mutually exclusive. Much depends upon who is making the decision and under what circumstances the decision is made.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

Then again Panda, I don't see why a graphic cannot be both erotic and romantic at the same time. The two ideas are not mutually exclusive. Much depends upon who is making the decision and under what circumstances the decision is made.

And I think it's also worth pointing out that the reason i paid enough attention to the image to see all those other elements was because, the first time I saw it, I thought it looked pretty damned hot. It grabbed me in the exact same place it apparently grabbed you - and held my attention long enough that, as I looked more closely at it, I saw much more than i noticed at first glance.

quote:

So I think a case could be made that not only are eroticism and romanticism not mutually exclusive, they probably exist in a symbiotic relationship far more often than many of us may consciously realize.

quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

Many subs don't know/don't ask/don't care why a woman is dominant, so long as she's dominating him. But what does she *get out of* dominance - and the acts themselves (the kinky and not so kinky ones). 

quote:

Me three! And I think in re-reading I might have written that the image was not erotic but romantic. That's not quite it. What it is for me is an erotic image loaded with romance or then again a romantic image loaded with erotica. For the record though, I never saw the erection in the man's pants until it was pointed out earlier. Honest! And I usually notice these things ;-)