RE: The Over-Fetishization of the Dominant Woman

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RE: The Over-Fetishization of the Dominant Woman - 1/3/2010 5:37:35 AM

CallaFirestormBW

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quote:

To the Dommes, how do you deal with this? Does this ever discourage you? What do you do get out of that headspace? Is there anything that can be done to get a man who you think is worth the time and effort out of this headspace?

I haven't been posting on the boards much these days, but I saw this header and wanted to take a moment to speak on this.

One thing that has helped me immeasurably, as I am a dominant woman by nature, but have limited fetishes that embrace only the most minuscule portion of my existence, has been to move outside the fetish/BDSM/Ds/Ms community. This is possible, for me, because my focus is now, and has always been, about creating a -household-, and my interests range more through Victorian/Steampunk household than BDSM activities. Once I moved more into the 're-enactment' communities and out of the BDSM realm, it became much easier to find individuals who were suited as household servants and where, occasionally, we would all be rewarded with an afternoon of abandoned fetishist activities, than a fetish-oriented relationship where the fetish was the primary focus. I've found that this gives me a great deal of latitude in running my household, enhances my role as the matriarch and controlling quotient, allows for both myself and my companion, SR, to manage our co-household without rancor, allows for -servants- who have skills in addition to the ability to wear rubber and take a beating (though those are not un-represented), and emphasizes caste within our household without requiring stiletto heels and a whip constantly at one's belt. It has also gone a long way towards reducing the number of individuals who come to us to be -intentionally- disobedient so that we will "punish" them.

(BTW, I believe that this also summarizes the attitudes among the Gorean camp, when they say that they "do not practice and are not a part of the BDSM community".)

Calla

< Message edited by CallaFirestormBW -- 1/3/2010 5:43:16 AM >

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Said to me recently: "Look, I know you're the "voice of reason"... but dammit, I LIKE being unreasonable!!!!"

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(in reply to LadyAngelika)

RE: The Over-Fetishization of the Dominant Woman - 1/3/2010 7:25:11 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

ORIGINAL: DommeMae

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

Damn... that must be what I do wrong! I find my power in my mind, heart and not the pussy... it's just a fun part I wouldn't want ignored in the right setting. lol If I have to count on the pussy... naw... no thanks.

Power can come from anywhere.

I suspect more often than not it begins with the genitals and spreads upwards.

For sure! Sex starts in the brain, now doesn't it!

(in reply to vincentML)

RE: The Over-Fetishization of the Dominant Woman - 1/3/2010 8:46:25 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DommeMae
For sure! Sex starts in the brain, now doesn't it!

And the immature under developed brain will be all about fulfilling it's base immediate needs and the more mature brain will look at more holistic, evolved vision of pleasure, that is pleasure on many dimensions, not just between the legs.

While I absolutely love this thread to date, I found there was too much emphasis put on "well if dommes took the sex out of their images", treating us like succubus. Lockit gets adamant (isn't she radiant!), I get my avatar picked on (but so many come to its defence, Elan, Panda, Politesub) and really what we've managed to conclude so far is that when a man becomes more mature and is willing to accept a life in a female-led relationship, he'll start addressing it like an normal man and look past the surface for an intelligent complete woman.

It's apparently all about maturity. He starts seeing other things in complex images, not just erotica, but romance, etc.

Which then begs the question, if we have a bigger variety of images of Dominant women, complete women with personalities, hopes, dreams, love to give, flaws (damn, sorry, I had to say it Ladies), some like the women you see in this thread, will this help men mature into this faster? What else can be done? I mean from my experience, most men are truly only able to do this after the age of 40, though there have been some exceptions. Elan highlights that the highly charged sexual nature of the lifestyle is a huge factor, which doesn't help neither. That's not going to go away because, though not all bdsm is sexual, much of it is.

Just remember, the OP doesn't want to complain about wankers. It wants to better understand the true submissives stuck in wanker land and how to get them to mature faster. It asks for potential solutions.

Now that we are on page 13, I'm not sure if we'll get to the solution part. Some have mentioned ways that they deal with it and thanks for that. I find I cope pretty damn well myself! But this isn't about me finding a partner. This is about addressing a bigger issue.

What I find interesting is Calla reiterated again what Akasha said earlier in the thread: go outside the BDSM community. That I find truly a shame to be honest. I know there are great men here who've gotten over the hump (or maybe like Peon, they never had one to get over) and equally great men who need to make the transition from little wanker to amazingly strong sub.

- LA

< Message edited by LadyAngelika -- 1/3/2010 8:54:37 AM >

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RE: The Over-Fetishization of the Dominant Woman - 1/3/2010 8:49:28 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DommeMae

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

ORIGINAL: DommeMae

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

Damn... that must be what I do wrong! I find my power in my mind, heart and not the pussy... it's just a fun part I wouldn't want ignored in the right setting. lol If I have to count on the pussy... naw... no thanks.

Power can come from anywhere.

I suspect more often than not it begins with the genitals and spreads upwards.

For sure! Sex starts in the brain, now doesn't it!

Giving the matter some careful re-examination (as if it ever leaves my consciousness) you are probably right, DommeMae. Often through casual fantasy when the neuros collude to create some stir (idle minds doing the Devil's work)

Frequently sparked, however, by some sensory stimulus from the environment that creates a curiosity in the mind and a twitch in the genitalia (such as your alluring avatar, DommeMae)

**vincentML quickly shakes his head vigorously to clear it of all lascivious and distracting thoughts before Mistress Lucy reaches for Her cane !!

_____________________________

vML

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

(in reply to DommeMae)

RE: The Over-Fetishization of the Dominant Woman - 1/3/2010 9:13:03 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

**vincentML quickly shakes his head vigorously to clear it of all lascivious and distracting thoughts before Mistress Lucy reaches for Her cane !!

So here's a thought... could it be that for so often, the punishment for wanker behaviour is something that they actually like, we are reinforcing the wanker behaviour?

Let me tell you, I've not had to *punish* any man that was with me for looking at another woman (though I have left one who cheated). I don't fool myself in thinking that they never looked, they are human afterall. But out of respect for me, they never, ever let it show. Not any man that I've been in a committed relationship with, either D/s based or the more vanilla variety.

I find that "you'll get a spanking because you've been a bad boy" make for hot play, but if I really have to do it, it's an indication that the man I'm with might not be mature enough for me, or something else deep down is going on that is unresolved. I can work through this perhaps once, but not twice.

- LA

< Message edited by LadyAngelika -- 1/3/2010 9:48:53 AM >

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RE: The Over-Fetishization of the Dominant Woman - 1/3/2010 10:40:56 AM

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That's exactly what I say

"Men over 40 are less preoccupied with sex and more able to enjoy all the other pleasures of a relationship." There sure are plenty of younger men like this too, but just not as much. Nevertheless, I think a lot of what motivates us here and in the rest of the world is related to sex. I'm not talking just about penetrative, or shall I say: "engulfing" sex either.

If you're interested in an intelligent, well-rounded man whose a little too overly preoccupied with sex, is it possible that he can experience joy in other areas of the relationship in equal measure? Yes. But the question is: does he want to? If not, shrugs, then no problem, use his preoccupation to your advantage and have fun with it. When you're bored or you're certain he's not going to move beyond the sexual aspect, or when someone attractive and more cerebral comes along, bid him a farewell and move on to the next. That's just one solution. I firmly believe most of these "wanker" over-sexed, men, if they also have a good head on their shoulders, and an appreciation for life, things and people, can definitely see past the sex or sexual play, *if* they want and *when* they're ready.

(in reply to LadyAngelika)

RE: The Over-Fetishization of the Dominant Woman - 1/3/2010 10:47:50 AM

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"(idle minds doing the Devil's work)"

::shakes her ass and says Follow it::

Still Idle?

j/k, harmless fun here....

(in reply to vincentML)

RE: The Over-Fetishization of the Dominant Woman - 1/3/2010 11:02:58 AM

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I find a chastity device works quite well to focus their minds elsewhere.

But that's just me ;^)

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She dealt her pretty words like Blades -
How glittering they shone -
And every One unbared a Nerve
Or wantoned with a Bone -

I want a sensitive man - one who'll cry when I hit him.

(in reply to LadyAngelika)

RE: The Over-Fetishization of the Dominant Woman - 1/3/2010 11:46:15 AM

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I don't get why I would want an intelligent, well rounded man who was a little overly preoccupied with sex... to play with him... actually giving him what he wants for a time and then toss him aside when someone better comes along.

First of all... I can't see a man as well rounded if he is a little overly (oximoronic) preoccupied with sex. Secondly... why play head games with a man that I clearly will not tolerate well, use him and toss him aside like a piece of meat? Wouldn't that be just as bad as him treating me like a piece of meat?

I will save my time and self... for the good guys and will not even reward a meat seeker for even a moment after I know he is a meat seeker. I have better use for my pussy too!

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RE: The Over-Fetishization of the Dominant Woman - 1/3/2010 12:08:16 PM

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not quite sure if you were actually replying to me in particular but if so...

I was joking...thus the little smiley/winky face at the end of my post.

_____________________________

Ms Jo

She dealt her pretty words like Blades -
How glittering they shone -
And every One unbared a Nerve
Or wantoned with a Bone -

I want a sensitive man - one who'll cry when I hit him.

(in reply to Lockit)

RE: The Over-Fetishization of the Dominant Woman - 1/3/2010 12:12:04 PM

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quote:

I firmly believe most of these "wanker" over-sexed, men, if they also have a good head on their shoulders, and an appreciation for life, things and people, can definitely see past the sex or sexual play, *if* they want and *when* they're ready.

For my part, I was having a bit of self-deprecating fun when I responded to your last post and referred to your avatar.

Quite honestly, I am not sure how exactly Lady A defines "wanker behaviour," although I come away with the impression such behavior may be the mere activity of looking at another woman. I have never heard it so referred. It may happen that some couples may mutually enjoy the sexual appearance of another woman passing by and exchange comments about their appraisal, the wife or Mistress in no way threatened by the male's visual attention elsewhere.

I have always thought of a wanker as a lonely, solitary fellow who physically masturbates upon the slightest provocation. Are we now expanding the definition to include men in a committed relationship who might be distracted by a passing lovely? That reminds me of our President Jimmy Carter who confessed to having sinned in his heart for having impure thoughts or coveting a woman beyond his SO. I find that sort of thinking rather straight-jacketed and puritanical and not at all keeping with the age we live in. Each couple defines their own relationship. Some will go so far as to decide upon open marriage. While others favor poly. There are no over-reaching laws of sexual behavior or looking behavior unless you wish to rely literally upon the text of the Bible.

To Lady A: You say, "could it be that for so often, the punishment for wanker behaviour is something that they actually like, we are reinforcing the wanker behaviour?" I have never heard of that kink. I shall look it up in my DSM of bdsm behavior

to see if it is listed. You further say that you have never had to punish any man for such a behavior. If that is the case, I wonder what is your source for proposing that some men might actually wished to be punished for looking about. Seems like a literary contrivance to me. You take some male behavior, introduce it as a fetish, and then have a good go at the male population, similar to what you did with this statement at the beginning of what was otherwise an interesting thread:

"Let's, for one moment, suppose that not all the men that over-fetishize dominant women are wankers or trolls." Just for that one moment? And after that, what? Are we then to go back and assume they are otherwise wankers and trolls?

You define men as wankers and trolls in one case and as wankers who are seeking punishment in this second case and you do it all without any real basis. Seems like literary contrivance to me.

And to DommeMae: you seem to have a quite satisfactory solution for dealing with over-sexed and otherwise well rounded men. You have stated the variety of options and know what your choices are. Every couple defines their own relationship as you obviously know. There is an endless realm of possibilities. If the relationship goes sour it is not always that a flaw is to be found in the male.

Perhaps Mistresses might do well to ask themselves what are my expectations in a relationship and are they realistic or have I set the bar too high, given the nature of human fraility, and possibly have I set the bar too high because I lack the courage to pursue a more realistic relationship. The divorce rate in the States is at 50% for a variety of reasons. It should be no surprise that both genders are a bit wary when crossing the threshhold into a potential relationship. But both genders have a responsibility for the success of relationship. Concluding that men are wankers and trolls for the most part leaves you ladies in a frightful position and shifts the blame to one side.

_____________________________

vML

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

(in reply to DommeMae)

RE: The Over-Fetishization of the Dominant Woman - 1/3/2010 12:12:07 PM

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I'm sorry Ms Jo... no... I wasn't replying to you. I simply don't post right and even when I try to remind myself... I still don't remember.

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RE: The Over-Fetishization of the Dominant Woman - 1/3/2010 12:17:30 PM

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Right, but you actually get what you want through what he thinks he's getting. Why can't you have fun with it too? If you're attracted to him, why not?

I believe well-rounded and balanced men can be crazy horny.

(in reply to Lockit)

RE: The Over-Fetishization of the Dominant Woman - 1/3/2010 3:07:12 PM

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quote:

You further say that you have never had to punish any man for such a behavior. If that is the case, I wonder what is your source for proposing that some men might actually wished to be punished for looking about.

That they date a woman other than me ;-)

- LA

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(in reply to vincentML)

RE: The Over-Fetishization of the Dominant Woman - 1/3/2010 3:32:13 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DommeMae

Right, but you actually get what you want through what he thinks he's getting. Why can't you have fun with it too? If you're attracted to him, why not?

I believe well-rounded and balanced men can be crazy horny.

No disrespect to either of you but apparently Lockit's wants and yours are quite different.

Sounds like a win-win if both you and he get what you want from what he thinks he's getting, even if you have some other future agenda that excludes him. Nobody promises anybody a rose garden that will forever bloom, though some believe in that fairy tale.

_____________________________

vML

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

(in reply to DommeMae)

RE: The Over-Fetishization of the Dominant Woman - 1/3/2010 3:38:18 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

quote:

You further say that you have never had to punish any man for such a behavior. If that is the case, I wonder what is your source for proposing that some men might actually wished to be punished for looking about.

That they date a woman other than me ;-)

- LA

One of your friends attracts a string of wankers who wish to be punished? Really, Lady A?
I wonder how she keeps blundering into these sods? She might wish to check to see if her Garmen is functioning properly. ~smiles~

_____________________________

vML

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

(in reply to LadyAngelika)

RE: The Over-Fetishization of the Dominant Woman - 1/3/2010 3:48:45 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

quote:

You further say that you have never had to punish any man for such a behavior. If that is the case, I wonder what is your source for proposing that some men might actually wished to be punished for looking about.

That they date a woman other than me ;-)

- LA

One of your friends attracts a string of wankers who wish to be punished? Really, Lady A?
I wonder how she keeps blundering into these sods? She might wish to check to see if her Garmen is functioning properly. ~smiles~

No, no ;-) You misinterpreted my retort.

When I say "they date a woman other than me", it was meant as "I won't date that kind of man so he'll have to find another woman to date".

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to vincentML)

RE: The Over-Fetishization of the Dominant Woman - 1/3/2010 3:49:54 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DommeMaeI'm not talking just about penetrative, or shall I say: "engulfing" sex either.

'Engulfing' just makes me think of being overwhelmed by an oilslick or a school of jellyfish. I think the word you want is 'swithing'. I was told once that this was the only term ever invented in the English language whose exclusive meaning is the act of a vagina enveloping a penis.

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RE: The Over-Fetishization of the Dominant Woman - 1/3/2010 4:02:41 PM

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LOL Omg... I had to quickly put my coffee down on that one! Now I have to stop laughing before it goes cold on me!

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RE: The Over-Fetishization of the Dominant Woman - 1/3/2010 7:52:28 PM

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FR-

I admit that I have only skimmed the entire thread, but honestly, I don't see this as a one sided issue. By one sided, it being that only female dominants have been over-fetishized. For many of the "do-me doms" (credit to wisdomtogive I believe for that term), they have a similar type of image of the female sub or slave. Always naked, always poised to suck a cock, crawl around on her knees serving his every whim. I know that most of the dominant women here don't stick strictly to the "mistress" board. How many times have you read about how the "master" wants his slave naked at all times wearing nothing but a collar and 5 inch stilleto heels? Is it any different at its core than the image you present of the female dominant?

The fact of the matter is that it isn't over-fetishization it is over-sexualization that is in play. Young women believing that they can guide men with their pussies will perpetuate that fantasy. It is like the age old story many of our mothers told us about how a guy will always flirt and sleep with the "easy" girl, but they aren't going to bring her home to meet the folks. The media promotes the idea of the amazonian, waifish female as the end all of "sexy." It wasn't always that way either. As many of you know, Marilyn Monroe (still considered by many the epitome of sexy) was a size 12-14. Even though that is still the average size of the majority of american women, the media keeps telling women that they should be a size 0. A model is considered "plus size" if she wears a size ten, but that size ten model can't buy clothes in the plus size department. A little fucked up, don't you think?

But the question is really is the media all wrong? Who is going to buy a picture of a domiant woman who is wearing sweats and sneakers looking sternly at her boy doing the dishes? Is that really what people are going to consider sexy? Even guys aren't going to buy porn that is all about men with tiny penises no matter who they are screwing with their needle dicks. We live in a visual society. Neither of those "visuals" are going to be widely arousing. But the guys with the huge cocks and the dominants in leather corsets with thigh high shiny boots holding the whip over her boy while he licks her shoes? That's the visual that people want to buy. It isn't any different that the vanilla visuals that we are presented with. Most women are going to prefer seeing the guy with the six pack and most men want the thin shapely woman in a thong with big firm breasts. It's all sexualization of various themes. The fetish only comes into play here because, technically, BDSM IS a fetish.

Most adults realize that the leather, whips, cuffs, leashes and paddles aren't going to be the case 24/7. Life will get in the way with jobs, children and family emergencies. But we are all here looking for the "fantasy." Some people's fantasies may be more grounded in reality, i.e. finding someone with whom they share enough in common to build a life with. Others think that they are behaving in the way that the dominant females want them to. Why? Pro dommes probably play a part. Even if there is no sex involved with a pro domme, the time a sub male will spend with them is all about the kink? Why? Because he is paying her to do just that, help him live out his kinky desires. Is it really no wonder that should that guy start looking for someone to live that with in a relationship on a day to day basis that his only reference point was exactly the image you are against?

The real issue is whether or not there is a need to constantly worry about such things as whether or not something is "over-fetishized" or if it even qualifies as a "fetish."

(in reply to Lockit)

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