quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady
I admit that I have only skimmed the entire thread, but honestly, I don't see this as a one sided issue.

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The real issue is whether or not there is a need to constantly worry about such things as whether or not something is "over-fetishized" or if it even qualifies as a "fetish."

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ORIGINAL: ElanSubdued

LA,

--- However, over 260 posts and over 4000 views
--- in 4 days kind of has me thinking it's an issue that
--- others find this issue as concerning as I do.

Actually, I'm just here for the shoes.  Many lovely feet and pairs on display.

Elan.

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ORIGINAL: ElanSubdued

It's on topic!  Truly!  I was still editing while you were replying.  See the "light bulb" notion above.  Perhaps a solution for the OP?

*flutters eyes ever so innocently* :-)

Elan.

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Therefore what I am saying is: people over-fetishize because it makes economic sense (it is quicker to write a fetishistic than a non-fetishistic introductory email)- moreover in response to many profiles, it is the only sensible topic for dialog since all the other requirements are couched in such cliched terms that meaningful exchange about them is nigh on impossible.

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ORIGINAL: spankyslut

I think a common form of RL over-fetishism of the Domme is when the submissive essentially uses Her to get their fantasies fulfilled and doesn't seem to care otherwise how they treat the person on the other end of the whip. This person is very likely to pick up a new Domme before they are done using the current one, once the need for emotional reciprocation becomes overwhelming to them. This self-serving type of behavior isn't likely to promote a stable, healthy relationship, before a great deal of personal growth is achieved and the submissive thinks in a capacity beyond meeting their own needs. 

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ORIGINAL: stiv2009

Finally, there does seem to be a large amount of boiler-plating in a lot of the Domme profiles on here. The kind of stuff I am thinking about is "My ideal submissive is proud of his desire to serve his Lady. He is alpha in his professional life but behind closed doors he defers to his mistress...Do you have those desires you have yearned for your whole life which only service to your Goddess can sate? ....Do you crave submission to a beautiful dominant woman?....I seek a service oriented sub....Your only interest is to serve your mistress...You are a refined gentleman as equally at home in the vanilla world as in.....You are the kind of guy who gets out of the bath to have a piss" etc etc (I was joking on the last requirement). However, this kind of stuff is depressingly common. And if you are a submissive guy, what can you possibly write in response to such bland and generic requirements? Not much. But then she starts talking about fetishes - and guess what - suddenly there is some specificity: whips and chains and shit. Since a basic precondition for dialog is specificity - it is not surprising what kinds of responses come forth.

Therefore what I am saying is: people over-fetishize because it makes economic sense (it is quicker to write a fetishistic than a non-fetishistic introductory email)- moreover in response to many profiles, it is the only sensible topic for dialog since all the other requirements are couched in such cliched terms that meaningful exchange about them is nigh on impossible.

Steve

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ORIGINAL: LadyPact

I wanted to be fair about this, so I went back and looked at My own profile to see what information was and wasn't contained in it.  I have what I consider to be a 50/50 profile.  What I mean by that is that fifty percent of it is positive and fifty percent of it is negative.  The fifty percent that is negative relates to those things that are put in there so as to automatically tell people that they do not suit My needs.  Examples of this are the statements that I make regarding people in other locations, that I am not interested in CDs/TV/s/TGs, etc.

I do have to pause here though, and say that I do agree with aidan.  No, I don't put every unacceptable situation on My profile.  In My experience, there are certain hard limits that an overwhelming majority of people have.  I accept them to be a given.  The same holds true for moral and ethical standards.  You could go out on the street today and ask 100 people if they welcome or accept dishonest people in their lives.  You're not going to find many that will happily say yes.  That, I also think should be a given.

Back to the subject.  So, I opened My own profile and while automatically excluding the questions that could be related to the 50% that is negative (because that's never a good place to start) went for the questions that are related to the 50% that is positive.  Some of these are questions that I have received, and been more than happy to answer.

1.  Can you tell me about events happening near you?

2.  What kind of classes have you presented on?

3.  What are your requirements to consider someone to be a casual play partner?

4.  What type of poly do you consider yourself?

5.  Why are neither your husband or your sub living with you at this time?

6.  Exactly what is a Master's Cap?

7.  Where were your pictures taken?

8.  How often do you get to the places you mention traveling to?

9.  What public clubs are the places that you usually play?

10. I'd like to ask a question regarding something you've written on the forums.


Now, take that list and compare it to My profile.  All of the above questions make perfect sense and even open the door to the possibility of some opportunities.

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ORIGINAL: spankyslut

LA am I slow or what? Maybe it puts emphasis a very important point, perhaps even the most important points.

To answer our question, Help them? The kind of personal growth I refer to is such that they can only come to understanding on their own. Simply put, IMO you can't help them, they have to help themselves.They will continue to use people as they see fit until they come to a realization about the net effect upon those in their sphere of influence.

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LA, I don't think what you describe is a bottom vs. submissive divide at all. I've had LTRs with a couple of bottom and switch men who weren't selfish, wanted to please me, were interesting to talk with about non-kink things, and so forth. Nobody wants selfish jerks, regardless of their BDSM orientation.

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ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

quote:

ORIGINAL: spankyslut

LA am I slow or what? Maybe it puts emphasis a very important point, perhaps even the most important points.

To answer our question, Help them? The kind of personal growth I refer to is such that they can only come to understanding on their own. Simply put, IMO you can't help them, they have to help themselves.They will continue to use people as they see fit until they come to a realization about the net effect upon those in their sphere of influence.

That is pretty much how I look at it. You can lead the horse to water but if that horse doesn't think it needs the water, it's not going to drink.

Based upon what I've read, these s-types will continue to blame the dominant women in one breath and whine about being alone in the next breath. You cannot educate the willfully stupid.

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ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

LadyAngelika,

You talk about the "images" that promote such "over-fetishization" of dominant women, but you play right into it with your own avatar. I find it odd that you are concerned about male submissives seeking the type of dominant they see in the media, but you present them with that same type of image in your avatar.

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Yes, you have had many views of your thread and many responses. So do osf on his threads.

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The point is that "fetish" is a word, nothing more, nothing less. On this and your other thread there is much talk about the "improper" use of the word, but there is more than one definition of the term, and only ONE relates to anything sexual. Sure we can debate on whether these other meanings were always the case, but typically the first definition is the one that was "original," and for "fetish" that one isn't about sex

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If you were to set up a "play date" with someone are you going to meet them wearing a housecoat and slippers? I seriously doubt it. Even if you didn't deck yourself out all in leather and chains, you are going to prepare yourself to look your best. Is it over-fetishizing because when a man thinks about submitting to a woman the doesn't imagine her in flannel pajamas, curlers and cold cream on her face?

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My point is that if you believe that something is happening, such as the over-fetishization of dominant women, the way to attempt to correct that problem begins with yourself.

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To the Dommes, how do you deal with this? Does this ever discourage you? What do you do get out of that headspace? Is there anything that can be done to get a man who you think is worth the time and effort out of this headspace?

To the submissive men, have you ever felt torn about this? Have you ever honestly felt you were over fetishizing a Domme? Why do you think that was? How did you work through this? If applicable, how did a Domme help you work through this?

To everyone else, constructive and practical advice as well as your perspective is always welcome of course :-)

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Every picture on your own profile presents the same image that you say helps to cause the problem. Sure you can say that's because the "media" has made those the types of image that men want. But in the end, you are buying into the same image you want to condemn.

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ORIGINAL: spankyslut

LA - Do you hope to inspire them? Don't you think the inspiration has to come from within themselves? Changing for you is not a real change, it's a false sense of complacency. Those who are good at playing "the game" will have you blissfully unaware of just just how much they haven't changed at all.

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Leading them to water is a level of hand-holding that just isn't desired within my relationships. They will change because they will soon be unfulfilled operating under the same premise. The people around them will be unfulfilled, and the challenge to obtain a quality relationship will increase. Perhaps then, they will take a good long look at themselves and how they've objectified those around them and maybe not, but it has to come from within them. Not you