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RE: The Over-Fetishization of the Dominant Woman - 1/5/2010 3:58:55 PM   
LadyAngelika


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss

*sigh.. I'm still on page 2.  


You are too cute! ;-) You can go to the top of page 16 and see kind of like a revised thought to the OP, but then you'd be skipping over a lot of the really good stuff that has been written by so many!

Courage! :-)

- LA

< Message edited by LadyAngelika -- 1/5/2010 4:00:16 PM >


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RE: The Over-Fetishization of the Dominant Woman - 1/5/2010 4:40:22 PM   
spankyslut


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LA -  "True! And maybe what will help is when they meet naturally Dominant women who can show them that they can live a balanced-life with D/s well integrated into it."

I highly doubt that as a viable solution until and unless the submissive experiences the personal growth, and that can only come from themselves. I also mentioned and begin to think on another level where they want to see what lies beyond the Domme facade. Until then, any quality Dominant they may meet would likely experience a great deal of difficulty and frustration obtaining the type of emotional fulfillment required to sustain the relationship. I've said it earlier, and now again. Personally, it seems like too much work.

(in reply to sunshinemiss)
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RE: The Over-Fetishization of the Dominant Woman - 1/5/2010 5:31:19 PM   
LadyAngelika


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quote:

Personally, it seems like too much work.


I agree with you for many cases, it probably would be. I think every situation is different. And as we often say here, YMMV!

- LA



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Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

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RE: The Over-Fetishization of the Dominant Woman - 1/5/2010 5:48:00 PM   
spankyslut


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LA - could be different but they would have to have a large amount of potential and compatibility in other areas. I don't know what YMMV means, but right back atcha!

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RE: The Over-Fetishization of the Dominant Woman - 1/5/2010 5:51:04 PM   
LafayetteLady


Posts: 7683
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From: Northern New Jersey
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quote:

ORIGINAL: seekingOwnertoo

Lafayette Lady ...

I have read Your three posts here on this thread ... and frankly ... I do not understand Your point.

You try to explain things ... and quote from others ... but what ever Your point is ... you never say it ... in a manner i understand.

All i can see ... is that you are a submisive woman ... who is opinionated ...

When i think back to the original question the OP asked ... you don't even know what it is ...


Actually, I list as a "switch," however, it is quite clear that you seem to have an issue with a "submissive" being "opinionated."

quote:

ORIGINAL: seekingOwnertoo
You Ms Lafeyette Lady ... are a "to everyone else" ... but what is Your point?


Well thank you so much for telling me who I am. I greatly appreciate it, if not for your telling me, I would have no idea. Yes, that's snarky. Yes, it is meant to be.

quote:

ORIGINAL: seekingOwnertoo
Clearly, you KNOW the modern MEDIA uses FEMALE BODIES to SELL ADVERTISING ... just look at the wholesome good SPORTS ILLISTRATED SWIM SUIT Edition are you okay with this ... or ...

do you simply see it as a Dom telling his subs what to do?


I'm not the one who has taken issue with how one group of people is viewing another. As for the Sports Illustrated Swimsuit Edition, Maxim and the like I personally don't read them. However, look at the Calvin Klein ads, men and women in the media are quite often portrayed in very seductive manners. Just like size 0 women are used, likewise for the guy with the 6 pack, the delicious looking "goody trail," and the tight butt. It ISN'T one sided.


quote:

ORIGINAL: seekingOwnertoo
I really looked over your posts ... as well as LA's profile ... and i think LA's profile is a beautiful piece of written and visual art ...


And somewhere in you "really looking over my posts" you saw me say something negative about LA's profile? Or you saw me point out that the photos on her profile and some of the text caters to the fantasy that she is unhappy about?

quote:

ORIGINAL: seekingOwnertoo
Perhaps You ... as a submisive woman ... get so many guys here ...

That You Can Write A Lot Of Words Without A Point .... that is not true here ....

So in 50 words or less ... please do make your point ...

cause baby ... you are all over the map ...

and you make no sense ...


As you probably have noticed here, there are those who did understand what I said. All of which I might point out were written as complete sentences not a bunch of disconnected points. Since others understand my statements, you are obviously not the barometer of what makes sense or doesn't. Peonforher and MsMillgrove understood quite well what I was saying. I would suggest that since you need a more simplified version that you look to their explanations for understanding. I really can't "dumb it down" for you, nor do I care to bother.

I will, however, point out something to you that many, many women find to be not only trite and disrespectful, but also something men who fancy themselves players. Calling women they don't know from adam, "baby." That comment tells me everything I would ever need to know about you.

(in reply to seekingOwnertoo)
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RE: The Over-Fetishization of the Dominant Woman - 1/5/2010 5:57:52 PM   
LafayetteLady


Posts: 7683
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From: Northern New Jersey
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyIsaac

For what? Some have used that justification to explain rape. Is it correct? Being sexualized, or using sexual imagery isn't the dilemma. It's when she becomes nothing more than an object in another person's mind. The OP is talking about OVER-fetishization, implying fetishization in of itself is NOT the issue.



That's quite a leap, but nothing less than I would expect from you. To be clear no women deserves to be raped, it isn't an act of sex, just so you know. Did you not understand MY example? A women with large breasts wearing a blouse cut down to her navel with no bra really doesn't have the right to complain when a man stares at her breasts. Here's another one, if Jessica Simpson doesn't want people to think of her as a "dumb blonde" asking if "Chicken of the Sea" is tuna or chicken isn't going to help her in that quest.

But feel free to try to twist the context into something that will suit your purpose.

(in reply to SimplyIsaac)
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RE: The Over-Fetishization of the Dominant Woman - 1/5/2010 7:17:16 PM   
LadyAngelika


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady
But feel free to try to twist the context into something that will suit your purpose.


And if he wants to learn how to do it, he just has to follow your example! ;-)

LafayetteLady, you are angry. Unecessarily so. I love a good debate as long as it isn't done with hostility. And you started off hostile from me from the get go.

No, you said nothing against, my profile? Hmmm...

quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady
You post quite a lovely piece of artwork (remember I didn't say that I didn't LIKE it, only that it presents the kind of image that will perpetuate the fantasy), photos of your breasts and high heels with a crop, a short skirt and a cane (you have nice legs by the way), and instruct people writing to you to call you "LadyAngelika" and nothing else.


Nah, that was nothing wrong, just insinuations. And the only line you can pick out of the 750+ words I wrote? Nicely hand picked! And as I explained to Peon, that was put there to avoid being called my Goddess, my Mistress, etc.

Since you wish to point out only the parts of my profile that you want, let me point out my personal favorite bits:

Outside of kink, I am an accomplished woman and a natural leader, who loves to discover, share and laugh. What I cherish most are the friendships I've developed over time.

[...]

I am very selective and prefer men, who like myself, are professional, educated and live a full life. I also appreciate individuals with culture and class and can delve into a variety of topics that do not include their kink. Cleverness, wit and a sense of humour are also a must!

[...]

I'm looking for one man, and one man only, with whom I will build a romantic relationship, where the intimate dynamics will revolve around domination and submission. Of course, I'm in no rush and want to take my time to get to know him, but a relationship is my goal. Novices are fine, even delightful, as long as they have come to the realisation that this is the kind of dynamic that they want.

Of course there are kinky parts to my profile. As I explained earlier, instead of filling out the likes checklist because it felt too much like a kink list, and actually doesn't include many of the things I like, I weaved my kink and non-kink likes into the profile.

And for the record, I'm not being defensive. Of course, when someone is flippant or hostile with us and we react, we get treated as being defensive. Rather I am simply standing up for myself in light of your unwarranted slander.

And in the end, none of this even remotely addresses the OP, which is perhaps the sadest part of this all.

So in light of this, I'll be ignoring your comments from now on. I won't waste any time on trying to have an intelligent discussion with an ill-intended individual. That isn't how I roll!

- LA

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RE: The Over-Fetishization of the Dominant Woman - 1/5/2010 7:41:37 PM   
slavekal


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You really can't have it both ways.  If you want to be worshipped like a Goddess, you have to be willing to stand on the pedestal.  Every good thing comes with a price.

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(in reply to LadyAngelika)
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RE: The Over-Fetishization of the Dominant Woman - 1/5/2010 7:45:20 PM   
LadyAngelika


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slavekal

You really can't have it both ways.  If you want to be worshipped like a Goddess, you have to be willing to stand on the pedestal.  Every good thing comes with a price.


And the man who will treat me like a Goddess will do so because he has gotten to know me a whole person, strengths, weaknesses and all. And I don't really see "the price" in that :-)

- LA

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RE: The Over-Fetishization of the Dominant Woman - 1/5/2010 8:01:15 PM   
LadyAngelika


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quote:

ORIGINAL: spankyslut

LA - could be different but they would have to have a large amount of potential and compatibility in other areas.


Oh absolutely! Otherwise I'd just be a masochist! ;-)

quote:

I don't know what YMMV means, but right back atcha!


Are we playing ping-pong? :-) By the way, in case you didn't notice, I agree with pretty much a lot of what you are saying.

- LA

< Message edited by LadyAngelika -- 1/5/2010 8:02:04 PM >


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RE: The Over-Fetishization of the Dominant Woman - 1/5/2010 8:21:11 PM   
Rochsub2009


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika
To the submissive men, have you ever felt torn about this? Have you ever honestly felt you were over fetishizing a Domme? Why do you think that was? How did you work through this? If applicable, how did a Domme help you work through this?


Lady Angelika,
Sorry to be late to this party, but i was away for the holidays.  Now that i'm back from vacation, i am getting caught up on my reading.  (BTW, happy New Year, Luv).

Before making my comments, i must admit that this thread is very long, so i didn't read all of it.  Thus, i apologize if i repeat something that has already been said.

i definitely think that dominant women are over-fetishized (is that a word?).  But in many cases, it is both innocent and understandable.  i'd use the analogy of a professional football player.  Take Tony Romo for example (since even non-football fans are aware of who he is).  To the outsider, Tony Romo is the guy in pads and a helmet who throws touchdowns for the Dallas Cowboys.  This image is accurate, and it is the image that 90% of the world thinks of when they hear the name Tony Romo. 

However, when Jessica Simpson thinks of Tony Romo, she probably envisions the guy in jeans and a t-shirt that she goes shopping with on Saturday afternoons.  Or the guy in his pajamas who kisses her goodnight.  Or the guy with drool running down the side of his face when he falls asleep in his La-Z-Boy.

Both images of Tony Romo are correct.  But the first one is the perception of outsiders who only have a limited view/understanding of Tony Romo.  To them, he is always the hero on the field.  He always wears pads and a helmet.  This is the sports equivalent of being over-fetishized.

Jessica Simpson's view of Romo is much deeper.  She sees the person beneath the pads.  She knows that he is still a Dallas Cowboy even when he is at home wearing khakis.  She sees the real person. 

The leather-clad, bossy, dominatrix in 5-inch heels is analogous to Tony Romo in his football uniform.  It is the first image that pops into people's minds when they think of a Domme.  It is not necessarily inaccurate.  However, it is a limited, surface-level view.  It fails to recognize the many facets of the person underneath the costume.

Novices and "do-me" subs probably envision Dommes in leather and latex 24/7.  But more experienced subs get the "Jessica Simpson view" of their Domme.

I can't remember the last time one of my Dommes wore leather or latex or thigh-high boots.  But that didn't make them any less dominant.  Of course, my relationships tend to be far more vanilla than most BDSMers.  No leather.  No latex.  No over-fetishization.  Just 24/7 TPE.  No costumes or stereotypical behaviors are necessary. 

IMO, true dominance comes from the inside, not from a leather outfit.  i remember one particular Domme that i lived with for 2 years (or more accurately, She lived with me).  In all that time, we NEVER wore BDSM attire of any type.  We lived together in a female-led relationship.  When She ordered me to run a hot bath for Her, or to make breakfast for Her, or to give Her a massage, i said "Yes Ma'am".  No whips or leather were required. She was the boss, even when She was wearing ratty pajamas.

To be honest, it took me a long time to reach this point.  When i was younger, i probably did envision Dommes in stereotypical, over-fetishized ways.  But that changed with experience. 

i believe that the over-fetishization is more prevalent in those subs who merely have sessions with Dommes (though i have no data to prove this).  IMO, sessions are more like fantasy role playing, and so costumes are appropriate.  But when you are in a LTR, it is difficult and impractical to be in costume all of the time.  So the costumes tend to disappear, and all that is left is the real people underneath the outfits.

(BTW, i apologize if my sports analogy was lacking.  It made sense in my head, but it may not be quite so clear here on the written page.  i also apologize to those like LadyPact who enjoy wearing leather.  i did not mean to imply that those who enjoy leather and latex are somehow less than those who don't wear those items).


< Message edited by Rochsub2009 -- 1/5/2010 8:48:06 PM >

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RE: The Over-Fetishization of the Dominant Woman - 1/5/2010 8:32:17 PM   
LadyAngelika


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Happy New Year to you too, sweetie! I hope you had nice, relaxing holidays.

You totally got the OP.

quote:

i definitely think that dominant women are over-fetishized (is that a word?). But in many cases, it is both innocent and understandable.


Agreed 100%. That is what I meant by: Let's, for one moment, suppose that not all the men that over-fetishize dominant women are wankers or trolls.

And you were spot on about this comment:

quote:

To be honest, it took me a long time to reach this point. When i was younger, i probably did envision Dommes in stereotypical, over-fetishized ways. But that changed with experience.


That has pretty much been the popular opinion of those who understood what this thread was about. Maturity and exposure to real people involved in WIITWD was how to get that experience.

Thank you for posting. And I totally loved you football analogy!

- LA





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RE: The Over-Fetishization of the Dominant Woman - 1/5/2010 8:50:49 PM   
slavekal


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I am not suggesting that a Mistress has to wear leather and thigh high boots twenty four hours a day.  Once in a while is nice, though.  But slavish obedience and devotion are not just automatic.  They have to be elicited and inspired.  It works the other way around, too.  I can't expect a lady to be all turned on my me if I go around unshaven, belching and passing gas in front of her.  Sure, that is a facet of me.  But it is a facet best kept under wraps.  If I expect a lady to respond to me, I should shower, wear socks without holes, and chew with my mouth closed.  When I am with the guys, I can loosen up a bit.

_____________________________

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RE: The Over-Fetishization of the Dominant Woman - 1/5/2010 9:00:31 PM   
SimplyIsaac


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Joined: 12/20/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady


quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyIsaac

For what? Some have used that justification to explain rape. Is it correct? Being sexualized, or using sexual imagery isn't the dilemma. It's when she becomes nothing more than an object in another person's mind. The OP is talking about OVER-fetishization, implying fetishization in of itself is NOT the issue.



That's quite a leap, but nothing less than I would expect from you. To be clear no women deserves to be raped, it isn't an act of sex, just so you know.


Given that you claim to be involved in law and/or social work, I'm fairly shocked you would say something so ignorant. There are many theories about the motivation behind rape. It is thought to be a crime of violence, power, hatred, sadism, and sexual gratification. There are even bioevolutionary theories regarding this behavior, as the act involves sex.


quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady
Did you not understand MY example? A women with large breasts wearing a blouse cut down to her navel with no bra really doesn't have the right to complain when a man stares at her breasts.


Did you not understand my comparison? Your line of thinking inevitably leads to blaming the victim, not the perpetrator of an act. Similar arguments have been made in rape cases where the girl was accused of "asking for it" due to little more than her choice of evening ensemble.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady
But feel free to try to twist the context into something that will suit your purpose.


The context was twisted originally by you in this thread, as per usual. Having men be attracted sexually to a potential Mistress (and her taking advantage of that) isn't the problem; it's gratuitous objectification and the related lemmings mentality that is this thread's subject.

(in reply to LafayetteLady)
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RE: The Over-Fetishization of the Dominant Woman - 1/7/2010 7:34:53 AM   
hardbodysub


Posts: 1654
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quote:

Oh absolutely! Otherwise I'd just be a masochist! ;-)


... not that there's anything wrong with that ...
(apologies to Seinfeld)

(in reply to LadyAngelika)
Profile   Post #: 335
RE: The Over-Fetishization of the Dominant Woman - 1/7/2010 7:37:24 AM   
hardbodysub


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quote:

To the outsider, Tony Romo is the guy in pads and a helmet who throws touchdowns for the Dallas Cowboys.  This image is accurate, and it is the image that 90% of the world thinks of when they hear the name Tony Romo. 


Oh, I don't know. Most of the outsiders I know think of Tony Romo as the guy who fumbles and throws interceptions.

(in reply to Rochsub2009)
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RE: The Over-Fetishization of the Dominant Woman - 1/7/2010 10:15:14 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rochsub2009
BTW, i apologize if my sports analogy was lacking.  It made sense in my head, but it may not be quite so clear here on the written page.  i also apologize to those like LadyPact who enjoy wearing leather.  i did not mean to imply that those who enjoy leather and latex are somehow less than those who don't wear those items.


No apologies are necessary on My behalf.  I like wearing it and others don't.  In My opinion, it's not about being less or more.  It's just something that I enjoy, so I'm going to continue enjoying it.


_____________________________

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RE: The Over-Fetishization of the Dominant Woman - 1/7/2010 8:24:29 PM   
LadyAngelika


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quote:

ORIGINAL: hardbodysub

quote:

Oh absolutely! Otherwise I'd just be a masochist! ;-)


... not that there's anything wrong with that ...
(apologies to Seinfeld)


True! But there are better forms of masochism then others, in my opinion of course ;-)

- LA

_____________________________

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RE: The Over-Fetishization of the Dominant Woman - 1/7/2010 9:14:50 PM   
ohnomo


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I think it is the hollywood culture, think about this for a moment.  When ever you see a dominant woman in a movie or on tv they are always what I like to call, "characterized"  leather outfits, high heels and perfect makeup.  In my humble opininon, a woman can be just as domineering in a pair of bluejeans and a tshirt.  Until the outside world understands this is not a game, women will always be objects of the men writing the scripts.  Just my thoughts, take em or leave em.

(in reply to theRose4U)
Profile   Post #: 339
RE: The Over-Fetishization of the Dominant Woman - 1/7/2010 9:29:06 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
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quote:

In my humble opininon, a woman can be just as domineering in a pair of bluejeans and a tshirt.


Agreed. Though personally I tend to stick to being dominant and avoid as best I can any kind of domineering attitude.

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

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