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ORIGINAL: VeryMercurial

You are so cute when you are mad LaT.
I refuse to take responsibility for anyone that is not under my authority.
You are a cutie.
; )

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What I see, in reading all of these threads...........is a lot of fetish bottoms masquarading as submissive/slaves, perhaps even fooling themselves and a few, very few, submissive men that really do 'get it'. ...

In comparison, I see a lot of dominant women that are sorting through all of these bottoms, trying to find a compatible submissive male. And a few female tops that do not necessarily want or need a submissive but an honest bottom willing to play her way.

To compound things, the bottoms are communicating with the dominant women, expecting them to be tops, AND cater first and foremost to their bottom kinks with less regard to their top needs, let alone their dominant needs.

And, when they find the perfect fetish top, willing to service their bottom needs, they are mortified to learn that they might have to pay for the pleasure.

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

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ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

Let's put this whole thing into perspective.

On one thread we will have a dozen male submissives whining about how they cannot find their dream dominant woman. Pissing and moaning about how lonnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnggggggggggg they've been looking and they just do not understand WHY they haven't been snatched up by the perfect ONE. They get many, intelligent and well thought out replies from perfectly wonderful dominant women. Most of which, those whining men refuse to listen to, or waste hundreds of keystrokes defending their particular 'needs' they cannot seem to get met.

On this thread we have dominant women attempting to have a discussion about the over fetishization they feel from submissive men. Then we have at least one, male submissive, saying that, in essence, it is the women's fault they are overly fetishized.

What I see, in reading all of these threads...........is a lot of fetish bottoms masquarading as submissive/slaves, perhaps even fooling themselves and a few, very few, submissive men that really do 'get it'. And while I am not looking for a submissive male, I try to tell them that they are awesome men and that the woman that they end up with will be blessed with a treasure.

In comparison, I see a lot of dominant women that are sorting through all of these bottoms, trying to find a compatible submissive male. And a few female tops that do not necessarily want or need a submissive but an honest bottom willing to play her way.

To compound things, the bottoms are communicating with the dominant women, expecting them to be tops, AND cater first and foremost to their bottom kinks with less regard to their top needs, let alone their dominant needs.

And, when they find the perfect fetish top, willing to service their bottom needs, they are mortified to learn that they might have to pay for the pleasure.

If these bottoms want a fetish life support, they need to stop projecting their fetish kink onto the dominant women looking for a sincere submissive male.

And THAT disjointed blah blah blah, is what is driving this thread and most others.

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ORIGINAL: LadyPact

Panting over Me, LaT.  My goodness, I had no idea.  LOL.  (I really do hope you know that's just good natured ribbing.  I am still ingesting caffeine this AM and it doesn't seem to come out right.)

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Now here's a couple of statements that are directed at someone.  Are you denying or wishing us to believe that Dommes do not use sex as a means of attracting males? Don't use sex as a means of manipulating males? Do not dress sexy with intent to entice, and so on? If so, I'll check and see if there's an extra "dose of reality pill" lying around somewhere that I can give you.

As for wearing leather because "it feels good"...lol.(Lady Pact) I used to hand-craft leather and love it myself. I can assure you that if you do not intent to project a sexy image there are many patterns available for making non-enticing leather wearables. Liking the feel of leather is not a good excuse IMHO......

I'm not going to waste My time attempting to speak for all Dominant women.  That's an exercise in futility.  It's the very same over generalization that I think was the basis for My earlier comment and I'm not going to get into that.  I can only speak from My perspective and I'm not going to try to justify everyone's thought process on the subject.

Why you seem bent on the fact that I have to justify what I wear or come up with an excuse that makes you happy, I honestly don't understand.  Can you just not get what I'm saying at face value?  Hey, but if you want to send Me leather outfits that conform to your ideas, I'll put you in touch with My boy and you can send to your heart's content.  If you can come up with a leather skirt that fits properly and isn't 'enticing' (as you use the word), it's all good.

From My point of view, if I'm someplace where leather is an appropriate fashion, chances are that I don't really care who else is looking at it or what's going on in their head.  The exception to this is other females who like whatever corset that I'm wearing, so that I can refer them to the person who makes them.  (Her name is MsMartha on this site, btw.  Ask her how many referrals I've sent her over the years.)  Usually, I'm wherever I'm at for either the social factor or because it's a chance to use a variety of equipment (dungeon furniture) that I don't have at home.  When it's the latter, I'm there for the S/m and it's either with clip or one of My other play partners.  If I'm playing, I really don't care who else is around or what they think.

Maybe that's where the dose of reality pill should come in.  Believe it or not, there really are some Dominant women out there who just don't care what other people think and know that they aren't responsible for whatever it is that other people dream up in their heads.

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ORIGINAL: Politesub53

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ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

To the submissive men, have you ever felt torn about this? Have you ever honestly felt you were over fetishizing a Domme? Why do you think that was? How did you work through this? If applicable, how did a Domme help you work through this?


- LA

Okay LadyA, hands up, Im busted. Guilty as charged your honour. But, is it really so unexpected ? Some avatars, such as the one you are using, are dominant images. Yes it is exquisite, yes it is erotic, surely that is the whole point of it. So my initial thought, looking at an avatar like that, or a profile of a Domina with a whip, cane ect is, this Lady is dominant.

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As has been stated, media portrayal surely makes for stereotypes, at least for an intial perception about someone. If I see a profile of a woman holding a cane, it transports me back to school, where one had to obey the rules. It isnt a case of me fetishising, its just how it is, based on prior experiences.

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That said, if I want a relationship I look past that. I look to see what type of person I am interacting with. Is she honest, is she kind, does she make me laugh, are we a good match ect ect. The fact is we are all on a bdsm website, and by nature, intial perceptions will be one of dominance vs submission. By this I mean men looking for a very dominant woman, are more likely to gravitate to a very dominant photo.It seems to me that the problem is when we eroticise the clothing, persona ect, and that becomes the attraction, not the woman underneath the clothing. Maybe that is just how some, not all, submissive men are wired.

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If you take vanilla dating as an example, men are accused of being anal about looks. This isnt as suprising as it seems though. History shows us that all the things we find attractive point to one thing. A healthy partner. In days gone be this was essential for survival of the species. I could go into detail here about the ratio effect in what we consider attractive, faces ect ( its 1 to 1:6 ) IE the mouth is 1.6 times wider than the nose.

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For myself, a "glance" or an "excuse me" grabs my attention just as quick as someone holding a whip ( Granted the whip probably works quicker..lol ) Either type of domination, either the soft approach or the bitch approach works with me. I think I prefer the former, although that could change. My view on the so called traditional Domina " Look " is its just that, a "Look". It isnt the person and it isnt a projection of what I am thinking. It is dominant though, and yes it is sexy. I know not all men hold my views so your experiences may differ.

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What helps halt the confussion, at least those that bother with them, are threads such as this one. We can all read and learn from one another. Males and females often hold different perceptions of things and as ever, communication is the key.

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Anyhow, great question and some very insightful and helpful replies.

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ORIGINAL: Underumam

I'm still in shock......Women dress sexy, advertise themselves through the promotion of sexually explicit pics, suggestions and inuendo, then they chastise us for liking it.

Go figure.......lol.

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ORIGINAL: Underumam
Of course there are Lady Pact, and I never inferred all Femdoms are the same.  And you know that you don't have to justify anything you wear to anyone. But yet somehow there's a double standard here. Because most of the time, we submissives have to continually justify ourselves. Of course some of us are wankers, and personally, I don't see many of this type as being truly submissive. But none the less, there are many sincere male subs here, and frankly, it gets old and redundant when were so frequently referred to as sex addicts and wank-offs who care nothing about the females in our life. The problems that Femdoms and male-subs face are as old as men and women themselves..lol. I guess we still have a ways to go..Peace and Happy New Year.

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ORIGINAL: VeryMercurial

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ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

So you are saying that women are responsible for how men behave. I am saying that is bullshit.

Pick the hottest women I can imagine and put her right smack in front of me in the most sexually attractive dress/position/words possible and there is only ONE person responsible for how I behave towards her and it sure as hell isn't her.

LaT, I am assuming you are a woman looking at other women.
As a woman, how can you speak for how men think?
If the two men above say that is how they think, how can you tell them HOW they think?
That makes no sense to me.

I am a woman, and I cannot think for men, because I am not a man.
This is what is confusing me.

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In analysing visual culture, the concept of The Gaze (also gaze and Le regard in French) describes how the viewer gazes upon (views) the people presented and represented. As a concept of social power relations, the 1960s ascendancy of postmodern philosophy and postmodern social theory, as exposited by the intellectuals Michel Foucault (the medical gaze) and Jacques Lacan (the mirror stage gaze), popularised usage of the gaze as a term.

Feminist theory developed The Gaze in describing the social power relations between women and men — how men gaze at women; how women gaze at themselves; how women gaze at other women; and the effects of these ways of seeing. Moreover, critical theorists, such as Cornel West, use the Normative Gaze concept in describing how a Euro-centric racial identity (being a white-skinned-ethnic) is an intellectual lens with which Europeans gaze at other human races as social constructs (coloured-skin-ethnics), and not as persons equal to a European.

In cinema, Laura Mulvey identifies such gazes as the Male Gaze, analogously, Bracha Ettinger posits the existence of the Matrixial Gaze in Art, psychoanalysis, and French feminism.

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ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

Let's put this whole thing into perspective.

On one thread we will have a dozen male submissives whining about how they cannot find their dream dominant woman. Pissing and moaning about how lonnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnggggggggggg they've been looking and they just do not understand WHY they haven't been snatched up by the perfect ONE. They get many, intelligent and well thought out replies from perfectly wonderful dominant women. Most of which, those whining men refuse to listen to, or waste hundreds of keystrokes defending their particular 'needs' they cannot seem to get met.

On this thread we have dominant women attempting to have a discussion about the over fetishization they feel from submissive men. Then we have at least one, male submissive, saying that, in essence, it is the women's fault they are overly fetishized.

What I see, in reading all of these threads...........is a lot of fetish bottoms masquarading as submissive/slaves, perhaps even fooling themselves and a few, very few, submissive men that really do 'get it'. And while I am not looking for a submissive male, I try to tell them that they are awesome men and that the woman that they end up with will be blessed with a treasure.

In comparison, I see a lot of dominant women that are sorting through all of these bottoms, trying to find a compatible submissive male. And a few female tops that do not necessarily want or need a submissive but an honest bottom willing to play her way.

To compound things, the bottoms are communicating with the dominant women, expecting them to be tops, AND cater first and foremost to their bottom kinks with less regard to their top needs, let alone their dominant needs.

And, when they find the perfect fetish top, willing to service their bottom needs, they are mortified to learn that they might have to pay for the pleasure.

If these bottoms want a fetish life support, they need to stop projecting their fetish kink onto the dominant women looking for a sincere submissive male.

And THAT disjointed blah blah blah, is what is driving this thread and most others.

quote:


There is also a group that, as I was saying on another thread, really just don't know yet because they don't have the experience of an actual long term dynamic with a Dominant woman. This is the group that I think (again, could be wrong) that LadyAngelika might have had in mind when she created the original. The folks that, for whatever reason, don't have the reality and are still in something of the fantasy stage and how do you sift through all of that. Some of them out there might have potential and some of them might be so focused on the other crap that they are about as submissive as My cat.

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To the submissive men, have you ever felt torn about this? Have you ever honestly felt you were over fetishizing a Domme?

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As a consequence of all this, I'm finding more and more that I'm having issues finding strong submissive men who understand ***what a naturally dominant woman is.***

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I do understand the position. I'd be looking at it from the two angles of 1) how much time do you want to invest through the online method which may not satisfy the relationship desires and 2) how much time do you want to attempt to find a way through vanilla channels, especially when it comes to your sadism. I often don't envy folks who are in this position regardless of role or orientation. It seems to be a very challenging proposition.