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ORIGINAL: Underumam

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ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

So you are saying that women are responsible for how men behave. I am saying that is bullshit.

Pick the hottest women I can imagine and put her right smack in front of me in the most sexually attractive dress/position/words possible and there is only ONE person responsible for how I behave towards her and it sure as hell isn't her.

Not at all, I don't believe in victims on any level....I am saying that women know males will react to certain stimuli, and any time I hear a woman say this is not so, or that they don't do that in this lifestyle- I call bull shit.......

Gotta run- Happy New Year...

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ORIGINAL: Lockit

I think what LaT is saying is... be accountable for your own behavior or reactions and don't blame them on someone else because of how you perceive them.

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ORIGINAL: Lockit

Okay... let's go another direction. Say a woman was to dress for success or look sexy. Say she did it to look sexy and draw attention.

What attention or forms of attention would be acceptable? What would be out of line?

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ORIGINAL: VeryMercurial

Personally, I think people are free to wear whatever they want.
No one is saying they can't.

What I am saying, and I can only speak for myself, is this.
There are men and women that are sex addicts, porn addicts and fetish addicts.
Many men are visual creatures, and many think with their dicks.

We are free to wear whatever we like, we are free to put up whatever pictures we like.
When we are approached by people that misinterpret what we are about, we are then free
to correct them.
I still feel that many women often present themselves one way, and are quick to get angry about the attention they get.
I work with women that wear very tight revealing clothes, then are always upset that men are commenting on how they look or showing interest.
I try to tell them in a nice way, that perhaps they are getting that attention based on the way they are presenting themselves.
These women like to pretend they don't understand why men approach them a certain way, but at 40 I think they are not really that clueless.
Some of the clothes they wear, I can't help but stare at, and I often don't bother hiding when I am looking, and I am a woman.

I agree LadyPact that people should not be judged by appearances, but I just can't think of many instances on-line and in the real world, where that is not true.
Here is an examle, I am home washing clothes, if I decide to change and put on daisy dukes and a halter top, I would get a lot more attention from the painters in the hall, and others in my building, when I go put my clothes in the dryer.
When I go to the store soon, if I take off my coat and go in the store with a low cut halter dress on, I really would expect to get a certain amount of attention.

I am just puzzled by women that wear revealing or suggestive clothing that get bent out of shape or surprised by the comments they get, from random men on the internet or in the real world.
We can just not control what others think of the way we chose to present ourselves: good, bad, naughty, suggestive, sterotypical or indifferent.
I see many women and men online that look like walking stereotypes, I may not know them personally, but they look like a sterotype from a BDSM, fetish, sex or porn magazine.
They have every right to dress this way, but I think many freely provide, fuel and feed the frenzy.

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ORIGINAL: VeryMercurial

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ORIGINAL: Lockit

I think what LaT is saying is... be accountable for your own behavior or reactions and don't blame them on someone else because of how you perceive them.

Lockit, that is obvious to all.
I am saying let the men speak for themselves.
Let the women speak for themselves.

If a man says that is how most men think, than let him speak.

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ORIGINAL: VeryMercurial

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ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

So you are saying that women are responsible for how men behave. I am saying that is bullshit.

Pick the hottest women I can imagine and put her right smack in front of me in the most sexually attractive dress/position/words possible and there is only ONE person responsible for how I behave towards her and it sure as hell isn't her.

LaT, I am assuming you are a woman looking at other women.
As a woman, how can you speak for how men think?
If the two men above say that is how they think, how can you tell them HOW they think?
That makes no sense to me.

I am a woman, and I cannot think for men, because I am not a man.
This is what is confusing me.

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ORIGINAL: Politesub53

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ORIGINAL: VeryMercurial

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ORIGINAL: Lockit

I think what LaT is saying is... be accountable for your own behavior or reactions and don't blame them on someone else because of how you perceive them.

Lockit, that is obvious to all.
I am saying let the men speak for themselves.
Let the women speak for themselves.

If a man says that is how most men think, than let him speak.

The problem with that is he may not speak for most men. Just for those with a view like his own. I agree with LaT that we are all responsible for how we respond to specifics. I just think that certain types of attire are more likely to result in attracting certain types of men, or women.

Once again we are in the murky question of what happens after that intial attraction.

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ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

And if you find, taking responsibility for the behaviour of every single man that you engage with, acceptable.........that is your thing.

I refuse to be responsible for the behaviour of every male I encounter in my life.

Some people think bare feet are sexy. I am not going to wear closed shoes the rest of my life to avoid having some putz, that just couldn't control his behaviour, think I am inviting his advances towards my feet. Not even if I am wearing hot red polish on my toenails!

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ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

I very much CAN, and do, control how people treat me. If a submissive tries to treat me as a life support for their fetish, they will find themselves talking/typing, to themselves.

And yes, I am discussing the OP. We have one person attempting to say it is the responsibility of the dominant woman that the submissive men treat/view her as a fetish object. I am saying that is a cop out, pure and simple.

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ORIGINAL: VeryMercurial

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ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

I very much CAN, and do, control how people treat me. If a submissive tries to treat me as a life support for their fetish, they will find themselves talking/typing, to themselves.

And yes, I am discussing the OP. We have one person attempting to say it is the responsibility of the dominant woman that the submissive men treat/view her as a fetish object. I am saying that is a cop out, pure and simple.

LaT we agree!!!
People can only really treat you the way you allow them to treat you!!
They can attempt to fetishize you, but if you STOP them {as I do}, they can only do it in their heads.
If someone wants to wank to a picture, you can't stop that.
But you can control how you allow others to treat you in a relationship.
I agree with you 100%, the responsibility is with the WOMAN.
You can  sit and piss, moan and cry about the way men are, but at the end of the day, the only actions
most of us can control are our actions.
That is why I told her yesterday, I don't have this problem, I don't allow it.

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ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

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ORIGINAL: VeryMercurial

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ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

So you are saying that women are responsible for how men behave. I am saying that is bullshit.

Pick the hottest women I can imagine and put her right smack in front of me in the most sexually attractive dress/position/words possible and there is only ONE person responsible for how I behave towards her and it sure as hell isn't her.

LaT, I am assuming you are a woman looking at other women.
As a woman, how can you speak for how men think?
If the two men above say that is how they think, how can you tell them HOW they think?
That makes no sense to me.

I am a woman, and I cannot think for men, because I am not a man.
This is what is confusing me.

I am not attempting to think for men. I am saying that a man saying how a woman behaves or dresses is responsible for how he treats/views women is bullshit.

Underuman is coming across as viewing men victims to the wicked wiles of those whores that dare to dress and conduct themself in a sexual manner. Then the 'oh woe is me because I get told I am being a wanker for saying they are acting like whores and us poor lil ole simple men cannot help ourselves'. He is repeatedly saying "women know men will act this way so they should change their behaviour to avoid tempting these poor men/victims that cannot restrain themselves."

It is that madonna whore perception that sucks. Many women find a fit man's naked torso sexy, or a man with a nice ass in a tight pair of jeans hot. Yet I see no women saying they see the men that dress (or undress) as being responsible for their reaction to such.......or calling them male sluts for their appearance.

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Now here's a couple of statements that are directed at someone.  Are you denying or wishing us to believe that Dommes do not use sex as a means of attracting males? Don't use sex as a means of manipulating males? Do not dress sexy with intent to entice, and so on? If so, I'll check and see if there's an extra "dose of reality pill" lying around somewhere that I can give you.

As for wearing leather because "it feels good"...lol.(Lady Pact) I used to hand-craft leather and love it myself. I can assure you that if you do not intent to project a sexy image there are many patterns available for making non-enticing leather wearables. Liking the feel of leather is not a good excuse IMHO......

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ORIGINAL: LaTigresse
It is that madonna whore perception that sucks. Many women find a fit man's naked torso sexy, or a man with a nice ass in a tight pair of jeans hot. Yet I see no women saying they see the men that dress (or undress) as being responsible for their reaction to such.......or calling them male sluts for their appearance.