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RE: choices - 1/13/2010 12:29:21 AM   
osf


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life is all about choices, and no matter how many choices you start with it will boil down to a choice between the last two.

in this case it was a choice between the stronger/demanding or the less demanding/more agreeable person

it was only a question to provoke thought of which direction you leaned, to say neither is in fact to cop out and make no decision

it's like you get the hamburger or the hot dog or you starve

well i guess starving is an option





< Message edited by osf -- 1/13/2010 12:30:45 AM >


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RE: choices - 1/13/2010 12:41:19 AM   
WyldHrt


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*sigh* No, it isn't a cop out, just an honest answer to the question asked. The fact that you didn't see "option C- neither" coming doesn't make it less valid. You started a thread and are now complaining about the answers you got (as usual).
Had you asked something like, "As a sub, what is more important to you- dominance or kink?", the answers would probably have been different. 
Oh, and I'll take the lasagne.


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RE: choices - 1/13/2010 1:57:12 AM   
sirsholly


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quote:

ORIGINAL: osf

some of the subs in here , it's all about them
it 's all about waiting for a relationship that is RIGHT for them, and that is as it should be.


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RE: choices - 1/13/2010 3:59:38 AM   
ranja


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quote:

ORIGINAL: lucylucy

As a culture, we are very preoccupied with having "choices," but many of our "choices" aren't real. For example, at the grocery store tonight I saw at least five brands of canned black beans. I'm sure there are subtle differences between those brands, but I bet that the average consumer couldn't tell the difference among them in a blind taste test. BUT imagine how irritated people would be if the store carried only one brand. Even I would probably be irritated, and I'm the one who just basically said how stupid it is to have five brands with barely any differences among them. The multiple brands gives the illusion of choice, but our choices among brands of canned beans aren't meaningful choices.

For me, it boils down to consciously ignoring options at some point and choosing to develop what's there in front of me. I suppose some would call that "settling." I call it commitment.


Thank you lucylucy

About the beans: i too am very worried about the ridiculous notion that people need to be able to chose between 5 or more different brands of beans... especially because most (if not all) of these beans are actually produced in the SAME factory... they just stick different labels on the tins... no wonder nobody can taste the difference.
And my main upset about the labels is that the letters are too small for me to read.
I find these two things extremely irritating: if its all the same anyway, then i like one kind of beans with a clearly written label on it!

About the men: There are so many of them, but eventually he chose me, and he was rather sure and forceful and outspoken about wanting me... swoon...
i figured: this man wants me very much... and he is quite ok so i better take his offer, i suspected at that time he might be better at reading labels than i was,
so that was it and then we were committed.
And now there are no more choices but we can add spice or water all we want...

We did go through a period when everything seemed to have boiled dry and stale
and i did consider trying another brand, but then i thought: ah well, why go through all the hassle, it'll just turn out to be the same... better the devil i know!

The thing with beans and men is that there might be slight differences between different men and beans... yet again a bean is a bean and a man is a man
and i think many people are too nit picky for their own good and most of us seem to have troubles reading the labels...

(in reply to lucylucy)
Profile   Post #: 84
RE: choices - 1/13/2010 5:06:08 AM   
CaringandReal


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quote:

ORIGINAL: lucylucy

When I was single I didn't think I would date every available man until I found THE PERFECT ONE. I figured I would date until I found someone whose approach to life resonated with me profoundly. Might I have met another man whose approach to life also resonated with me profoundly if I had kept dating? Maybe yes, maybe no. It doesn't matter, though. I committed to my boyfriend, and once I made that commitment, our connection became much more profound and grew and developed to the point where I couldn't possibly meet someone else whose approach to life resonates more profoundly with me.



What you're describing in the first part of your paragraph is how I (and I think most people who reach a certain stage of maturity) realistically approach new relationships. We look for what we need, whatever it may be, and when we find it or recognize it, we hang onto it rather than seeking out even closer perfection or compatibility (because, hopefully, we've learned by now the distinct disadvantages of abandoning the opportunities life throws one's way for some theoretical idea of how much better things could be). Yes, some people do call that "settling" and regard it scornfully. But I think what what we're seeing in this thread is something else: something you talk about in the last part of the paragraph (and I appreciate the insight, I hadn't seen things like this before).

The majority of submissives answering this thread are women who are already in a committed bdsm relationship or who were recently in one, and to all appearances, content with their prior choice. I was owned for a long time, in a very fulfilling relationship, and I remember feeling similarly to you: I reached the point where I (felt) I couldn't possibly meet someone else who approach to life resonated more profoundly with me. When some people reach that point, I think they may lose the ability to realistically consider a matter such as finding another dominant. I certainly did! Their expectations are not those of a single (and lonely) person looking for happiness with another, they are those of an individual deeply content (or maybe in a few cases pretending content) with their current or recent relationship. In other words, such people are convinced that a new dominant would have to have or be everything their former partner had or it wouldn't be any good. And the imagination almost never strays to the thought, "Maybe these differences would be far from 'settling.' Maybe a new dominant would be much better, much more compatible in new ways I can't possibly imagine than my current mate."

This is a common form of blindness: the inability to realistically envision one's self in an entirely new environment, or, to use the old cliche, "in someone else's shoes." I suffered from it for a number of years after I lost my master, and, I believe, was fairly insufferable before I lost him, due to my inability to see other submissives' choices as just as valid, good, and right as my own. I think a lot of posters to this thread are responding to this "what if" scenario with the idea of of what the ideal dominant (aka their partners) is entrenched in their minds. Of course they wouldn't settle for anything less, for one choice or the other. They don't have to. Some even refuse to consider the possibility that these could realisitcally be their choices. And I imagine the thinking goes something along the lines of, "Look at what I have now. Certainly I deserve all that if not more the next time around?" Or that's how I imagine the thinking goes...as it's certainly what I felt.


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RE: choices - 1/13/2010 5:19:32 AM   
LillyoftheVally


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quote:

ORIGINAL: osf

some of the subs in here , it's all about them



quote:


my thing is it's actually about the relationship


Thing is there are two people in the relationship it isn't just about the sub and neither is it just about the dominant.

quote:


in this case it was a choice between the stronger/demanding or the less demanding/more agreeable person


Was it?

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RE: choices - 1/13/2010 7:01:53 AM   
osf


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also i think there is this way to look at it, what if they had met another man than the one they did would he be lacking in their eye to the hypothetical man they did meet

it's always the best of all possible worlds, because it is the world that is and for no other reason


paraphrasing , it was the best of times, it was the worst of times

_____________________________

all around nice guy and creative misogynist

i'm not very skilled so i just hit harder

i want a woman to make into the woman she never wanted to become

(in reply to CaringandReal)
Profile   Post #: 87
RE: choices - 1/13/2010 8:12:00 AM   
NuevaVida


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quote:

ORIGINAL: osf

well i guess starving is an option






Are you equating NOT being in a relationship to starving?  Because I don't, by any means.




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RE: choices - 1/13/2010 8:34:16 AM   
osf


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

quote:

ORIGINAL: osf

well i guess starving is an option






Are you equating NOT being in a relationship to starving?  Because I don't, by any means.





your taking it out of context

there were two choices to enter the convo, one of those choices had to be made, if you didn't want to make a choice then you didn't have a dog in this fight



_____________________________

all around nice guy and creative misogynist

i'm not very skilled so i just hit harder

i want a woman to make into the woman she never wanted to become

(in reply to NuevaVida)
Profile   Post #: 89
RE: choices - 1/13/2010 8:46:42 AM   
QuirkyAnne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

quote:

ORIGINAL: osf

some of the subs in here , it's all about them
it 's all about waiting for a relationship that is RIGHT for them, and that is as it should be.



Well said.

Anne

(in reply to sirsholly)
Profile   Post #: 90
RE: choices - 1/13/2010 9:16:49 AM   
ranja


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quote:

ORIGINAL: osf

also i think there is this way to look at it, what if they had met another man than the one they did would he be lacking in their eye to the hypothetical man they did meet

it's always the best of all possible worlds, because it is the world that is and for no other reason


paraphrasing , it was the best of times, it was the worst of times


The other man i might have met would also have had to be forceful of character in the same way regarding wanting me...
see when i am single i am available and that is exactly it... i am not really choosing anybody, i am simply available and i play whilst waiting until a man choses me... men who are not forceful will not try to claim me, so i might have a nice time with them, but i won't be theirs

and i have never met a perfect man... i do not think any exist... my Husband has all sorts of imperfections aswell... for one thing He leaks an awful lot of gas...
it must be the beans

(in reply to osf)
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RE: choices - 1/13/2010 9:43:58 AM   
KnightofMists


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quote:

ORIGINAL: osf

it was only a question to provoke thought of which direction you leaned, to say neither is in fact to cop out and make no decision



It was a decision.... and maybe someone with alittle more on the ball would realized that these individuals will not settle for not having both of those two items... but maybe there is other things they would of scarificed. But... you will never know because you not interested in what choices they made for their relationship... you are only interested in the two choices you presented to support some illusionary premise.


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RE: choices - 1/13/2010 9:45:13 AM   
KnightofMists


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quote:

ORIGINAL: osf


your taking it out of context

there were two choices to enter the convo, one of those choices had to be made, if you didn't want to make a choice then you didn't have a dog in this fight





sure they do... but the don't have to fight to your rules.!

_____________________________

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An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to osf)
Profile   Post #: 93
RE: choices - 1/13/2010 10:29:50 AM   
osf


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quote:

sure they do... but the don't have to fight to your rules.!


this is an analogy

just so every body knows

when someone comes to your house can they make their own rules?

well i think the thread subject should be treated somewhat like that, don't you?


_____________________________

all around nice guy and creative misogynist

i'm not very skilled so i just hit harder

i want a woman to make into the woman she never wanted to become

(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 94
RE: choices - 1/13/2010 11:20:34 AM   
KnightofMists


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quote:

ORIGINAL: osf

well i think the thread subject should be treated somewhat like that, don't you?



NO... topics of conversation do have a starting point.. and like relationships they will evolve from there. I would say the very best discussions like relationships evolve positively well beyond the starting point!

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Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to osf)
Profile   Post #: 95
RE: choices - 1/13/2010 11:25:22 AM   
LaTigresse


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quote:

ORIGINAL: osf

quote:

sure they do... but the don't have to fight to your rules.!


this is an analogy

just so every body knows

when someone comes to your house can they make their own rules?

well i think the thread subject should be treated somewhat like that, don't you?



No.


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Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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RE: choices - 1/13/2010 11:34:43 AM   
LillyoftheVally


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists


quote:

ORIGINAL: osf

well i think the thread subject should be treated somewhat like that, don't you?



NO... topics of conversation do have a starting point.. and like relationships they will evolve from there. I would say the very best discussions like relationships evolve positively well beyond the starting point!


That is a really good point, and very pertinent. The two choices at the start are ones that will never really be made, not in the way you presented them, not coolly and calmly and from distance the two choices represent people not ideas. It is easy to stand detached and say i would do that or I would do this, and that is what makes it an impossible question easy to dismiss.

In real life we have to balance a lot of different things, a lot of the initial moments involve chemistry, and intangibility. I know that after a while we have to ask ourself the difficult questions but initially we don't , we can and I know I certainly do get carried along.

_____________________________

'My doctor says that I have a malformed public-duty gland and a natural deficiency in moral fibre, and that I am therefore excused from saving Universes.'

Nah I am not happy to see you either

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Profile   Post #: 97
RE: choices - 1/13/2010 11:51:42 AM   
osf


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyoftheVally


quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists


quote:

ORIGINAL: osf

well i think the thread subject should be treated somewhat like that, don't you?



NO... topics of conversation do have a starting point.. and like relationships they will evolve from there. I would say the very best discussions like relationships evolve positively well beyond the starting point!


That is a really good point, and very pertinent. The two choices at the start are ones that will never really be made, not in the way you presented them, not coolly and calmly and from distance the two choices represent people not ideas. It is easy to stand detached and say i would do that or I would do this, and that is what makes it an impossible question easy to dismiss.

In real life we have to balance a lot of different things, a lot of the initial moments involve chemistry, and intangibility. I know that after a while we have to ask ourself the difficult questions but initially we don't , we can and I know I certainly do get carried along.


the intent wasn't to simulate real life but to question core beliefs

to examine basic assumptions


when i question something in my mind i strip it down to a bare minimum and then build it back up maybe in a different way to get a different perspective, to examine validities, in other words i think about what i think about

stole that from Spencer Tracy





_____________________________

all around nice guy and creative misogynist

i'm not very skilled so i just hit harder

i want a woman to make into the woman she never wanted to become

(in reply to LillyoftheVally)
Profile   Post #: 98
RE: choices - 1/13/2010 12:00:18 PM   
LillyoftheVally


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quote:

ORIGINAL: osf
the intent wasn't to simulate real life but to question core beliefs

to examine basic assumptions


when i question something in my mind i strip it down to a bare minimum and then build it back up maybe in a different way to get a different perspective, to examine validities, in other words i think about what i think about

stole that from Spencer Tracy






Right, but once you put something out there it can and often does change, if you are having a conversation with someone you will find that it goes off in tangents its inevitable, if people are not interested in the initial idea but find that the idea sparks another idea that does interest them they will run with it.

Did you really think that pages of people saying the first or second one would help you examine basic assumptions? If so there is a place for polls at the bottom of the forum.

_____________________________

'My doctor says that I have a malformed public-duty gland and a natural deficiency in moral fibre, and that I am therefore excused from saving Universes.'

Nah I am not happy to see you either

(in reply to osf)
Profile   Post #: 99
RE: choices - 1/13/2010 12:08:14 PM   
CarrieO


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quote:

ORIGINAL: osf

when someone comes to your house can they make their own rules?

well i think the thread subject should be treated somewhat like that, don't you?



The thing is, CM is not your house.  You've started a discussion as a guest and as such, your rules don't apply.  The Forum Guidelines clearly state... "The primary intention of this board is to provide a forum for discussion and the exchange of ideas." A discussion is simply an exchanging of views on a given topic.  Yes, discussions can grow organically from the original topic but that's the beauty of sharing...learning new ideas and ways of thinking. 

Now back to the OP...

quote:


assuming you as a submissive had to make a choice between two dominants, one had the force of character you wanted but didn't like his kink, or one whose kink you were more comfortable with but were not as attracted to on a personal basis, what would be your choice?

this is an edit to make more clear what i meant, the first can create the structure you crave the second cant


The choice, as others have said, would be to continue looking for the one who had not only the character, personality and structure but also the similar kink interests.  I don't see this as black or white, a "must choose" between two unsuitables, the lesser of two evils...there are shades of gray and it's in the gray that common interests and respect can be found...in my opinion.

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(in reply to osf)
Profile   Post #: 100
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