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Feminization: Help, Advice & Support - 1/25/2010 12:50:16 PM

SylvereApLeanan

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From: Hell
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Some recent thought-provoking threads, including the one regarding the FAQ, have prompted me to try this. Please bear with me as this is something of an experiment. It may or may not succeed, but I think it will be an interesting endeavor.

The Ask A Mistress forum sees a lot of activity surrounding male cross-dressers and those who enjoy the idea of "forced" feminization. However, posts regarding this fetish frequently meet with mixed results with regard to their acceptance. I would like to dedicate this thread as a "safe zone" where anyone who enjoys feminization can come to learn how to be the best girly boi he can be, to offer tips and advice to other CDs, or to find herself a sissy maid.

If you aren't interested in this particular kink, that is your right and no one will ask you to accept someone who enjoys it into your life. All I ask is that, if you don't appreciate this kink, you simply respect the "safe zone" and please post your thoughts on this fetish in another place.

Let's see how it goes.

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Sylverë
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"There's something that doesn't make sense. Let's go and poke it with a stick."— The Doctor

RE: Feminization: Help, Advice & Support - 1/25/2010 12:58:37 PM

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I think it's a good idea so I'll chime in my support.

I dont do it with playmates well because I do it with someone else close to me. It's "our" thing and I save it for him. Our little fidelity.

My best tip is find a lady such as an actress or public figure who represents the type of woman you'd like to be and try emulating her mannerisms, voice, and speech patterns.

(in reply to SylvereApLeanan)

RE: Feminization: Help, Advice & Support - 1/25/2010 1:19:43 PM

SylvereApLeanan

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Ok, here's my positive contribution...

Before you run out and buy a lot of wigs and makeup, do some research so you can make the right choices. The last thing you want is to look like the bastard love child of Tammy Faye Baker and Bozo the Clown. Well, that is, if your goal is to be passable. If your kink is to be humiliated because you look like crap, then disregard everything below.

The first thing you'll need to do is find out your "color palette" -- the colors which are most flattering for your skin tone based on how much melanin and carotene you have. For example, if you have dark hair and olive skin, you'll probably need a "cool" palette, while a red-head with a peachy skin tone is a "warm" palette. Many makeup brands divide their products into "warm," "cool," and "neutral." Neutrals look good on almost anyone. Take a trip to the library and look up color analysis books such as Color Me Beautiful by Carole Jackson for help.

Once you've determined your palette, pick wigs and makup colors that work with your skin. I strongly suggest you invest in some high-quality foundation designed for heavy coverage that will help disguise your beard. The average bottle of Cover Girl or other brand you see advertised in fashion magazines is made to be sheer or very lightweight and won't look good on you. Ben Nye is a well-known company that produces stage makup for theater, television, and movies and is probably the best for your purposes. It's expensive, but it's worth the price. For blush, eyeliner, eyeshadow, and lipstick, you can use the less expensive brands you'll find at your local drug store. While you're at it, invest in some makeup sponges and brushes. They'll give you better coverage and a more put-together look than your fingers and the little sponge applicators that come with most cosmetics.

Once you've got your tools, go back to the library. Pick up books on applying stage makeup. These will teach you the basic techniques for applying makeup, as well as more advanced techniques like shading to help soften your jawline to appear more feminine. If you live in an area with a good community theater, I also suggest you start volunteering and learn as much as you can about applying stage makeup. You don't need to out yourself, but learning the skills will help you with your own transition when the time comes.

The first several times you "put your face on" will probably take an hour or more to get it just right. Practice these skills until you can apply your makeup from start to finish in 20 minutes or less. Once you have it down, you can experiment with different looks like the ones you find in fashion magazines. If you want to be able to pass as a woman, go for a muted, natural look. Only hookers and Tammy Faye spackle on eyeshadow and lipstick with a trowel. Play around and find the look you like best.

Hope this helps. Good luck.

_____________________________

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"There's something that doesn't make sense. Let's go and poke it with a stick."— The Doctor

(in reply to ourmsbetty)

RE: Feminization: Help, Advice & Support - 1/25/2010 1:22:48 PM

SolangeRichards

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My advice to those interested would be to place careful thought as to how you present yourself in your feminine role, as it will give others insight into your opinion of women in general. If you like women, as people, and if you feel an affinity with them it should be easy for you to strive to bring as positive a note to your portrayal as is possible for you. If you choose a cartoon persona based on the slip covers of trashy porno flicks that too speaks volumes....

You can act like a lady, or you can act like a streetwalker, the choice is yours and the choice you make will have direct bearing on how you are perceived and treated by others. It's up to you to decide what kind of woman you want to be....

(in reply to ourmsbetty)

RE: Feminization: Help, Advice & Support - 1/25/2010 1:56:17 PM

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Quick reply:

Well, I don't know how helpful it will be, but we started this as my way of combating Slave's frequent requests for my "fetish gear dress." I told him if he expected me to wear it, I expected him to wear it so that he knew how uncomfortable it was. Well, it turns out he enjoys the clothes so we continued it. We never really got into the make-up and wigs. I didn't really want a female looking back at me and as I enjoy his facial hair, I wasn't about to order it removed. Besides, I don't even wear foundation myself so I wouldn't put him in it. It is fun to watch his reactions when I rub his stocking covered legs or satin covered chest.

Lady

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RE: Feminization: Help, Advice & Support - 1/25/2010 3:59:22 PM

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I love this idea, thank you Miss Sylvere.

My advice is to embrace your authentic self - your girlie side, whatever that means to you. Integrate it not only into your fantasies, but into your real life, as a positive external expression of what you feel inside. Find a way to give your girl side time and space in your life, make it a positive aspect of who you are, not a hidden shame.

There is no shame in being an authentic being.

If you have pain or trauma around your female leanings, seek professional help, friends help, family help - just talk to someone who can help you sort through your baggage so you can be who you want to be without pain of past or present, or fear of the future.

If you are seeking a D/s relationship with a Lady, your female side is important. Disclose it up front, however it expresses itself in you, make it positive. Don't be offended if you encounter those who do not share your kinks. Realize that being girlie is only part of a well-rounded interesting person - work to be that person and not just a one-trick-pony focused solely on yourself and a need for the feminine. Realize that being girlie is only a part of a D/s relationship - lead with your authenticity, not your kinks. Don't use your desire/need for the female as a lever in relationships. The focus in a D/s relationship is on Her...meet Her needs, and She will be inspired to meet yours.

Remember that fantasy and reality are two very different things. Femdom and forced fem porn have almost nothing to do with real life situations where you are able to express a level of your feminine feelings. Don't treat females as fetish delivery devices.

It's silly, but there is a song that really sums up how I feel about being girlie. It is KT Tunstall's "Suddenly I See", and I reproduce the lyrics below. It is meant to be a female empowerment song, and it sure did speak to the female side of me:

Her face is a map of the world
Is a map of the world
You can see she's a beautiful girl
She's a beautiful girl
And everything around her is a silver pool of light
The people who surround her feel the benefit of it
It makes you calm
She holds you captivated in her palm

Suddenly I see (Suddenly I see)
This is what I wanna be
Suddenly I see (Suddenly I see)
Why the hell it means so much to me

I feel like walking the world
Like walking the world
You can hear she's a beautiful girl
She's a beautiful girl
She fills up every corner like she's born in black and white
Makes you feel warmer when you're trying to remember
What you heard
She likes to leave you hanging on her word

Suddenly I see (Suddenly I see)
This is what I wanna be
Suddenly I see (Suddenly I see)
Why the hell it means so much to me

And she's taller than most
And she's looking at me
I can see her eyes looking from a page in a magazine
Oh she makes me feel like I could be a tower
A big strong tower
She got the power to be
The power to give
The power to see

Suddenly I see (Suddenly I see)
This is what I wanna be
Suddenly I see (Suddenly I see)
Why the hell it means so much to me

< Message edited by OttersSwim -- 1/25/2010 4:16:06 PM >

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RE: Feminization: Help, Advice & Support - 1/25/2010 4:10:01 PM

BKSir

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My advice, at least in my opinion, please... not so much makeup! A lot of cd/tg/ts people I run across, frankly... they look like Tammy Faye Baker. And although she was pretty cool, I don't know of many that found her attractive. Be sensible about it. If you're having to buy more foundation, eyeshadow, rouge, blush and mascara every week because you ran out, you're using wayyy too much.

Find colours and styles that work for/with your skin tone, eye colour, hair colour, size and shape. A male with a 44" waist probably should not try to squeeze into a womens size 6, neon green thong. Some nice, ruffle-back, black or purple, or maybe dark red undies though, that might work well.

Confidence. You are you, and if that's part of who you are, go with it. Don't let someone tell you that it's wrong. It may be wrong for them, but, it's not wrong for you obviously. Be you and be damned proud of it. Trust me, there's a LOT of people out there that love you for it.

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(in reply to OttersSwim)

RE: Feminization: Help, Advice & Support - 1/26/2010 7:31:10 AM

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It is nice to see a nice positive thread on this subject. I am pretty passable and I agree that less is usually better.

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RE: Feminization: Help, Advice & Support - 1/26/2010 9:52:58 AM

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This thread seems like a good place to share my recent experiments with cross dressing the houseboy. I think Solange's point about how one's vision of feminization reflects one's attitude towards women is very important. I would have no interest in dealing with a man who considers feminization humiliating. I offer that to men reading this as a practical pointer. I'm an open-minded liberal sort, who's never been drawn to feminizing men or sought out a man for this purpose, but I have recently explored this and find it interesting and enjoyable. Given the shortage of women who wake up in the morning and say "I'm gonna go out and make me a sissy-boy!," I thought I'd share my conversion from "disinterested" to "this is fun" with men who are or want to be feminized.

It began with his request for a uniform. Ok, it was an expression of interest in wearing a dress while he cleaned with the idea that it would help him maintain his submissive mindset. Setting aside the cultural implications for why this is so, I decided to go along with this. So I hit the thrift stores in search of a dress that would: (a) fit; (b) be functional for wearing while cleaning; and (c) not look silly. A note on the "silly" point. I realize that to some people that any man in any dress is going to look silly (and those people would be kind to steer clear of this thread). I don't really see it that way. When I say "not look silly," I mean something that is flattering to his form. And many of the clothing that our society deems "feminine" is actually aesthetically pleasing on a male build. I mean really, "masculine" clothing does very little to highlight how many guys are working with great legs and ass. From an aesthetic perspective, men benefit from the postural shift (ass out) and longer lines of high heels just as well as women do. So I ended up with a nice sporty black dress and a garter/hosiery combo. Didn't even attempt to deal with the shoes. I have size 9 feet myself, and am familiar with how a design that looks cute in size 5 tends to look increasingly ridiculous past size 9. That, and heels would undoubtedly decrease his effectiveness as a maid at this point. It takes time to develop the muscles that you need to avoid getting hobbled by heels. I was pleased with the outcome.

So he has his uniform. Recently, I decided to take him panty shopping. (I guess the word "panties" weirds some people out. Sorry. I think it's a fun word.) He has a bit of a juicy ass. So I selected some panties with a sheer base and a few tiers of ruffles. Navy blue, with a little pink ribbon at the top of the front panel. And some knee highs. Red ribbed cotton knee highs with a pink ruffle on the top. He looked absolutely adorable. Feminine in the sense of soft, physical assets presented in an appealing fashion, with the little details like the pink bow adding an extra girly touch. Of course, I'm very new to this and just sorting through these things, but to me the "feminine" aspect is that softness and an appearance that somewhat "shows the goods." Also, a "feminine" appearance frequently involves trading off functionality and comfort in order to better display one's figure. There's a degree of restrictiveness in there that is quite compatible with a submissive mindset. I'm not sure I care if a man can "pass." A woman can be feminine without having huge breasts and wearing a ton of makeup. I don't see why a man can't have a pleasant "feminine" presentation while still being identifiably male. And I kind of get a thrill out of doing the shopping and making it work.

I suppose I should add that I think there's all sorts of cultural mind-fuckery planted in our minds about gender norms and the concepts of "masculine" and "feminine" really are less menacing the more fluid they are. A woman required by society to present herself in public as soft and showing the goods suffers under the tyranny of the patriarchy. But at an individual level, choosing to display these aspects can still be good fun. Sorry. Not trying to jack this thread in a sociological direction, just trying to explain where my mind is at.

(in reply to diaperedbaby)

RE: Feminization: Help, Advice & Support - 1/28/2010 4:08:17 PM

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i have always been into womens lingerie from a very early age, even before puberty. i have been wearing, sneeking, sniffing panties my whole life. When i met my Domme, it was one of the first things She said She wanted of this one and that was to dress for Her. Well for 8 years now i wear what ever She wants me to wear, be it bras, panties, stockings gareterbelts, skirts, lingerie. i am not passable due to a mustache that my Lady likes,,in all the right places, lol. But the thrill of wearing anything sexy, silky is very exciting for both of U/us.

(in reply to Lucienne)

RE: Feminization: Help, Advice & Support - 1/28/2010 9:17:46 PM

AcademyForSlaves

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Hi.

I like feminizing subs who like training but I've met some that have an idea of what they like to dress in and do in a feminization session and those can be fun too. One of the subs I feminize likes to be my secretary so I have that sub dress in sexy office clothes when doing the office work. It's really fun doing office roleplay.

I guess one tip would be to respect women when crossdressing and trying feminization. And try doing some new techniques the Mistress suggests so you can experiment with new ideas. This is why training is great.

Hope this helps.

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(in reply to nwindmalesub)

RE: Feminization: Help, Advice & Support - 1/30/2010 4:47:52 PM

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I dabbled a little in cross-dressing with one of my boyfriends before I got into BDSM. He stuck one of my hair scrunchies in his hair and started goofing around. On a whim, I had him wear some of my clothes, then we started messing around in other ways. It's never really been a major part of my relationships, but I've dated a couple of cross-dressers (who had done so before I got involved with them) since, and have helped a few of my gay friends who like to go in drag.

Keeping it relatively understated is good, if you're actually trying to be passable. The first couple of times, I'd suggest something like jeans (maybe with some feminine embroidery), a cute top with relatively small falsies, neutral makeup, and cute flats or very low heels. Of course, in privacy, you can go as over-the-top as your partner is willing to let you.

(in reply to AcademyForSlaves)

RE: Feminization: Help, Advice & Support - 1/30/2010 6:27:56 PM

SolangeRichards

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Understatement is never a bad idea whether it be in terms of feminization or whatever..

I'm as guilty as anyone in terms of loving fantasy stuff like stripper heels and tight skirts, but kicking back in leggings and flip-flops is a big part of my life too.

That stuff ain't built for speed, but it is built for comfort and that's a nice place to be all by itself....

(in reply to Andalusite)

RE: Feminization: Help, Advice & Support - 1/30/2010 8:44:03 PM

Domin8tingUrDrmz

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While cross-dressing isn't my thing; I do have a friend who likes to get a bit girly. He's a dear friend of mine and I help him with make up on occassion. He's relatively petite to begin with and doesn't have much in the way of facial hair. While he isn't quite passable he does enjoy the femininity and isn't into the humiliation. I think what turns me off most is the approach by some who find it humiliating to be female. I enjoy being a woman, very much so, and when one tells me its humiliating to them to become female, it just hurts my feminine pride. I don't think I'll every fully appreciate it the way some people do, but I'm not opposed to those who genuinely enjoy being feminine.

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RE: Feminization: Help, Advice & Support - 1/31/2010 2:30:57 PM

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Alright, my turn to chime in. It took me a while as I really wanted to make sure to make a worthwhile contribution.

When I was 19, one of my best mates was a bisexual cross dresser. We would get decked out and go clubbing together... oh what fun! S/he would get hit on more than me. Absolutely gorgeous! I'm so happy that he's coming to visit me in June after about 15 years of not seeing each other. I don't think he does cross dressing so much anymore, but everything I learned about it I learned from him back then. He actually taught *me* how to porperly put on make-up! (He was a professional make up artist)

Having spent the better part of my 20s in gay clubs and with drag queens, I've seen everything from the flamboyant cross dressing to integrating subtlely. I have to say that while the former is definitely more glamourous, the second I find more appealing. Some men make beautiful women, others not so much.

In my 30s, I actually had 2 girl friends in relationships with TGs. I've been to clubs and parties and I've been known to have little crushes too, though kissing up a US Marine all decked out as a girl in San Francisco is the closest I ever got. Man I wanted to see him in his Marine Uniform! ;-)

I also spent a great deal of my undergrad writing papers, referencing Butler, Turkle, Sedwick et al. on how our society has a polarized view of gender. I find that unfortunate. I think our society isn't very open to letting people bending gender boundaries, as much on the outside as from the inside.

Now having explored this in the past, I realise what turns me on and what doesn't. I can actually say that I've defined my kink based on having experimented.

I actually get off on making a really manly man wear my panties under a suit. Sometimes I'll write "whore" with red lipstick on his stomach and remind him that if he perspires, it will show. Mind fuck! I've put little pink bows and barrettes in the hair of men as punishment, making them wear them all day.

I guess that is light feminization. Would I ever push it further? Good question. I think it would depend on the man. It also would depend on why he would want to be feminized. And most importantly, it would depend on how our dynamic was. Knowing myself however, I wouldn't be open to a relationship where he would be mostly feminized. It would be an occasional thing. If he needed it more often, I might not be the right woman for him.

- LA

< Message edited by LadyAngelika -- 1/31/2010 2:33:28 PM >

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RE: Feminization: Help, Advice & Support - 2/1/2010 7:40:57 PM

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Solange, it's funny you mention leggings. In that first experience with cross-dressing I mentioned, I had him wear blue capri-length leggings and a pink and blue t-shirt with a cartoon character. It was very lighthearted and fun.

Your photos are very elegant and sophisticated.

Back when I was looking, *one* submissive man contacted me about this in a positive, respectful way that drew my interest. He was primarily interested in occasionally incorporating it into play, and perhaps going en-femme to a public playparty, or (though he had trepidation about it) dancing or out to dinner in the Castro.

LA, I'm with you on it being more fun as an occasional treat than as a major part of the relationship. :)

(in reply to LadyAngelika)

RE: Feminization: Help, Advice & Support - 2/2/2010 5:22:25 AM

SolangeRichards

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Andalusite, you've touched on something that I feel is too often ignored when this topic of feminization is raised and that is the idea of making it, keeping it in fact, "lighthearted and fun".

Without singling out anyone for criticism, it seems all too often there are posts after posts here, and on other sites where it seems the individual CD/TV/TG/TS is just being crushed by the smothering weight of who they are, what it entails and what it all means....

Over and over on this site and others it's "men treat us like shit, women don't want us, society despises us, we can only look to our own kind, oh woe is me, oh woe is me...." Well, I'm not unmindful by any means of what the downside of it all can be, but I also know that it's up to each person to work for their own happiness. If you want to seek a lifetime of half empty glasses I will bet that's exactly what you will find.

For me, this has been a journey of discovery. I started out in a rigid box of what society determined I was to be and chose to handle it in a different fashion. I became more than what I was. I did not forget the lessons learned in that rigid box. I took those with me into the feminine world I believed held the answers for me.

On the Unintentional Sexism thread, lusciouslips19 made a terrific post,

"I think in some ways it [feminization] may be quite freeing. Expression is limited for males in both emotion and creativity through dress. So I imagine being able to "play" with all thats feminine could be quite liberating to a man."

Actually, yes it is....

Over and above that, over and above all the serious questions of gender, over and above all the trouble and strife,

It's a heckuva lot of fun too!

(in reply to Andalusite)

RE: Feminization: Help, Advice & Support - 2/2/2010 6:15:15 AM

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Here's my two cents..

Nobody can feminize you. They can advise, suggest, increase your awareness of what feminine means, but femininity comes from within and is projected outwards. And until you start to project outwards your own femininity, nobody will be in a position to help or support you.

Achieving a passable feminine image takes time, it takes practice, it takes imagination, an open mind, it takes experimentation, and it takes a lot of observation of other people. Don't let anyone fool you, women can and do get it wrong, and it's no different for them, it's a process too. The only difference is that they have a head start because they were brought up as girls and then women.

Being passable has got much less to do with how you look and what you wear, and much more to do with how you feel about yourself and what you project outwards to other people. Once you understand this nobody can humiliate you, and those that try are only in reality showing just how narrow-minded and ignorant they really are. Don't let them deter you or cause you to be anyone other than yourself.

If you have any doubts as to this take a look around you at women. Do all women pass as women? Or can you look at some and mistake them for unconvincing transvestites? Same too if you look at men, are all men passable in their gender role?

The chances are the ones that do have a strong sense of self and identity, they are happy and confident with who they are, and they are able to express this through what they wear, how they look and how they project themselves to other people.

That projection is most important. It isn't how you look which draws people's attention to you, but how you behave and the emotional signals you give off. If you are not comfortable with who you are or how you look change it, because if you don't people will notice immediately and will respond accordingly.

Don't worry about other people, just focus on you, your own femininity and being yourself. Let other people work it out for themselves where you fit in the gender spectrum.

I mean let's face it, men and women have enough problems with each other and their genders without complicating the issue by throwing in the transgendered aspect.

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(in reply to SylvereApLeanan)

RE: Feminization: Help, Advice & Support - 10/15/2010 7:54:02 AM

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I am a CD and several posts in this section refer to humiliation and dressing trashy as somehow reflecting on the attitude a CD has on women. I am guilty of liking both but it in no way reflects on my opinion of women in general. Perhaps I think differently than most but to form an opinion on a class of individuals based on only a few members of the class is essentially the definition of prejudice. Whether it be a man or a woman, I prefer to get to know an individual before forming an opinion of that particular individual.

To be quite honest, I am not sure why I have the kinks that I do except that they are definite turn ons for me. One thing I do know though is that it has absolutely no reflection on the way I think of any individual and certainly on any class of individuals.

(in reply to LadyAngelika)

RE: Feminization: Help, Advice & Support - 10/15/2010 8:01:30 AM

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Creating this forum was a great idea. Thanks.

(in reply to ourmsbetty)

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