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RE: What if?!?!? - 2/25/2010 9:07:12 AM   
lovingpet


Posts: 4270
Joined: 6/19/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

It's actually a bit simpler than just the 'trust threshold' issue for me. I have had discussions of the directions(s) I intend to go with me slave. If I request of her to do something, it is to be expected that my consistency in action/word reflects this...upon which I do expect her to do it.

Were I to ask her to jump off a cliff, the immediate thing I would expect her to assess is the fact that such a request would be the completely contrary to the direction(s) that I have repeatedly told her we're going in. At that point, I would expect her to rush me to the hospital for fear that there is something seriously wrong with my brain that is causing me to be someone very different than who I am.

Certainly there is a lot of gray area on that spectrum, but none that are not easily dealt with by my explaining the request in detail and showing how it is conducive to the end we're moving towards (which, again, would be an indication of my doing something consistent to what I had made clear she could expect).



To me, what you are describing here is more the process by which that trust is acquired.  It is a dominant's consistency and ability to lay out the path before the submissive that establishes if there is a foundation for the relationship and if it is one on which the submissive wishes to build.  It is my partner's history of consistent vision, action, and thought that has built my trust.  It is isn't baseless and in existence simply because I am submissive to him.  He laid the groundwork.  I know if he deviates from that, then I have questions.  He will either show me that we are still going where I thought we were heading, that he has changed directions and way which allows me to evaluate whether I can go there with him, or that he has quite clearly lost his marbles and is in need of the rubber room and special coat.

lovingpet

_____________________________

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RE: What if?!?!? - 2/25/2010 9:11:57 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
LaT, it was a very good original.  These are thoughts very similar to some things I've said over the last couple of days that are buried in the very threads that I think your idea might have sprung from.

I honestly don't want instant trust or complete submission from anyone at the very start.  Yes, there's that beginning point where you first get to know one another that you get the surface stuff.  Now, don't get Me wrong, because mixed with new relationship energy that new beginning stuff is great.  It's wonderful and exciting and fabulous, but you're really just starting out.  It's only planting the seed.  There's been no time for the intimacy to grow.  The deeper connection with another human being only comes after an investment.  It's a goal for the people connected to strive for.

The thing is, I guess I'm not like some Dominants out there.  I don't want the things on the deeper level handed to Me on a silver platter.  I want to earn them.  I want to earn the trust that allows someone to go with Me to places that they weren't ever able to go before.  I want a real dynamic that can only be built with time.  I want My submissive to give Me those things that he wouldn't especially give to someone he just started out with.  I want there to be something between us that can't exist at the beginning level.

One by one, I've received those things.  Not because he'd give them to anyone, but because he specifically gave them to Me.  Sure, I've done the very same activities with other people that were on clip's hard limit list when I first met him.  Looking back now, it kind of paled in comparison.  It was sweeter because I had to wait.  Those are the scenes, where the intimacy becomes a real entity all on it's own that I can't even articulate My thoughts.

Just this past weekend, clip and I climbed mountains that we wouldn't have been able to when we first met.  If it were three years ago, he'd have stood at the base and honestly believed that he would never reach the summit.  We did it together.  It was all the more beautiful because it wasn't easy.  Because he would have only dreamed of going there with Me leading the way.


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RE: What if?!?!? - 2/25/2010 9:18:03 AM   
NihilusZero


Posts: 4036
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From: Nashville, TN
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quote:

ORIGINAL: lovingpet

To me, what you are describing here is more the process by which that trust is acquired.

Interesting. I actually see it as the reverse. The trust really only comes in to play when judging whether or not a person lies and/or behaves without integrity. In order to get to a point where you are obeying smoothly, that step would have had to be taken. What I described only really works if trust has been established that I live/act with consistency to my words.

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovingpet

It is a dominant's consistency and ability to lay out the path before the submissive that establishes if there is a foundation for the relationship and if it is one on which the submissive wishes to build.  It is my partner's history of consistent vision, action, and thought that has built my trust.

We're talking about a slightly different thing here. I think you're speaking of the process whereby the D-type takes actions and makes decisions that engender the s-type's trust as the relationship is developing, but these are not really instances of consistency (because no precedent is really set at this stage of the relationship). What is being 'tested' by these actions is if the natural habits of the D-type happen to be compatible to what the s-type can admire or find fulfilling enough to motivate further yielding.

I'm actually speaking of a point where I have said what is to be expected (after an initial 'trust' has been developed to where she understands she can take my words honestly, without suspicion of deception) and then having my subsequent actions fall in line with what I've let her know to expect from me.

< Message edited by NihilusZero -- 2/25/2010 9:32:12 AM >


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RE: What if?!?!? - 2/25/2010 9:30:23 AM   
HisSweetElysium


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:) thank you crazyml, yes we are very blessed. Our dynamic isn't for everyone, but definitely works for us.

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RE: What if?!?!? - 2/25/2010 9:38:28 AM   
Rochsub2009


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quote:

ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious

So the reason an s-type can say that they have no limits is that they can say with certainty that their D/M-type is not going to endanger them...

I hadn't thought about it like that before. Maybe I've been unnecessarily dismissive of the whole 'no limits' idea.



i agree with your comment and LaTigresse's original post.  However, there is one thing that she forgot to factor into her message.

She wrote it from her perspective (which is a sane perspective).  Unfortunately, i have run into some "Dommes" who were not always safe or sane in their play.  Therefore, the things that they tried to get me to do became "non-consensual", and i was out of there.

i really don't have a lot of limits, but i always retain responsibility for my own safety.  i NEVER trust someone so much that i relinquish that.  Even a barn animal understands that self-preservation is priority #1.

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RE: What if?!?!? - 2/25/2010 10:33:09 AM   
LaTigresse


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I absolutely did factor it in.

MY barn animal......would not trust me if I handled him in an insane fashion. Therefor he would not do what I ask him to do as well as he does. He certainly would not do it with the joy he shows. Perhaps with fear, simply because he is a barn animal. But most humans, just as you have expressed, would be out of there.

Many barn animals are not so fortunate.


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RE: What if?!?!? - 2/25/2010 10:36:38 AM   
LaTigresse


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Joined: 1/15/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

LaT, it was a very good original.  These are thoughts very similar to some things I've said over the last couple of days that are buried in the very threads that I think your idea might have sprung from.

I honestly don't want instant trust or complete submission from anyone at the very start.  Yes, there's that beginning point where you first get to know one another that you get the surface stuff.  Now, don't get Me wrong, because mixed with new relationship energy that new beginning stuff is great.  It's wonderful and exciting and fabulous, but you're really just starting out.  It's only planting the seed.  There's been no time for the intimacy to grow.  The deeper connection with another human being only comes after an investment.  It's a goal for the people connected to strive for.

The thing is, I guess I'm not like some Dominants out there.  I don't want the things on the deeper level handed to Me on a silver platter.  I want to earn them.  I want to earn the trust that allows someone to go with Me to places that they weren't ever able to go before.  I want a real dynamic that can only be built with time.  I want My submissive to give Me those things that he wouldn't especially give to someone he just started out with.  I want there to be something between us that can't exist at the beginning level.

One by one, I've received those things.  Not because he'd give them to anyone, but because he specifically gave them to Me.  Sure, I've done the very same activities with other people that were on clip's hard limit list when I first met him.  Looking back now, it kind of paled in comparison.  It was sweeter because I had to wait.  Those are the scenes, where the intimacy becomes a real entity all on it's own that I can't even articulate My thoughts.

Just this past weekend, clip and I climbed mountains that we wouldn't have been able to when we first met.  If it were three years ago, he'd have stood at the base and honestly believed that he would never reach the summit.  We did it together.  It was all the more beautiful because it wasn't easy.  Because he would have only dreamed of going there with Me leading the way.



LadyPact I adore your post. Especially the sentiments I bolded. I do not understand why anyone would want anything different.......but that is just how I feel. It is why I have no interest in casual play because the dynamic described is all I want. THAT is what turns ME on. Knowing I have earned that trust and that we can go there because of it.


_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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RE: What if?!?!? - 2/25/2010 10:44:07 AM   
lovingpet


Posts: 4270
Joined: 6/19/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovingpet

To me, what you are describing here is more the process by which that trust is acquired.

Interesting. I actually see it as the reverse. The trust really only comes in to play when judging whether or not a person lies and/or behaves without integrity. In order to get to a point where you are obeying smoothly, that step would have had to be taken. What I described only really works if trust has been established that I live/act with consistency to my words.

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovingpet

It is a dominant's consistency and ability to lay out the path before the submissive that establishes if there is a foundation for the relationship and if it is one on which the submissive wishes to build.  It is my partner's history of consistent vision, action, and thought that has built my trust.

We're talking about a slightly different thing here. I think you're speaking of the process whereby the D-type takes actions and makes decisions that engender the s-type's trust as the relationship is developing, but these are not really instances of consistency (because no precedent is really set at this stage of the relationship). What is being 'tested' by these actions is if the natural habits of the D-type happen to be compatible to what the s-type can admire or find fulfilling enough to motivate further yielding.

I'm actually speaking of a point where I have said what is to be expected (after an initial 'trust' has been developed to where she understands she can take my words honestly, without suspicion of deception) and then having my subsequent actions fall in line with what I've let her know to expect from me.


I understand the difference you are highlighting and mostly agree.  I do think, however, it is possible to hit this process at multiple points in a relationship, especially if significant life changes occur for either party.  It is a little difficult to stay on the path of having a bigger family if I have hit menopause.  Sorry, it was the only example that came to mind LOL.  I may know what to expect now, but when things go all wonky in life, I may not be so sure all the same rule of engagement, so to speak, still apply.  I will need reassurance that we are still headed the same way and that you are unchanged.  If we are not or you are not, then I need to know where things stand.  Then and only then can I decide that I need to commit you to the a mental institution or the sunshine home. 

lovingpet

_____________________________

If you put your head into more, you'd have to put your back into less. ~Me

10 Fluffy pts.


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RE: What if?!?!? - 2/25/2010 10:44:09 AM   
HisSub1213


Posts: 219
Joined: 11/3/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

Thank you and yes.........that is the core of my point.

The horse/slave will do whatever I ask BECAUSE of the relationship we have built.



I think for most people, most being those who actually DO know their asses from their elbows, this sums it up perfectly. Having been around horses all my life I loved the analogy, as it really can be applied to all kinds of things in life when it comes to relationships of any kind.

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Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity is not thus handicapped. (Elbert Hubbard)

Fear is the mother of morality. (Friedrich Nietzsche)

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RE: What if?!?!? - 2/25/2010 10:50:09 AM   
lovingpet


Posts: 4270
Joined: 6/19/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

LaT, it was a very good original.  These are thoughts very similar to some things I've said over the last couple of days that are buried in the very threads that I think your idea might have sprung from.

I honestly don't want instant trust or complete submission from anyone at the very start.  Yes, there's that beginning point where you first get to know one another that you get the surface stuff.  Now, don't get Me wrong, because mixed with new relationship energy that new beginning stuff is great.  It's wonderful and exciting and fabulous, but you're really just starting out.  It's only planting the seed.  There's been no time for the intimacy to grow.  The deeper connection with another human being only comes after an investment.  It's a goal for the people connected to strive for.

The thing is, I guess I'm not like some Dominants out there.  I don't want the things on the deeper level handed to Me on a silver platter.  I want to earn them.  I want to earn the trust that allows someone to go with Me to places that they weren't ever able to go before.  I want a real dynamic that can only be built with time.  I want My submissive to give Me those things that he wouldn't especially give to someone he just started out with.  I want there to be something between us that can't exist at the beginning level.

One by one, I've received those things.  Not because he'd give them to anyone, but because he specifically gave them to Me.  Sure, I've done the very same activities with other people that were on clip's hard limit list when I first met him.  Looking back now, it kind of paled in comparison.  It was sweeter because I had to wait.  Those are the scenes, where the intimacy becomes a real entity all on it's own that I can't even articulate My thoughts.

Just this past weekend, clip and I climbed mountains that we wouldn't have been able to when we first met.  If it were three years ago, he'd have stood at the base and honestly believed that he would never reach the summit.  We did it together.  It was all the more beautiful because it wasn't easy.  Because he would have only dreamed of going there with Me leading the way.



LadyPact I adore your post. Especially the sentiments I bolded. I do not understand why anyone would want anything different.......but that is just how I feel. It is why I have no interest in casual play because the dynamic described is all I want. THAT is what turns ME on. Knowing I have earned that trust and that we can go there because of it.



Yes, yes, yes, yes to you both!

I don't believe in being some hard ass and having this "I'm gonna make you earn it" attitude toward trust and getting to have your way with me, but I don't have the capacity to just jump off the proverbial cliff either.  Trust truly is earned and it doesn't really hit just how true that is until you are able to look back on a history of a relationship and see how far it's come.  I have said before that what is deep trust today is superficial trust tomorrow.  I have hit that spot over and over again not just with my partner but with others in my life as well.  I need and always hope to build a positive history that allows us to go just a little bit higher in the future.

lovingpet

_____________________________

If you put your head into more, you'd have to put your back into less. ~Me

10 Fluffy pts.


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Profile   Post #: 30
RE: What if?!?!? - 2/25/2010 11:16:31 AM   
heartcream


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From: Psychoalphadiscobetabioaquadoloop
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Great Post Lady Tiger. Have you considered writing a book? I felt like I was right there with you and your skittish horse. Thank you.

It reminds me of when I first got my now deceased dog. I didnt know squat about being with a dog, training her or any of that and I was pretty anxious about it all. My dog was born in Harlem. Her mom was very sick when she was born, one of ten pups. The puppies were immediately abandoned, no mom time at all. A woman heard about the puppies and came to 'rescue' them, which in fact she did but she did not really have the facilities to do it. My baby girl was outside in the winter, just boen with all sort of abandoned dogs, including the infamous pits and rots. I adopted her off the street when she was three months old, having lived those months outside in the winter trying to stay alive and not get stomped on.

When I got her she was already so old, so drawn, dirty and the most skittish dog in the world. I protected her not the other way around, she was afraid of everything and everyone.

I took stacks of books out of the library to learn what the feck to do.

I had so many books with things across the boards as to what to do. My bitty dog could not control her bladder and drove me round the bend with her constant weeing all over the place, I thought I would go mad.

One book said to whack her nose with a newspaper and I tried it. She ran and hid in the closet, shivering and shaking.

I went to her and knew I had done the wrong thing. I promised her then I would never do anything to scare her ever again.

I dealt with it and by the time she was 6 years old she was an entirely different dog. She chillaxed, she was always more skittish than your average bear, she never lost her fear of big dogs, even though she was 45 lbs. The sun shone in my heart when she allowed herself to close her eyes outside feeling safe enough to finally let go like that.

I think this is the thing, she trusted me I would never hurt her or lead her astray. When we moved to Canada and she got face blasted by a skunk we learned fast how to avoid them and if I told her, Be careful! No, no, no! She trusted me to know I would only say that if I was protecting her and she would stop in her tracks while the silly skunk would waddle by.

Her trust for me was one of my most prized possessions. I deserved it, I was consistent, always kind to her, protective and took the best care of her I could. She chilled because she finally felt she could.

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RE: What if?!?!? - 2/25/2010 11:46:39 AM   
Whiplashsmile4


Posts: 2298
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quote:

ORIGINAL: allthatjaz

Great way of getting a good point over LaT!
Being a horse woman myself I can fully understand the wonders of that trustful dynamic that man can have with beast and it relates well to what your talking about here.
I suppose this comes up from people saying they have no limits? To me, no limits in an established relationship means trust is in place and intuition is working. It means they can read one another and know how far to go and where not to go.
What it doesn't mean is the sub is prepared to jump off a cliff or go out and murder someone on his behalf. Its a kind of common sense thing.
I have to admit that when I first came on the scene I was a little baffled by the 'no limits' thing but I didn't understand how it all worked back then and had not at that point had an established relationship with anyone.

You will only have no limits whilst you have trust. Once the trust has gone because he's asked you to jump off a cliff, then limits and mistrust will form and with that a hasty exit out of the relationship!

Edited to add. There was an article in the papers a few years back now about a little girl and her grade A show jumper. This little girl and her beloved pony won trophy after trophy in the show jumping ring. One day the pony had what looked like a cataract and so the vet was called. The vet discovered the pony was totally blind and probably had been for some time.
The little girl had used body signals and the word 'hup' just before each jump and the pony had trusted her enough to jump blind. I thought that was a lovely story about trust.


Love the opening post and Love this post. A few other ones as well. I really don't have much to add or comment upon.

< Message edited by Whiplashsmile4 -- 2/25/2010 11:55:17 AM >


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RE: What if?!?!? - 2/25/2010 1:39:46 PM   
Missokyst


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I don't know... It may be too sane and reasonable for this place. Not test the limits you can go to prove someone else is in control? Ludicrous! How else will those piddlyant people feel they are in charge? Why, the idea of connecting with people who view things sensibly may be beyond the scope of people who are just trying to get started.

One might think that this stuff we do involves actual human emotion and reason.. go figure.

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Profile   Post #: 33
RE: What if?!?!? - 2/25/2010 2:30:02 PM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

LaT, it was a very good original.  These are thoughts very similar to some things I've said over the last couple of days that are buried in the very threads that I think your idea might have sprung from.

I honestly don't want instant trust or complete submission from anyone at the very start.  Yes, there's that beginning point where you first get to know one another that you get the surface stuff.  Now, don't get Me wrong, because mixed with new relationship energy that new beginning stuff is great.  It's wonderful and exciting and fabulous, but you're really just starting out.  It's only planting the seed.  There's been no time for the intimacy to grow.  The deeper connection with another human being only comes after an investment.  It's a goal for the people connected to strive for.

The thing is, I guess I'm not like some Dominants out there.  I don't want the things on the deeper level handed to Me on a silver platter.  I want to earn them.  I want to earn the trust that allows someone to go with Me to places that they weren't ever able to go before.  I want a real dynamic that can only be built with time.  I want My submissive to give Me those things that he wouldn't especially give to someone he just started out with.  I want there to be something between us that can't exist at the beginning level.

One by one, I've received those things.  Not because he'd give them to anyone, but because he specifically gave them to Me.  Sure, I've done the very same activities with other people that were on clip's hard limit list when I first met him.  Looking back now, it kind of paled in comparison.  It was sweeter because I had to wait.  Those are the scenes, where the intimacy becomes a real entity all on it's own that I can't even articulate My thoughts.


Just this past weekend, clip and I climbed mountains that we wouldn't have been able to when we first met.  If it were three years ago, he'd have stood at the base and honestly believed that he would never reach the summit.  We did it together.  It was all the more beautiful because it wasn't easy.  Because he would have only dreamed of going there with Me leading the way.

The part I have made bold above...I know that there are a lot of people, dominant and submissive both, who disagree with my idea that any dominant/submissive who is looking for a long term relationship should consider sitting down and doing some analyzing.  They should ask themselves some questions and answer them, and then make a list:  what things do I do with a casual play partner at the club?  what things, both D/s and BDSM,  do I do with a casual play partner on a weekend?  what things that I WON'T do with a casual partner come into consideration as the relationship progresses?  what signs do I look for that the relationship is being built from something casual into something long-term VS something that will forever remain casual even if it remains long-term?  Do I trust a casual partner, even one of 3 mos. standing or 6 mos standing or a year's standing with the same sort of intimate sharing of BDSM and D/s experiences that I would with a serious partner?

Or does all of this...intimacy tied to this act but not this one, trust associated with this act more than this one, heavier levels of dominance and submission associated with these rituals or that type of protocol or this behavior... make no difference to me and I just want to experience what I want to experience with whoever I am with?

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RE: What if?!?!? - 2/25/2010 3:44:34 PM   
whiteslavebitch


Posts: 479
Joined: 9/10/2007
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Thank you LaT, it's nice to see some sanity in these forums after so many of the postings you are talking about.

After almost 5 years with MasterK, I know he is not going to order me to do something stupid or dangerous. He has earned my complete trust, just like you with your horse.

_____________________________

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formally collared 1/30/09

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RE: What if?!?!? - 2/25/2010 3:51:49 PM   
Musicmystery


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Joined: 3/14/2005
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quote:

I do not ask my horse to do unnecessary and risky things just to prove I am his master. I certainly wouldn't do it with a human being I cared about, jeopardize such an important relationship for such a shallow act.


I agree.

Anyone who needs to "test" a slave/sub is really insecure about whether mastery exists.

And that means it doesn't.

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RE: What if?!?!? - 2/25/2010 5:11:41 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:

Were I to ask her to jump off a cliff, the immediate thing I would expect her to assess is the fact that such a request would be the completely contrary to the direction(s) that I have repeatedly told her we're going in. At that point, I would expect her to rush me to the hospital for fear that there is something seriously wrong with my brain that is causing me to be someone very different than who I am.


Brilliant! and the point i was trying to get across on the other thread!

If its so far out of the ordinary, what you ask of your sub/slave, why on earth would she obey and not inquire as to your state of mental health? more to the point ask...

are you nuts?!

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RE: What if?!?!? - 2/25/2010 5:47:34 PM   
stella41b


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From: SW London (UK)
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

Yes, we had an occasional rough spot. We once crossed a low spot in a field that looked perfectly fine, only to sink him chest deep in mud. It had a dry crust on top and looked like solid ground......but hid a danger I had not forseen. Fortunately I bailed quickly, he was able to get out, and neither of us were hurt. However, he did regress a bit and it took an hour the next day to convince him to walk through a ditch. He had lost his trust in me and I had to regain it. We worked it out and everything was fine. Since then we have gone through many ditches and ravines, a few creeks and rivers. Even mud holes....after I knew they were not going to swallow him.

That horse and I got to know one another. He knows that I will not ask him to do anything to hurt him so he does what I ask. I care about him and would NEVER ask him to do anything I thought for a moment would cause him hurt. I want to keep him around, I love the bugger. I want to know that I can trust him to do what I ask so I do not push him beyond our unspoken, but known and agreed upon, limits.



Fantastic OP (and my editing offer still stands BTW) but it's the above which stands out the most for me.

I think too many people get carried away with the fantasy, the roles, rituals, the power dynamics and the kinks so much that they forget or fail to realise that even more so than out there in wider society the basis of WIITWD and BDSM is people and human nature.

What gets you places here isn't the flogger techniques, rope techniques, reading the works of John Milton or knowing all the intricacies of both the M/s and D/s dynamic, but something far more basic - knowledge of yourself and who you really are, and knowledge of other people and an understanding of human nature.

This has been the subject of many a late night conversation with Prin, filed under of course 'getting to know a dominant'. Both of us have difficulties in finding relationships for different reasons through who we are, but this isn't the only explanation. I steadfastly refuse to 'get to know a dominant', but prefer to 'get to know a person', and I've even had it on my profile that I'm not prepared to consider anyone as a dominant who isn't prepared to share a committed friendship with me on equal footing first, or even go through the initial stages of a vanilla relationship.

Is this because I'm not really all that submissive? No it isn't. While I'm not really a scene person I know I can play hard and fast with the best of them, I've also more recently had casual play experience on the other side of the kneel and have discovered that I can get just as much buzz out of being a dominant - with the right person. But I've also met people who can do impressive things with floggers and canes and when you ask them to explain what they get out of it they kind of look sheepish and struggle to come up with words.

Sometimes I go through profiles or read messages sent to me and there's this kind of 'dispensability' which often goes through my mind that in the anticipated relationship if not me it could easily be someone else, because all this other person is looking for is someone to fulfill a role in their life. They're not looking for any sort of deep or meaningful relationship, they just want the role and the superficial stuff. This is when that question goes through my mind 'What's the point?'

Sure I can no doubt find someone to hook up with and go through the motions, but to me this isn't really submission, or domination, or whatever else people want to call it, it's going through the motions and at best play acting. It isn't going out of your way to please your dominant knowing full well that what you are doing is pleasing them, or giving them a buzz, and through knowing them and the relationship they have with whatever you're doing and understanding why you're doing it and why they enjoy it, and sharing that same buzz together but from different perspectives.

This is how I relate to submission (or dominance) it's got very little to do with what we are doing, the activities, the kinks, but far more to do with the relationship, the knowledge and understanding we have of each other, the trust we share, the emotional intimacy, the fact that we can be with that person at our weakest, most vulnerable, that we can share our innermost feelings and thoughts without needing to measure our words or fear rejection or judgment. And it is so because this is the basis of the relationship.

This is why I'm not really that much into safe words, BDSM checklists, hard limits, but more into communication, contact, time, personal integrity and emotional transparency. These to me are the keystones not only of any relationship, but also of any dynamic.

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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: What if?!?!? - 2/25/2010 7:44:10 PM   
ResidentSadist


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse
What if your dominant partner, master, mistress..........told you to jump off a cliff......would you do it?

Nice horse story. That trust you speak of and unspoken limits . . . who sets the limits, you or the horse? They train circus horses to jump through fire. That is pretty much an instinctual “hard limit” to jump through a wall of fire. So the horse’s trainer set the limits, not the horse. Obviously there must be trust . . . who in their right mind would pledge themselves as a slave to someone they didn’t trust? . . . and about that cliff, there is some real nice shoreline cliff diving on this planet . . . she better jump!




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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: What if?!?!? - 2/26/2010 5:02:13 AM   
Fitznicely


Posts: 1597
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When my girl gives me a "yeah but what if" type question, it's not so much about trust, as it is about her mind getting caught in a loop, playing and replaying a worst-case-scenario.

You have to accept it for what it is and deal with the irrational insecurities as best you can.

As for the recent spate of What If posts? Either they're looking for a specific answer in order to prove a point (in which case, who cares?), or they're looking to liven up a quiet hour in their own lives (in which case, who cares?). Can't be bothered with 'em either way.

Just my £0.02


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Profile   Post #: 40
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