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RE: Would you be monogamous with the all-in-one submiss... - 3/3/2010 9:27:26 AM   
AAkasha


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
I use that past tense because I've seen or heard of quite a few polyamorous situations more recently that seem sound, balanced and happy. I would, totally, still want the one-one-partnership D/s equivalent of my former vanilla relationships and I think I'd probably give up a lot of what I want, kink-wise, to get that. But, my mind's changed a lot over the last couple of years. I'm more open to other possibilities now.


I fear that some submissive men who deeply desire monogamy and a bdsm relationship might eventually settle for a poly situation because they have not found a Domme woman suited to them who will engage in monogamy with them.

It's not so much about settling but about dealing with the odds for them. I hear that in what sO2 was saying, I feel I hear it in Peon's post but I don't want to project too much. I know that off the boards, I've had men share this with me.

The thing is, that usually, not always, submissive men tend to worship one woman as their Lady. It is tricky, though not impossible, to be devoted to more than one. I would imagine that one would be favoured. I'm going to be a little contreversial here and pull something from the Qur’an: "You are never able to be fair and just between women even if it is your ardent desire…" and I think that if we flip this around, it and change women for men, it would be the same. I imagine that is why in most poly that I've observed, people clearly deliniate a primary over a secondary partner, to avoid such confusion and to manage expectations.

Anyhow, this is a thread about monogamy, not polygamy so I won't go any further on that topic.

- LA



Does non-monogamy mean intimacy (emotional and/or sexual)?  Does being monogamous mean you are unfaithful if you lust for another man but do not act on it? What about masturbation?  What about viewing pictures of other men in bondage and getting sexually aroused? What if you happen to know the man in the pictures? What if he took the pictures for you?  I think defining monogamy is important.

If you met a man that satisfied all your needs, would that eliminate your predatory lust - not for love, companionship or sexual release, but for the mere satisfaction of what it brings in and of yourself?

I guess the bigger question is whether or not you can do casual S&m and have it 1) not become sexual intercourse and 2) not require or create feelings of emotional connection.  I might be an oddly wired animal; I can do casual S&m and have the time of my life and never see the guy again, and also never have sex with him.  There are grey areas that I am constantly working through (like kissing - where does that fall, is it an act of dominance or an act of intimacy?).

If I take something like *hair pulling* -- which can be seen as totally harmless in a lot of cases - this is a very, very powerful act of dominance for me.  Everything from the look on a man's face to the feel of his hair between my fingers. If I was told I could NEVER pull ANY man's hair again I would have a hard time getting my head around that.  I like to pull hair.  It doesn't mean I want a boyfriend, or want to fuck the man I am doing this to.  My husband really doesn't care if I pull hair (to him, it's a trade off, because he likes to keep his hair so short I can't pull it, so he feels he's denying me).

If you go to BDSM parties and play, does that mean you are not monogamous?

Akasha


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(in reply to LadyAngelika)
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RE: Would you be monogamous with the all-in-one submiss... - 3/3/2010 9:56:50 AM   
GloriousMorning


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I have had poly relationships in the past, and always found different levels of satisfaction and dissatisfaction. It sure wasn't the easy road to travel. Generally, monogamous relationships are veiwed as less complex and easier to maintain, however it may require even more effort to keep things interesting. Also within poly relationships, generally things are kept well mapped out, and expectations are made fairly clear when it comes to relationships with the other people outside of the "primary" relationship (think, The Ethical Slut). With monogamy, how we relate to others outside the relationship is subject to perception, circumstance and morality.

When I met my last boyfriend I was just coming out of a few poly relationships, he was mono and he could not see himself being in a poly relationship, so I stopped seeing anyone else and we became exclusive to one another. To me, he was what I considered the "all in one submissive". He was my best friend, my lover, support, confidant, and we made other special places in each other's lives. I didn't feel I needed - or wanted, anyone but him, and would have happily had him as my one and only for a long time to come.

I have a fair amount of long standing connections within my community. I did have the opportunity to play with a few other people (non-sexually) while we were together, I was upfront about my intentions and even included him, but I don't consider this poly as these were friendship-based and I did not maintain more than one relationship at a time. We had a lot of ups and downs, and during one of the downs I began seeing another person with whom I'd had previous involvement and I was honest about it, but wound up ending it so I could be monogamous again with my partner. In the end of our relationship, it was him who wound up hurting me by beginning what seemed like a secondary relationship with some one without my knowledge (ironic, I know).

So where that leaves me now, if I had the opportunity again to be with some one who I felt they encompassed many of the aspects that I was looking for in a man, I would want to build a monogamous relationship with him, but I think for where I'm at now I would protect myself better emotionally. My boundaries and expectations when it comes to other people will be made extremely clear and will not be pushed without consequence to the relationship. At this present time, I'm not sure I fully "trust" monogamy, but I did not miss being poly and I honestly don't think I am interested in a polyamorous relationship again.

< Message edited by GloriousMorning -- 3/3/2010 10:00:09 AM >

(in reply to LadyAngelika)
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RE: Would you be monogamous with the all-in-one submiss... - 3/3/2010 10:02:39 AM   
seekingOwnertoo


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Lady Angelika .... Hmmm ... do You like ... read my mind? LOL

Because You really hit a home run with Your last post! In my mind ...

And, You are pretty close ... at least regarding sO2. <smiles>

There are tradeoffs ... the key question is ... which door to choose!

That has yet to be determined.

Regarding the Quran .. which name i do butcher (damned Yank ;-)

There is a great deal of truth in it. Although this is not the place for the debate ...

The passsage You quote (or close to quote) is similar to another ...

no man can serve two Masters

----

Oh and since i just saw AAKasha jump in here ... and have not had time to read it, yet, i am just going to post this.

But like bad news ... i'll be back! LOL

(in reply to LadyAngelika)
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RE: Would you be monogamous with the all-in-one submiss... - 3/3/2010 10:33:02 AM   
LadyAngelika


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Akasha, you are spot on with all your questions. It definitely not all black and white. That is where communication with partners come in.

I'll be honest with you, I'm not 100% convinced monogamy is the answer nor that I will be able to pull it off. As I said, I do deeply romantacize it.

If I had all the answers neatly tucked away in my mind, I would never start a thread on the subject ;-)

- LA


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(in reply to AAkasha)
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RE: Would you be monogamous with the all-in-one submiss... - 3/3/2010 11:52:41 AM   
seekingOwnertoo


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AAkaska,

i am thinking You are WAY OVER thinking this.

You are down to individual acts, that You enjoy. Which i think, belong in the realm of a relationship discussion. Between You and Your significant other.

Hell, my ex-wife used to have sex with other men. Yep, fucked em. But she did not lose the relationship for that! And it was not because i am bad in bed ... so throw that thought out with the wash.

So You know, we also discussed the fact, before marriage, and during marriage, that she had free choice in the sexual thing ... so it was part of the relationship. Because, at the time, i loved her and understood that predator instinct that has been discussed here.

Rather, She lost the relationship because no one leaves me sitting alone ... without a word ... when they said they would be there, and they say we have a "special" relationship.

It was an obvious affront to what i thought, and felt, was our intimacy. And perhaps, an indication of our mutual immaturity at the time!

So to Your point about monogamy versus polyamoury.

i am thinking that if the OP finds a man She feels would be 100% of what She wants and needs, GO for it ...

The OP already knows that the man will be really committed to Her anyway. And that he will go along with her wishes. So, reserve the option ... in case it is needed ...

Besides, the best strategy for a Lady is to keep a guy on edge anyway. And the mere threat could very well make him work really hard for the long term ... without Her ever even playing the card!



< Message edited by seekingOwnertoo -- 3/3/2010 11:54:47 AM >

(in reply to AAkasha)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: Would you be monogamous with the all-in-one submiss... - 3/3/2010 12:00:14 PM   
AAkasha


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quote:

ORIGINAL: seekingOwnertoo


Besides, the best strategy for a Lady is to keep a guy on edge anyway. And the mere threat could very well make him work really hard for the long term ... without Her ever even playing the card!




This is a horrible foundation for a relationship.  Horrible.  Manipulation and mindgames.  If you think this is ok, that speaks volumes about your bad experience with poly; as others have told you, you were just in a fucked up relationship. Those come in all flavors - mono and poly.  The fact that your SO treated you like crap isn't a result of the poly, it's because she was a rotten person.

Akasha


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(in reply to seekingOwnertoo)
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RE: Would you be monogamous with the all-in-one submiss... - 3/3/2010 12:01:14 PM   
LadyAngelika


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quote:

The OP already knows that the man will be really committed to Her anyway. And that he will go along with her wishes.


There are no guarantees of this. I have been cheated on before and who knows, it might happen again.

quote:

So, reserve the option ... in case it is needed ...

Reserving the option is tricky. What if I met a man I truly cared for and we negotiated a monogamous relationship. There is no option to reserve.

quote:

Besides, the best strategy for a Lady is to keep a guy on edge anyway. And the mere threat could very well make him work really hard for the long term ... without Her ever even playing the card!


Oh no no no no no... If I ever went down the road of poly again, I would never use having a secondary partner of any kind as a threat or a card I would play against my primary partner. Never.

- LA


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RE: Would you be monogamous with the all-in-one submiss... - 3/3/2010 12:10:38 PM   
Lockit


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How can a dominant agree to a certain type of relationship and still hold an option card to pull out, that changes the agreement or dynamic's of the relationship and still retain respect, trust, security and many other things? By wanting certain dynamic's and agreeing to them, the threat of the dominant changing things at will and then being excited by the threat, is only setting yourself up for trouble in my opinion. By allowing this to be the way it is, wouldn't that undermine the relationship and trust factors?

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RE: Would you be monogamous with the all-in-one submiss... - 3/3/2010 12:13:35 PM   
seekingOwnertoo


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Well ... if i learned anything today ... its that i have had some fucked up experiences ...

Oh well ... no wonder i am single ...

(in reply to LadyAngelika)
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RE: Would you be monogamous with the all-in-one submiss... - 3/3/2010 12:15:17 PM   
LadyAngelika


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quote:

ORIGINAL: seekingOwnertoo
Well ... if i learned anything today ... its that i have had some fucked up experiences ...

I think many of us have. They are part of life.
quote:

Oh well ... no wonder i am single ...

You are single, like me, because you are holding out for experiences with promise. Simply.

- LA


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RE: Would you be monogamous with the all-in-one submiss... - 3/3/2010 12:26:23 PM   
seekingOwnertoo


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Thanks LA ... i really appreciate Your comments

As well as AAkasha and Lockit ... all of Your comments

< Message edited by seekingOwnertoo -- 3/3/2010 12:41:06 PM >

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RE: Would you be monogamous with the all-in-one submiss... - 3/3/2010 12:38:53 PM   
Lockit


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Oh don't get me started on bad experiences! lol We learn from them hopefully. I am sure I was someone's nightmare at some point and I have had a few nightmares myself.

I think it is good to look at things and figure out if we are doing something that might be hindering us or that we might need to change, but I don't think we should blame ourselves if we are single and use it as proof that something is wrong. It could be a very good thing that we are single and we may have positive reasons for being single. Anyone can hook up with someone.

It doesn't mean a thing if someone has a relationship in a lot of situations. I've known people that took pride in saying they have been married for 20-50 years. They felt they were something special because they hadn't given up and got a divorce. What I often saw was a relationship I wouldn't want for two weeks!


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RE: Would you be monogamous with the all-in-one submiss... - 3/3/2010 1:08:39 PM   
seekingOwnertoo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

Oh don't get me started on bad experiences! lol We learn from them hopefully. I am sure I was someone's nightmare at some point and I have had a few nightmares myself.



Actually, i am thinking this is a benefit of these boards ... if i met any of You in real life ... i would not have learned this so easily ...

Moreover, it does surprise me that so many can tell me i had bad experiences ...

It really does reaffirm faith in other people ...

Because i believed i had normal experiences for a long time ... <smiles>

(in reply to Lockit)
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RE: Would you be monogamous with the all-in-one submiss... - 3/3/2010 1:13:30 PM   
Lockit


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Seeking, things can become quite normal to us. We all see normal differently though! For a moment in time, I took normal for me to be a bad relationship I couldn't get out of. Some of it was good and some of it was bad, but it all became normal day by day. I did know it wasn't cool, but it became normal.

What matter's is how we see it and if it feels right or good. We may feel fine with something until it isn't fine. Use whatever experience you have, learn from it, refine what you really want and don't beat yourself up or let others beat you up over it. It is what it is and we will be what we will be. The object is to get out alive for as long as we can and have as much fun as we can! lol


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RE: Would you be monogamous with the all-in-one submiss... - 3/4/2010 7:23:48 AM   
CallaFirestormBW


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quote:

In my experience it is when the "poly" partner takes the others acceptance of it for granted.


As expected, my situation appears to be a bit different than the relationship mentioned by seekingOwnertoo, but I have to ask the questions, because they're niggling at me...

In a healthy poly relationship, which partner is the "poly" partner? Aren't -all- the partners "poly partners"? If not, then perhaps THAT is the issue, rather than poly itself. If there is -already- the idea that one partner is sort of an "add-on" or separate from the core of the family... then it makes sense that there would be an instability there.

A stool with three legs is pretty stable... but if one of the legs on that stool is just stuck on there with scotch tape and bubble gum, then it isn't -REALLY- a three-legged stool, is it? (And somebody is going to end up with, at least, a bruised tush when it collapses, not to mention that the other legs of the stool might end up getting more than a little banged up or even broken in the process!)

Calla


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RE: Would you be monogamous with the all-in-one submiss... - 3/4/2010 8:21:56 AM   
Andalusite


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quote:

ORIGINAL: seekingOwnertoo
Regarding the Quran .. which name i do butcher (damned Yank ;-)
There is a great deal of truth in it. Although this is not the place for the debate ...
The passsage You quote (or close to quote) is similar to another ...no man can serve two Masters


There might be a reference in the Qur'an as well, but I think most people are familiar with it from the Bible.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Matthew 6:24 KJV
No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other.


Calla, by "poly partner," I assumed that they meant in the context of a mono-poly relationship, where one person isn't interested in pursuing multiple relationships, and doesn't identify as poly. It can still work out for some people, but I think it can have different emotional difficulties than a poly relationship in which everyone is poly (even if they aren't all sexually or romantically involved with each other).

< Message edited by Andalusite -- 3/4/2010 8:25:57 AM >

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RE: Would you be monogamous with the all-in-one submiss... - 3/4/2010 4:01:00 PM   
LadyAngelika


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quote:

In a healthy poly relationship, which partner is the "poly" partner? Aren't -all- the partners "poly partners"? If not, then perhaps THAT is the issue, rather than poly itself.


Andalusite just gave an example of a mono-poly... which sounds a lot like what Akasha has with her husband, which seems to work for her.

I really think it's a question of what people agree upon when they negotiate their relationship. However, I'm concerned about what happens when in the middle of all this someone changes their mind. I guess again, it's communication.

- LA


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RE: Would you be monogamous with the all-in-one submiss... - 3/4/2010 4:56:22 PM   
Madame4a


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Its definitely all about the communication if something changes.  Or, as in my case, you have two poly partners and one exercises the poly continuously and badly (not honestly) the whole relationship -- then the other (Me of course) finally spreads her poly wings and the other partner goes nuts.  I have to say, that's been my experience of poly gone bad.  I've seen it happen a lot.  It was the end of that relationship; there were several other things wrong there but it was the last straw for me.

Things do change in mid stream and its difficult if you're not on the same page. 



quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

quote:

In a healthy poly relationship, which partner is the "poly" partner? Aren't -all- the partners "poly partners"? If not, then perhaps THAT is the issue, rather than poly itself.


Andalusite just gave an example of a mono-poly... which sounds a lot like what Akasha has with her husband, which seems to work for her.

I really think it's a question of what people agree upon when they negotiate their relationship. However, I'm concerned about what happens when in the middle of all this someone changes their mind. I guess again, it's communication.

- LA



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RE: Would you be monogamous with the all-in-one submiss... - 3/4/2010 5:03:23 PM   
LadyAngelika


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Madame4a -- what you describe is basically what happened in my best friend's (now defunct) marriage. They had to live apart for a year and he proposed poly. I don't think she did more than kiss someone in that year. When she went to meet him, he didn't want to leave his secondary partner who he was seeing on a daily basis. So she got a partner. He got jealous and spent more time with his secondary as did she. It all went downhill. And though I don't favour poly, I would not blame poly for the demise of their marriage. I would blame lack of communication and respect.

- LA


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RE: Would you be monogamous with the all-in-one submiss... - 3/5/2010 8:06:14 AM   
Andalusite


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LA, I don't think it's even necessarily that they changed their mind, but rather that they didn't *realise* how it was going to affect them. We can't always predict our reactions, especially if we've never been in that situation before. No amount of communication ahead of time can resolve all of that - at some point, they have to take the leap and actually try it. This doesn't just apply to poly, it also applies to *lots* of different kinds of BDSM play, particularly humiliation and others that are primarily emotionally based.

< Message edited by Andalusite -- 3/5/2010 8:07:33 AM >

(in reply to LadyAngelika)
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