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RE: Another Asperger Syndrome Thread - 3/5/2010 7:17:56 PM

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NiteOwl, it's possible to disagree and still be civil. "Being a self-righteous dick" is not one of the clinical signs of ADHD. Luscious isn't a dope, and isn't ignorant. Does she know everything? No. Nobody does. Not her, not me... and not even you.

Do you want to have a conversation, or do you want to have everyone who reads this thread think you are an asshole? Seriously. It's Friday night and you're on the computer. Wouldn't you rather make a new friend than alienate even more people?

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Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to lusciouslips19)

RE: Another Asperger Syndrome Thread - 3/5/2010 7:17:57 PM

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NiteOwl, my son is brain damaged and it has nothing to do with the topic at hand except that there are some similarities in what we do as parents and go through.

What you don't seem to consider concerning the op/Lushy is that she has done the research and has lived with her child all these years and knows him well. Because someone would like suggestions on what she might do in a situation, doesn't mean she is clueless and should be subjected to someone who claims to know her son and situation better than she or the doctors that they are seeing.

The way I see it, you are out of line and just need to stop. We know Lushy and know that she is not in denial and if she found any worth in what you have said, she would deal with it even if it was difficult to do.

You know, it would be one thing to argue something with someone that you are correct in, but there is no way you can convince me and maybe others that you know Lushy and her son's situation better than Lushy does. Maybe you need to go fixate on something else.

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RE: Another Asperger Syndrome Thread - 3/5/2010 7:18:35 PM

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So show me cites that prove I'm wrong.

(in reply to NiteOwl1971)

RE: Another Asperger Syndrome Thread - 3/5/2010 7:22:54 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NiteOwl1971

So show me cites that prove I'm wrong.

So you know, this demonstrates beyond a shadow of a doubt that you are an amateur keyboard warrior with this stuff. And that's ok. I don't consider myself an "expert" at much of anything. I do, however, do scientific research for a living, and when I submit something, the responsibility is MINE to justify what I say.

It is lazy to expect the reader to find the flaw in your reasoning, or to attempt to clean up your mess. So please. Take a deep breath and step back. The world will not end just because not everyone believes you right away. For real.

Welcome to the boards!

_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to NiteOwl1971)

RE: Another Asperger Syndrome Thread - 3/5/2010 7:28:16 PM

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I never claimed to know her or her situation better than her.

I said that maybe she try an approach that works towards the kids strengths rather than weaknesses.

Your whole skewing the situation is as bad as denying that the issue exists in the first place.

I have children of my own, and love them enough that if what I was doing wasn't working, that I would try something else, even if I didn't completely understand it. Especially, if it was merely a different approach to a situation that already had me grinding my teeth.

But then again, as you said, I don't know them, so maybe I AM just way off base. But I say again, I love my kids enough to try a new approach, and I'ld appreciate it if you'ld step back and think about it for a few.

(in reply to NiteOwl1971)

RE: Another Asperger Syndrome Thread - 3/5/2010 7:31:42 PM

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Are you implying that any parent or Lushy doesn't love their child enough to enhance their world by using their interest and strengths? Really? You dare say something like that about someone you do not know? That's bold dude.

I'm real glad you love your children but don't for one minute think that anyone on this thread doesn't love their children just as much as you might love your own. Don't dare think you are special and that anyone else is lacking because they dispute what you might say and your assumptions.

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(in reply to NiteOwl1971)

RE: Another Asperger Syndrome Thread - 3/5/2010 7:35:01 PM

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Hey RedMagic1,

Thanks for the welcome.

Just to let you know, I did post, and that was apparently not good enough. Let me quote it again completely rather than in part:
* "Please explain the basic differences between diagnosing Asperger's and ADHD. My son, who has been diagnosed with ADHD, exhibits several of symptoms of Asperger's as well as most of those associated with ADHD, so I'm now curious about the differences...."

* Many children with Pervasive Developmental Disorders (PDD) (as you know Asperger's Disorder is one of them) do meet the diagnostic criteria for ADHD. DSM-IV prohibits diagnosing ADHD when there is PDD since all the ADHD symptoms can be attributed to PDD. Clinicians who overlook other symptoms of PDD tend to diagnose these children as ADHD.

This cites DSM-IV, which, regardless of the purpose of the website, is a reliable source, so by passing off the info as irrelivant (without obviously reading it) means that she's not interested in the sources, but is more intereted in being right.... and her comments support that conclusion.

(in reply to NiteOwl1971)

RE: Another Asperger Syndrome Thread - 3/5/2010 7:43:37 PM

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Lockit,

I did not say that they were lacking. Nor did I say that they did not love their children.

I am saying that you had better take your own advice and don't you dare think that just because the approach that I suggested is invalid because you don't understand it. Furthermore, I am saying that due to the unusual wiring that is present in these cases, that it is hard for a parent to recognize these differences, partly due to being to close to the situation, and partly due to the general lack of recognition that those differences even exist.

The only problem that I see is if someone keeps trying the same thing over and over expecting a different result. If you want science, then doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result is definately not it.

(in reply to NiteOwl1971)

RE: Another Asperger Syndrome Thread - 3/5/2010 7:55:58 PM

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NiteOwl, you say you love your children enough to do things a certain way and you do say that because we are not open to your way or the way you see it after your own experiences and research, that Lushy (at least) doesn't like what you say and we are not able to see what must be done to help our children. How do you know all that has been done to understand our beloved children? You can't know that. You are assuming.

You attacked with your harsh words... let's see, what were they? Lushy was being too stubborn to try new things or your idea's... that she only wanted answers she could understand... that tying him down and beating him until he gets it sounds about all she understands... then you mentioned her starting this thread to tell people how bad she had it because her child was born the way he was.

And all this just on this page of the thread! You are out of line.

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No matter how old a woman gets, some men will think she was born yesterday! ROFL... I love this place!

(in reply to NiteOwl1971)

RE: Another Asperger Syndrome Thread - 3/5/2010 8:00:31 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19

Edited: becuase i see you are comparing Adhd and ADD. But the difference is not mental vs. physical. The difference is one with ADD but no Hyperactivity and one has hyperactivity as a component. Thats the difference.

Depending on the age of the source and the source itself, many have reached the conclusion that ADD and ADHD are indeed interchangeable.

Regardless, you son has a diagnosis of Asperger's Syndrome, so any diagnostic criteria to Attention Deficit is irrelevant.

With almost all developmental/learning disabilities, REPETITION is the key to success. If you can get him an electronic calendar type of device with alarms, it will help to move him along. Yes, he can become fixated on one particular thing, which can make it a challenge, but if he should become fixated on something, then a heard of elephants going by wouldn't snap him out it.

We all kind of "learn" as adults that nagging is a bad thing, and we also hate having to repeatedly tell someone to do something. But you aren't nagging by constantly telling your son to do things. You are lucky that he is at an age where it he is primed for learning that independence. You have to remember that no matter how rushed you might be to get to school in the morning or out somewhere, "helping" him along the way does more harm than good.

As I said earlier, having him repeat tasks back to you will help. He already has them in his memory, but it's like the asperger's puts up a wall that prevents them from coming forward. His verbal repeating it will help make little holes in the wall that let's the information through.

You can even make a game out of the whole thing. Apparently he loves school and does well with his assignments and homework. Present all these other tasks the same way his school assignments are presented. You might even speak with his teachers and they can work those things into a school assignment. Since he likes school, those tasks will take on a different meaning and it could help. Then again it might not.

There is no tried and true method to these things, because no two children are alike. As parents it can be incredibly frustrating and takes a tremendous amount of patience. If I remember correctly, your husband is very close by, so you have the benefit of not having to do it all by yourself. But that is another important factor. You and him have to be consistent. There can't be any doing it this way with dad, and another way with mom. It will totally mess with the poor kid's head.

The other REALLY important thing that you need to remember? Make sure you take some time for yourself every week. Even if it is only 2-3 hours. As much as we love our special needs children, we need time to breath and "destress."

(in reply to lusciouslips19)

RE: Another Asperger Syndrome Thread - 3/5/2010 8:06:20 PM

NefertariReborn

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NiteOwl1971

So show me cites that prove I'm wrong.

So you know, this demonstrates beyond a shadow of a doubt that you are an amateur keyboard warrior with this stuff. And that's ok. I don't consider myself an "expert" at much of anything. I do, however, do scientific research for a living, and when I submit something, the responsibility is MINE to justify what I say.

It is lazy to expect the reader to find the flaw in your reasoning, or to attempt to clean up your mess. So please. Take a deep breath and step back. The world will not end just because not everyone believes you right away. For real. - RedMagic1 "

Ahem! As one researcher to the next, I'm sure you know that's poppycock. That's the reason any good researcher publishes his/her findings in a respected journal to be peer reviewed. We humans have this bad habit of overlooking certain things, even with the best controls in place.

As to the thread. Don't see what all the bashing is about. It's 6 of one and half a dozen of the other. There is no DEFINITIVE test for ADD, ADHD or PDD. No blood test; no xray. We're looking for "Behaviours."The spectrum for PDD is so vast that much of what is described as ADD or ADHD is to be found under its umbrella as well. If everyone would stop huffing, perhaps you might see that there is value in what each of you is saying. Structure and responsibility is fantastic. I advocate it daily but so are the concepts niteowl is sharing. I advocate for those as well. I'm a constructivist so any opportunity to be learner-centred and have children take ownership for what and how they learn rocks in My boat.

They were all touching the elephant....(If you read children's books, you'll know what I mean by this.)

Now go out and change the world for children and adults with disabilities. No need to war among ourselves.

~edited because I left out the quote. See? Overlooked something gosh darn!

< Message edited by NefertariReborn -- 3/5/2010 8:13:10 PM >

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“How will you become a clear mirror if you resent being polished

(in reply to RedMagic1)

RE: Another Asperger Syndrome Thread - 3/5/2010 8:10:08 PM

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I am huffing about NiteOwl's manner of attack when opposed. His attacks or insults are not needed. He could state what he believes without the judgment, the insults, implications and assumptions of others parental skills and knowledge of their children.

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RE: Another Asperger Syndrome Thread - 3/5/2010 8:19:04 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

NiteOwl, you say you love your children enough to do things a certain way and you do say that because we are not open to your way or the way you see it after your own experiences and research, that Lushy (at least) doesn't like what you say and we are not able to see what must be done to help our children. How do you know all that has been done to understand our beloved children? You can't know that. You are assuming.

You attacked with your harsh words... let's see, what were they? Lushy was being too stubborn to try new things or your idea's... that she only wanted answers she could understand... that tying him down and beating him until he gets it sounds about all she understands... then you mentioned her starting this thread to tell people how bad she had it because her child was born the way he was.

And all this just on this page of the thread! You are out of line.

Perhaps I was kind of harsh. But I was NOT out of line.

quote:

ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19

Now the challenges. Someone with an Aspie child put it into perfect words. He said,"Its like you are living your life and theirs". This is so true. He does what hes told, but he gets sidetracked easily and he doesnt do anything of his own accord. He needs constant prodding and reminders to stay on track when getting ready for school. He does have a morning checklist but he wont look t it unless hes reminded. He has calenders but will only look at them when prompted.

I am concerned with how he will lead an independent life? It would work if he could learn to make his own schedulers and check appointments and such. At this point hes not capable.

What advice can other Aspies or parents of Aspies give me to move these types of training and skillbuilding along? At ths point he cant do anything without being told step by step.

So I gave her some tools to use, and she fought like my ex who still refuses to acknowledge the issues that my children have. So if she doesn't want to consider them (as her responses indicated) the kid still deserves better, as do the parents. So harsh? Yeah. I see that. Out of line? Nope.

(in reply to Lockit)

RE: Another Asperger Syndrome Thread - 3/5/2010 8:20:21 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NefertariReborn
That's the reason any good researcher publishes his/her findings in a respected journal to be peer reviewed. We humans have this bad habit of overlooking certain things, even with the best controls in place.

A good researcher submits to a respected journal, and the journal, after a review process, decides whether to publish. The submission includes a list of references that provide scientific background and justification for the claims made. Submissions without references tend to be rejected at once, without evaluation of other content.

For someone who is against "bashing" in the thread, your statement that my position was "poppycock" is, ah, ironic.

Same thing I said to NiteOwl. You can insult me further, or you can try to find common ground. My position was not incorrect, but I'm not bored and looking for an online beatdown. I think it's likely that you misread or misunderstood my previous post.

_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to NefertariReborn)

RE: Another Asperger Syndrome Thread - 3/5/2010 8:21:39 PM

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You were not out of line to say that all she understands is tying her son down and beating him?

Okay dude... I'm done with you. You have proven my point quite clearly.

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No matter how old a woman gets, some men will think she was born yesterday! ROFL... I love this place!

(in reply to NiteOwl1971)

RE: Another Asperger Syndrome Thread - 3/5/2010 8:25:43 PM

thepillowdreamer

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quote:

ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19
becuase i see you are comparing Adhd and ADD. But the difference is not mental vs. physical. The difference is one with ADD but no Hyperactivity and one has hyperactivity as a component. Thats the difference.

i think it's time to ignore niteowl on this regard. i smell another brick wall smacker.

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RE: Another Asperger Syndrome Thread - 3/5/2010 8:28:27 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

I am huffing about NiteOwl's manner of attack when opposed. His attacks or insults are not needed. He could state what he believes without the judgment, the insults, implications and assumptions of others parental skills and knowledge of their children.

Nor are yours.

I started out with stating what I believed, then met with the closed minded attitude, and that just pisses me off to no end. Discounting a tool simply because you can't wrap your mind around it right away. GRRRR!!!
Truth be told, as an adult looking back, the weaknesses that I never learned to manage well, are that much harder to master now. And if my experiences can enlighten another parent, so that another kid doesn't have to go through that, then it's worth the ridicule. And if that means that harsh words get used, HOOORAAAAH!!!!

(in reply to Lockit)

RE: Another Asperger Syndrome Thread - 3/5/2010 8:30:02 PM

NefertariReborn

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

quote:

ORIGINAL: NefertariReborn
That's the reason any good researcher publishes his/her findings in a respected journal to be peer reviewed. We humans have this bad habit of overlooking certain things, even with the best controls in place.

A good researcher submits to a respected journal, and the journal, after a review process, decides whether to publish. The submission includes a list of references that provide scientific background and justification for the claims made. Submissions without references tend to be rejected at once, without evaluation of other content.

For someone who is against "bashing" in the thread, your statement that my position was "poppycock" is, ah, ironic.

Same thing I said to NiteOwl. You can insult me further, or you can try to find common ground. My position was not incorrect, but I'm not bored and looking for an online beatdown. I think it's likely that you misread or misunderstood my previous post.

ooooooooooo swing and then take the high road.... good job but I've seen it done better...I've done it once or twice in My lifetime. I could debate the publishing for peer review but that would derail this thread. I'm sure you've seen your fair share of bad research published after being submitted and reviewed with all the proper citations, figures and bibliographies in place. That's what the research community is for surely to try to replicate and establish the soundness of the study, not just to read it. But perhaps you haven't. I can't fault you for that.

And if you take offense to poppycock, My humblest apologies. I thought it more sardonic than ironic but I'm willing to yield to your feelings. I was going to say bullshit but thought that beneath you.

And now back to the thread....Asperger's I think it was...

< Message edited by NefertariReborn -- 3/5/2010 8:37:23 PM >

_____________________________

“Security is mostly a superstition…Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure or it is nothing at all.” -Helen Keller

“How will you become a clear mirror if you resent being polished

(in reply to RedMagic1)

RE: Another Asperger Syndrome Thread - 3/5/2010 8:31:55 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

You were not out of line to say that all she understands is tying her son down and beating him?

Okay dude... I'm done with you. You have proven my point quite clearly.

That statement was alliteration of the attitude that was displayed.
And if you want to continue putting me down, fine. Though, that also means that you are not nearly as upstanding as you want to appear.

(in reply to Lockit)

RE: Another Asperger Syndrome Thread - 3/5/2010 8:40:00 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

NiteOwl, it's possible to disagree and still be civil. "Being a self-righteous dick" is not one of the clinical signs of ADHD. Luscious isn't a dope, and isn't ignorant. Does she know everything? No. Nobody does. Not her, not me... and not even you.

Do you want to have a conversation, or do you want to have everyone who reads this thread think you are an asshole? Seriously. It's Friday night and you're on the computer. Wouldn't you rather make a new friend than alienate even more people?

LOL
I notice that you are on the computer on a Friday night as well.

Besides, I didn't say she was ignorant or dope.
As for the rest, I don't care. It was too hard to keep track of everything growing up, so something had to fall by the wayside, unfortunaly, that ended up being social things. It was hard, I realize now, because, however well intentioned, my parents didn't see what I have been trying to say.
That didn't make them ignorant or dopes. It just means that they did the best that they knew to do with the information at hand, which I am sure that Lucious is doing as well. Attacking me, rather than discussing the idea was being just as big of an asshole and jerk as you are saying that I am being.

(in reply to RedMagic1)

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