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RE: Do you really know what a Prodomme is? - 4/30/2010 3:47:48 PM

MissAsylum

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omg- i missed the cat fight?

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RE: Do you really know what a Prodomme is? - 4/30/2010 4:00:05 PM

LadyAngelika

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MissAsylum

omg- i missed the cat fight?

Sometimes people miss thing when they are right in the middle of them. It's unfortunate.

- LA

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RE: Do you really know what a Prodomme is? - 4/30/2010 4:19:07 PM

Politesub53

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

quote:

ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsAlisedeSade

I never said I was nice. And you don't have to like me or anything about me there are plenty of other people who are far more pleasant for you to deal with than I. Why not talk to them?

Seriously? 'I never said I was nice'? What is this, playgroup?

I don't reckon either of you are showing your best sides (or mental ages) by cat-fighting like this.

VC, cat fighting is like a pissing contest for women. Not very elegant, I agree.

- LA

Is it okay to say they are fun to watch.

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RE: Do you really know what a Prodomme is? - 4/30/2010 5:21:44 PM

PeonForHer

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ORIGINAL: Politesub53
Is it okay to say they are fun to watch.

You've seen a female pissing contest? Where? Gimme the link!

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RE: Do you really know what a Prodomme is? - 5/1/2010 3:22:45 AM

MissAsylum

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jokey joke lovie. i forgot the "lol", my mistake. i don't know if i could be that ignorant to something i'm in the middle of if i tried. *thinks second time* nope- couldn't.

< Message edited by MissAsylum -- 5/1/2010 3:28:57 AM >

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RE: Do you really know what a Prodomme is? - 5/1/2010 3:26:09 AM

MissAsylum

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and by the bye- thank you for the dita suggestion for my photoshoot forum. granted, the photographer hasnt a smidge of a clue as to who she is(he poor soul), so i'll be hunting for a new photographer as well.

< Message edited by MissAsylum -- 5/1/2010 3:30:31 AM >

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RE: Do you really know what a Prodomme is? - 5/1/2010 4:45:57 AM

LadyAngelika

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MissAsylum

and by the bye- thank you for the dita suggestion for my photoshoot forum. granted, the photographer hasnt a smidge of a clue as to who she is(he poor soul), so i'll be hunting for a new photographer as well.

Cool. Though I think it was Sylvere's suggestion (I just pointed you to her response on the other thread) :-) We'd all love to see the photos when they are done!

- LA

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RE: Do you really know what a Prodomme is? - 5/1/2010 10:11:32 AM

whipmaker7

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MsAlisedeSade, I can speak from first-hand experience that pro does not mean prostitute. My ex did professional dominating for several years and never once did intimate contact go beyond toe sucking and ass kissing (clothed that is.)

Pro dommes and hookers are not the same, folks. Not that I have anything against prostitutes. I like many here would like to see it legalized.

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RE: Do you really know what a Prodomme is? - 5/1/2010 10:30:15 AM

whipmaker7

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I agree, LA about the legalizing issue.

I think you missed marc's point about what prostitute means, though. Prostituting involves penetration,sexual intercourse, etc. so to say all pros are whores because they offer sexual services isn't very accurate.

a 'sexual service' to one man may be getting tomtatoes thrown at him for an hour while he's nude. 75% of the time it means getting your arse caned with your pants down and kissing boots, being tied up, getting slapped, serving as an ash tray, table, ect.

Being allowed to rub one out in some weird way depends on the preferences of the domina.

i think a lot of people just have issues with pros, so they like putting them under the same category as prostitutes. It's not accurate however. not from what I've seen.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

quote:

"Sex worker" sounds somewhat refined, albeit too bureaucratic. "Dominatrix" or "Professional Domina" works well for me. I'm not certain why we, of all people, can't accept them.

I have no problems accepting the terms. I will however have my own personal feelings about them. What is most important is that the woman in question is at ease with who she is and what she is doing.

And to me, it is a sexual service for money (sex doesn't mean penetration). However, I think these types of services should be legalized for those who want to partake in them in a safe manner.

- LA

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RE: Do you really know what a Prodomme is? - 5/1/2010 5:33:08 PM

cloudboy

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quote:

I think you missed marc's point about what prostitute means, though. Prostituting involves penetration,sexual intercourse, etc. so to say all pros are whores because they offer sexual services isn't very accurate.

prostitute |ˈprästəˌt(y)oōt|
noun

a person, typically a woman, who engages in sexual activity for payment.

• figurative a person who misuses their talents or who sacrifices their self-respect for the sake of personal or financial gain : careerist political prostitutes.

--------

Domiguy is often harping on the figurative definition.

-------

I would agree that "Pro dommes and hookers are not the same," but that does not mean that each is not classifiable as a prostitute.

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 5/1/2010 5:35:51 PM >

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RE: Do you really know what a Prodomme is? - 5/2/2010 6:54:04 AM

whipmaker7

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Not that I'm a dictionary buff, but… may I ask what your source is cloudboy??
I went to dictionary.com (seemed a logical place to go) and found this:

Prostitute: a woman who engages in sexual intercourse for money; whore; harlot.
Prostitution: the act or practice of engaging in sexual intercourse for money.

When I had read this debate earlier I admit it forced me to pull out my crusty dictionary from the shelf and found it matches almost word for word with above.

I did see the second definition you're talking about, though -- a person who willingly uses his or her talent or ability in a base and unworthy way, usually for money.

after reading that, I thought, man… that second definition 'classifies' most of us as prostitutes. We all better get real with this word, and pronto. lol

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RE: Do you really know what a Prodomme is? - 5/2/2010 8:44:25 AM

cloudboy

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The Oxford American Dictionary.

I checked out some other dictionaries, and they do use the word "intercourse" in their definitions.

When describing "sex" I prefer a broader definition because for me sex is a lot more than intercourse. In the legal world, however, where cops and prosecutors need need a more narrow definition to limit insane amounts of litigation and debate, I could see the need to add intercourse and other thresholds to the equation.

A professional dominatrix is a woman who is less debased than a traditional prostitute engaged in conventional sex practices. But although the dominatrix is less soiled by the service she's offering -- to my mind she is in fact offering sexual services for money. She is engaged in a libidinous activity, unlike other personal service providers.

Overall, I am better able to "romanticize" a professional dominatrix than I am a conventional prostitute. I do see a distinction.

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 5/2/2010 8:46:04 AM >

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RE: Do you really know what a Prodomme is? - 5/2/2010 6:00:20 PM

whipmaker7

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Yup, or you could say that when sharp lawyers hash it out and get down to the most bare bones meanings of things its judged that intercourse for money is historically the backbone of the definition.

because otherwise you're right--there would be a helluva lot of people we need to put behind bars if its just a matter of 'a sexual activity for money'.

There's a reason dungeons can exist in LA and NY in open view to the public and there's a reason brothels can't.

p.s. Never thought of a pro as being 'sullied' just for being a pro before. I just find that idea odd, coming from the lifestyle I've been in, but hey... different strokes I guess.

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

The Oxford American Dictionary.

I checked out some other dictionaries, and they do use the word "intercourse" in their definitions.

When describing "sex" I prefer a broader definition because for me sex is a lot more than intercourse. In the legal world, however, where cops and prosecutors need need a more narrow definition to limit insane amounts of litigation and debate, I could see the need to add intercourse and other thresholds to the equation.

A professional dominatrix is a woman who is less debased than a traditional prostitute engaged in conventional sex practices. But although the dominatrix is less soiled by the service she's offering -- to my mind she is in fact offering sexual services for money. She is engaged in a libidinous activity, unlike other personal service providers.

Overall, I am better able to "romanticize" a professional dominatrix than I am a conventional prostitute. I do see a distinction.

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RE: Do you really know what a Prodomme is? - 5/2/2010 7:36:05 PM

PeonForHer

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quote:

ORIGINAL: whipmaker7

I did see the second definition you're talking about, though -- a person who willingly uses his or her talent or ability in a base and unworthy way, usually for money.

Hmm. Going on that second definition, there are people other than prostitutes themselves for whom it fits a lot better, as far as I'm concerned. For instance: journalists who tow their newspaper owner's political line in their writing, though it's the opposite to such journalists' own political views, prostitute themselves far more than do prostitutes themselves.

A somewhat thorny subject here in the UK at the moment, with the General Election looming. Best we don't get into it here, I suppose.

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RE: Do you really know what a Prodomme is? - 5/3/2010 3:42:24 PM

MarcEsadrian

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quote:

ORIGINAL: whipmaker7

Yup, or you could say that when sharp lawyers hash it out and get down to the most bare bones meanings of things its judged that intercourse for money is historically the backbone of the definition.

because otherwise you're right--there would be a helluva lot of people we need to put behind bars if its just a matter of 'a sexual activity for money'.

There's a reason dungeons can exist in LA and NY in open view to the public and there's a reason brothels can't.

Bingo.

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

ORIGINAL: whipmaker7

I did see the second definition you're talking about, though -- a person who willingly uses his or her talent or ability in a base and unworthy way, usually for money.

Hmm. Going on that second definition, there are people other than prostitutes themselves for whom it fits a lot better, as far as I'm concerned.

I was heading toward poking at this idea, too. I think those who harp on the "talents used for a base and unworthy way for money" concept should probably look at the culture of their surrounding economy, if not the nature of their own livelihood. Philosophically, the prostitute concept can be stretched into a pretty wide umbrella.

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RE: Do you really know what a Prodomme is? - 5/3/2010 4:20:19 PM

cloudboy

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quote:

I was heading toward poking at this idea, too. I think those who harp on the "talents used for a base and unworthy way for money" concept should probably look at the culture of their surrounding economy, if not the nature of their own livelihood. Philosophically, the prostitute concept can be stretched into a pretty wide umbrella.

No, here you are engaged in intellectual bullshit. There are not many things that lower and debase a woman more than prostitution.

Real sexual relationships are not hard to find. There are plenty of adults of both sexes who are willing to have sex if someone treats them well, and asks. But there lies the problem. Some people do not want an equal, sharing relationship. They do not want to be nice. They do not want to ask. They like the power involved in buying a human being who can be made to do almost anything.

In the case of a professional dominatrix, she is arguably less at the mercy of her Johns and also less likely to contract STDs. But please, let's not get into elevating prostitution as a good, clean, wholesome profession. The sex industry exposes its workers to physical harm, tarnished reputations, STDs, criminal convictions, and the influences of an unsavory clientele.

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RE: Do you really know what a Prodomme is? - 5/3/2010 4:24:57 PM

PeonForHer

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MarcEsadrian

Philosophically, the prostitute concept can be stretched into a pretty wide umbrella.

Never mind 'philosophically', Marc - it's been in use in that way in common parlance for many years now. It's a well-established definition of the word - especially in the verb-form. When one 'prostitutes' oneself, one does something low and base with one's mind, body, or soul (or indeed all three at once).

But 'prostitute' as 'a person who gives sex for money' - that needn't involve anything pejorative at all. The real trouble is, of course, that it just does, though. We don't have a commonly-used term that's exactly equivalent to 'prostitute' but which isn't pejorative.

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RE: Do you really know what a Prodomme is? - 5/3/2010 8:37:00 PM

MarcEsadrian

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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy
No, here you are engaged in intellectual bullshit. There are not many things that lower and debase a woman more than prostitution.

Except of course those who continue to insist that prostitution be viewed always as evil, contemptable, morally wrong and debasing to a woman, no matter the circumstance, thus continuing the negative stigma. I won't be so brazen as to label your argument intellectual bullshit, but I do think it sounds like you're confusing forced prostitution with voluntary prostitution.

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy
But there lies the problem. Some people do not want an equal, sharing relationship. They do not want to be nice. They do not want to ask. They like the power involved in buying a human being who can be made to do almost anything.

Oh, the irony of such an lament on a website that often eroticizes just these ideas.

But in all seriousness, the point is human beings are bought to do everything in a capitalist society, including the provision of blowjobs. If there weren't any economic compulsion to do so, few people would work eight plus hours a day risking their lives as sanitation workers, coal miners, taxi drivers and iron workers, which, by the way, happen to be among just a few of the most dangerous jobs there are.

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy
But please, let's not get into elevating prostitution as a good, clean, wholesome profession.

I say we do just that. And while we're at it, let's work on the problems of sexual repression in society, which both feed and condemn the practice all at once. Criminalization has had a spotty to ineffective record in managing the sex industry. Sex work will be here for a very long time. We need a new direction of thinking on the matter, I feel.

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy
The sex industry exposes its workers to physical harm, tarnished reputations, STDs, criminal convictions, and the influences of an unsavory clientele.

Sounds a lot like politics to me, or life for those who choose the BDSM lifestyle (just for the record, I am engaging in intellectual humor, though not completely). As I illustrated previously, there are plenty of jobs that offer a scary mortality rate in western society, and many inhabit those jobs out of economic compulsion. Chancing higher risk of death for cash sounds a little bit beyond "base and unworthy" to me. With that in mind, while I don't argue the evils present in certain iterations of prostitution throughout the world, I do see the irony in those who see themselves far above the popular second definition of the term.

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RE: Do you really know what a Prodomme is? - 5/3/2010 8:46:28 PM

MarcEsadrian

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
But 'prostitute' as 'a person who gives sex for money' - that needn't involve anything pejorative at all. The real trouble is, of course, that it just does, though. We don't have a commonly-used term that's exactly equivalent to 'prostitute' but which isn't pejorative.

A salient point, and I think it's one of the most critical in this entire thread. Somewhere along the discussion, I believe someone alluded to "prostitute" being a better word than "whore". I think they both have culturally negative stigmas, and is another fairly obvious reason why Pro Dominas take issue with such words.

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RE: Do you really know what a Prodomme is? - 5/8/2010 2:57:35 AM

MistressRouge

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I am not in denial, I provide pro sessions, I do not have sex in the conventional way, however I pummel their arses with My strap-ons, so yes I have sex in that way.

My pro-sessions are sexually charged, lots of fetish sessions also which is a sexual catalyst for many.

So yes, some see Me as a prostitute/sex worker, I am not offended by that notion, so what lol :)

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