RE: The Perils of Being Yourself (Full Version)

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VampiresLair -> RE: The Perils of Being Yourself (5/2/2010 12:43:14 PM)

Each of us have a definition of what Master and slave mean to us, and they do not always translate well. Fox and I have one set of friends who consider themselves M/s but we cant understand their dynamic at all. It doesnt fit how we do things, and we didnt assume it should but for as long as we have known them what they tell us is the power dynamic and what they demonstrate have never matched. We accept them because the male of the couple is a very valuable friend of mine, but if we ever tried to make anything else of our situation liek you did yours I could see a similar outcome.

It is always disheartening to learn that someone supposedly open minded cant handle what they see when it comes to someone elses dynamic. Especially someone you have known for quite some time, who all of a sudden pull the "Wait, you were serious about that?" card. I have lost a few friends to things like that, including a 10 year friendship with a girl back in NY who just coudnt handle the idea that I really was bisexual after I had been open about it with her since we met and I knew what it meant. It took her actually seeing me kiss another girl to start the melt down, going from perfectly accepting to completely disgusted by the idea in less than a day. Sometimes, the idea of what you are OK with and the reality of what you are OK with do not actually mesh as well as you expected.

DV



leadership527 -> RE: The Perils of Being Yourself (5/2/2010 1:00:20 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: VampiresLair
It is always disheartening to learn that someone supposedly open minded cant handle what they see when it comes to someone elses dynamic. Especially someone you have known for quite some time, who all of a sudden pull the "Wait, you were serious about that?" card.
That sums it up in a nutshell. I was serious about the T part of TPE. I think their own world views just couldn't really comprehend that so they filtered the message down to something that made sense to them. I didn't understand that filtering process was in play. In the end, that sort of deeply seated world view mismatch is the most pernicious sort of communication problem to uncover because nobody even knows it's happening.



domiguy -> RE: The Perils of Being Yourself (5/2/2010 1:03:14 PM)

Let me add some fuel to the fire. It's you. The reason people didn't dig you guys is probably because you are kind of creepy.

It's not because you are Black or Mormon, it's because that you are you.

Sorry. Face the facts and move on if you must, but you will inevitably realize that you are probably just running from yourselves. And those fuckers are sprinters.

Good luck to you nonetheless.




leadership527 -> RE: The Perils of Being Yourself (5/2/2010 1:23:23 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy
Let me add some fuel to the fire. It's you. The reason people didn't dig you guys is probably because you are kind of creepy.
Wow! Really? That's kind of cool. I've always been that boring vanilla guy. FINALLY I can be the creepy deviant!



Level -> RE: The Perils of Being Yourself (5/2/2010 3:32:09 PM)

Jeff, the Creepy Deviant

Yeah, that has a ring to it! I'd have it on my sig line, stat. [:D]



Whiplashsmile4 -> RE: The Perils of Being Yourself (5/2/2010 6:17:09 PM)

I've found more people accepting of kink compared to D/s.. and some people tend to get really disturbed when you use the Words Master and slave in the your relationship description. People don't freak when relationship partners are called "Boss" or talk about who's in charge. You can get eyebrows raised a lot with Dominant and submissive.. but as soon as you pull out the "Master" and "slave" words.. that pretty much is a mental mind fuck for other people. One of those things which is better to tone down a little...



reynardfox -> RE: The Perils of Being Yourself (5/2/2010 7:41:38 PM)

I've lost friendships on several occaisions when I've been outed as a Dom.
Fuck 'em.
If they can't accept that I have a right to a sex life they were never my friends.
I'm very open these days, but, to be honest, I no longer worry about what people think. I'm a happier and possibly a better person for it.



WinsomeDefiance -> RE: The Perils of Being Yourself (5/3/2010 12:41:32 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy
Let me add some fuel to the fire. It's you. The reason people didn't dig you guys is probably because you are kind of creepy.
Wow! Really? That's kind of cool. I've always been that boring vanilla guy. FINALLY I can be the creepy deviant!


You can be the Resident Creepy Deviant.

PS - I'd like to say something thoughtful and helpful here, but all I have is i'm sorry you both are going through this. It really sucks.



ownedbyPF -> RE: The Perils of Being Yourself (5/3/2010 6:08:08 AM)

Hi Jeff,

Well, I'm awfully sorry that things didn't work out as you had hoped. We have a small group of friends. I read alot on here about how people have friends and don't tell them what they do in their bedrooms. That's all fine and well. For us though, so much of our relationship extends beyond the bedroom that things become rather obvious that we aren't "normal". It doesn't matter that I don't drop to my knees or call him Master in front of anyone. It's more like, because we operate in a manner that could best be described as a 50's thing... you know, making dinner, and fetching him a drink, deferring to him etc..that in itself makes people go, what are you doing??! I mean I'm supposed to complain about picking up his laundry, and getting him a drink, and taking his plate, right? ;) So, i've come to a point where I'm just not interested in adding to my list... people I need to pick and choose how to be in front of! Not to mention there are the people who expect me to just, pop out to lunch with them, or blow off this and that to spend a day shopping.... the list goes on! Things that are "normal" in today's version of marriage, that don't fly in our little bubble.

However, that is vanilla based friendships, not what you are talking about. You are talking about people who "knew" your situation. Unfortunately, I relate to that also! It's like DV said... we know alot of people who say they are TPE, but we don't see it. We don't care if they are or are not, it's just that they claim they are, yet every interaction says the opposite... again that's okay. Where it becomes an issue is when they look at us and go omg! You can't do that! That's too much! Blah blah blah. It goes right along with the acceptance factor Merc was talking about. There are all kinds of kink things that I don't get, but my attitude is, hey, knock yourself out! When the attitude you afford others isn't reciprocated, by the very same people you are applying it to... it really stings! So you have more than just my sympathy because not only does this incorporate dreams dashed, and feelings of rejection, and anger to try to abate, it involves the upheavel of moving as well.[>:]
~s



tigreetsa -> RE: The Perils of Being Yourself (5/3/2010 6:11:00 AM)

I understand the OP completely and this is has been known to me for some years ever since November 2005 in Poland when I came out publicly and went from being a well-known public figure in Polish society to being a socially excluded rough sleeper within eight days.

This was never about me being transgendered, a successful artist, being kinky, or anything else - this was about me refusing to conform and 'fit in' and about me being me and being different. That is all it takes these days to find yourself to be on the wrong side of a community, of other people - all you need is to be perceived as being different.

I spend a lot of time alone, isolated, and accept that I may never ever find myself in another relationship with anyone. But then again this was true even long before I came out and even long before I was successful.

Now you would think by the very nature of the activities and the dynamics here that people would be aware that BDSM is primarily about relationships and interaction with other people but in many cases it's people who are focussed on their own needs, their own ego and these people will have no hesitation in moving on and dropping you if you don't fit in with their requirements. But then again it's quite like being out there in wider society.

Jeff, I wish you and Carol both well but would advise you to look beyond the anger and appreciate what is really important - you are now free to live life on your own terms because this is what attracts other people who think the same to you.

Less is really more. The thing is I am not really alone, just have a smaller circle of friends who are very close to me as I am to them. Spending a lot of time on your own is pretty good at teaching you to find happiness at smaller, more trivial things and you learn to appreciate people and friendships more.

The last five years haven't been easy for me, but I'm really glad that they've happened and that I managed to get through them. I don't miss that glamorous or successful lifestyle that I walked away from, through I admit sometimes I miss some of the people, but that doesn't matter because soon I will be able to go off and see them and meet with them again. I enjoy the lifestyle I have now, I love my friends, but above all I love the fact that I am totally and openly myself without compromise and am not really bothered about people rejecting me for me being myself or for not wanting to get to know me.

This is why I don't post so much here. There was a time when people on these boards were my only support network and I will never forget that support or the people who reached out to me for they helped me to be where I am today. Today I'm more focussed on getting to the stage when I can actually be in places like Toronto or somewhere like California and meet people face to face. That to me is the success of the Internet, creating opportunities of meeting people face to face and sharing those moments of a life lived on your own terms with them doing the same.





domiguy -> RE: The Perils of Being Yourself (5/3/2010 6:53:40 AM)

I get it that people want to be their "authentic selves." I also get that many of us have learned how to operate when in public.

Even though I have heard that the majority of people pass gas, we try and not fart out loud when in the company of others. So we sometimes have even been known to suppress our gas which I understand can be deadly. ( I personally have not farted since I was 9 years old after my father informed me it was rude)

When out with company we tend not to make out at the dinner table even though we might feel a great affection for each other. It's called manners.

If you can't seem to check your shit at the door don't be surprised by the responses you might receive.

Just like the couple that was thrown off the bus because they chose to walk bitch on leash....This is no different.

Part of being an adult is to understand the ramifications of your actions. To suggest that you can live your life publicly in any manner you see fit and then have the nerve to complain about certain aspects that are not well received by that other community is naivety at it's worse.

You invite your boss and his wife over for dinner and you say, "Please Carl, don't get up, my slave will get you a glass of wine...By the way, it's a rather bold zinf which might pair very nicely with some gorgonzola or a blow job, you good?"


You just might be looking for a new job come Monday.



Mercnbeth -> RE: The Perils of Being Yourself (5/3/2010 7:13:30 AM)

quote:

I understand the OP completely and this is has been known to me for some years ever since November 2005 in Poland when I came out publicly and went from being a well-known public figure in Polish society to being a socially excluded rough sleeper within eight days.

This was never about me being transgendered, a successful artist, being kinky, or anything else - this was about me refusing to conform and 'fit in' and about me being me and being different. That is all it takes these days to find yourself to be on the wrong side of a community, of other people - all you need is to be perceived as being different.

tigreetsa,
We've found that most of the intolerant people claiming to be in a 'lifestyle' on-line who don't want anything other than social 'norms' represented in public are hypocritical and cowardly. They are self loathing and project all the whispered negative comments onto themselves. They just can't handle it. They wish they were as confident having the ability to be themselves, but can't handle it.

They hide behind fake persona and the anonymity of the internet. Often even their profile picture is stolen from some other source. They are clowns, amusing behind their clown make-up, usually lonely and scared. They are envious of people such as yourself strong enough to live your life as you choose and appreciating that accepting yourself is much more important than acquiring the acceptance of foolish clowns.



domiguy -> RE: The Perils of Being Yourself (5/3/2010 7:40:10 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

How did your friends react to finding out you are kinky


As WyldHrt can verify, there is no banner hung above the gate saying 'Submissive Masochistic Slut Lives Here'; our welcome mat doesn't say - 'Warning Sadist Inside - Enter At Your Own Risk'.


Ours is a; "Don't ask if you don't want to know the answer" philosophy. Fakes, phonies, hypocritical assholes claiming they accept anyone when in reality all they accept are people and/or lifestyles in which they participate or 'tolerate'; I look for opportunities to 'out' them and eliminate them from my personal life as much as possible.


I have found that people that say "Don't ask if you don't want to know" far too often are just insensitive blow hards that in fact like to flaunt their shit and "out" people that don't share their views as if they are "holier than though." These are people that should be avoided at all costs. They think that they are better than others when in fact it is just the opposite. They are tactless pieces of shit. No different or so often worse than those they are trying to expose.

My God, how difficult is it to offend someone vanilla by exposing them to this lifestyle? It makes people hypocrites because they don't think it is natural for a woman to be submissive? Or show reservations in accepting a D/s couple? What if the D/s couple are just plain ass creepy folk? Then you have the nerve to call them hypocrites for not enjoying your company when in all actuality they didn't like you because they thought you were just offensive people.

Many people want to instill their children with inner strength. They want their daughters to grow up to believe they can do anything that they desire and shouldn't place themselves behind any person, let alone some blow hard dom.

As we grow and reach maturity we realize that we all have our own path. However, it is naive to expect your path to be accepted by everyone. It just doesn't work that way.

Should we be tolerant of others? Absolutely. Should we explain to our children that there are alternate lifestyles? Sure.

But this is some fairly tricky shit. If you can't understand that then you should proceed full speed ahead and damn the consequences.

I wish you well in your pursuits.




Mercnbeth -> RE: The Perils of Being Yourself (5/3/2010 8:13:52 AM)

quote:

I have found that people that say "Don't ask if you don't want to know" far too often are just insensitive blow hards that in fact like to flaunt their shit and "out" people that don't share their views as if they are "holier than though." These are people that should be avoided at all costs.
You're right - it's only the result of misplaced pity that causes a need for the disclaimer, "do you really want to know?" I don't want to scare the inexperienced. I don't want to provide masturbation fodder for those ugly, self loathing souls vicariously living through others. The question provides them an out, to either crawl back under their rock, or go deeper within themselves to appreciate and respect that being tolerant and respectful of another's life choices does not require agreement.

It's an advanced and mature concept and most, especially the 'on-line experts', never can wrap their reasoning skills around that concept. I associate it to living a cowardly hidden life in fear of exposure. The only thing they know about themselves is the honest representation that they are too weak to live without caring about the need of approval from anyone. Usually they react by assigning the phrases "holier than though" or "better" to another person's representation about how they live their life; when the reality is the only reference to those qualitative terms comes from them.
quote:

It makes people hypocrites because they don't think it is natural for a woman to be submissive? Or show reservations in accepting a D/s couple?
Yes it does. The don't want or desire woman to be free. They desire woman to be free as long as that 'freedom' is compliant to their definition. I take the same position regarding a couple. I respect whatever dynamic that makes the people living it - happy. Accepting under personally assigned prejudicial conditions isn't accepting; representing such a position is hypocrisy.

quote:

Then you have the nerve to call them hypocrites for not enjoying your company when in all actuality they didn't like you because they thought you were just offensive people.
No - I call them hypocrites when they claim to be "friends" and then 'discover' on their own accord, or by direct question, our 'lifestyle' and then say they can no longer be our 'friends'. They shouldn't assume they got an invite into our bedroom and/or dungeon. Their hypocrisy is representing they were a 'friend' in the first place. We were no different and didn't change - they did. They set relationship 'qualifiers'. We had to meet their standard of normalcy to keep their friendship - those intolerant hypocritical people require loud and visible exposure.



quote:

They think that they are better than others when in fact it is just the opposite. They are tactless pieces of shit. No different than those they are trying to expose.
Quantifying "better" is left to those on the sidelines who narrate versus participate. Anyone with the strength of their convictions to confidently live their life however they choose is living admirably. Their example, whatever it is, representing themselves, serves two purposes.

The first is to serve as an example that 'it' (whatever it is) can be achieved and lived. Seeing the intolerant ramblings of on-line wannabes may be their only example they have access. Public displays of fun, happiness, affection, and a functional relationship serve to provide an example of reality they can relate to and try to achieve in their life if they desire to do so.

The other purpose is exposure. You'll never change the hypocrite, but their words expose their ugly, sad, and lonely lives. Being cowards, they have no other choice but to ridicule and mock a manner of living which they envy. It's clear and obvious to all who witness the process. Another worthy reason to be 'out'.

I know of nobody 'out' who thinks they are "better"; nor do I know anyone trying to be. They enjoy the freedom of being themselves. A worthy goal compared to the self loathing, envious, alternative position, needing to qualify the consequences of any experience instead of simply having a good time representing nothing more than exactly who they are; not caring if some cowardly one handed web surfer thinks the worse of them.

We're fortunate to enjoy the company of many people in our life who have arrived at that same position as us; often sharing a laugh at the expense of those that wish they could.



leadership527 -> RE: The Perils of Being Yourself (5/3/2010 8:28:19 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
The first is to serve as an example that 'it' (whatever it is) can be achieved and lived. Seeing the intolerant ramblings of on-line wannabes may be their only example they have access. Public displays of fun, happiness, affection, and a functional relationship serve to provide an example of reality they can relate to and try to achieve in their life if they desire to do so.
An example, I'd like to add, that I personally have appreciated. At least insofar as the authority dynamic part goes, you two have always been the inspiration and guidepost for Carol and I. As always, we have taken that which was applicable and used it while tossing away the rest as "not relevant to us". Were it not for you two, we would not be where we are now. So wait... my whole problem here is really YOUR fault. Damn you! *laughs*

quote:

We're fortunate to enjoy the company of many people in our life who have arrived at that same position as us; often sharing a laugh at the expense of those that wish they could.
And when I come down to visit (soon, we're doing the move to Seattle this Wednesday), I promise not to get all offended if you boss beth around... even if you actually expect her to obey. I'm sure I'll look on any other goings on that are less relevant to Carol and I with some degree of detached interest... you never know what might suddenly become relevant that wasn't previously.



daddysprop247 -> RE: The Perils of Being Yourself (5/3/2010 8:34:07 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

quote:

ORIGINAL: VampiresLair
It is always disheartening to learn that someone supposedly open minded cant handle what they see when it comes to someone elses dynamic. Especially someone you have known for quite some time, who all of a sudden pull the "Wait, you were serious about that?" card.
That sums it up in a nutshell. I was serious about the T part of TPE. I think their own world views just couldn't really comprehend that so they filtered the message down to something that made sense to them. I didn't understand that filtering process was in play. In the end, that sort of deeply seated world view mismatch is the most pernicious sort of communication problem to uncover because nobody even knows it's happening.


Jeff, so sorry for all the disappointment and heartache you and your carol are going through right now. unfortunately, the "mismatch" of worldviews you describe is depressingly common within this so-called lifestyle. my Master and i have dealt with similar misunderstandings with others that have led to sometimes annoying, sometimes painful, and always frustrating experiences. it was a shock to me to learn that the majority of people who speak...even passionately...about Master and slave, dominance and submission, control and rights, etc...do not truly believe in those concepts in any real-life sense. it is as you say above, a filtering and watering down to what they believe is reasonable and makes most logistic sense. and of course, what is still "fun" and sexually arousing.

when these people meet us face to face and realize that this is the way we really live, these are the things we really believe...through my Master's 9-5, a teenager in the house, family and bills and the flu and all....and that it has absolutely nothing to do with what is "hot" or "fun," they freak. i mean, they really really freak. and likewise, when we realize this couple we've been communicating with for months saw the word "slave" as a kinky pet name, and the word "Master" as someone who spanks and gives commands which are reasonable and convenient...we are once again disillusioned and saddened.

so just know that you guys are not alone in these issues.

...and just wanted to add, despite everything, we believe strongly in living authentic lives and being true to who we are always. this does not mean yelling from the rooftops that we are Master and slave, but it does mean being comfortable in our skin and making no attempts to hide or soften our everyday reality or beliefs.



Kana -> RE: The Perils of Being Yourself (5/3/2010 8:35:47 AM)

To the OP-Sorry you have been hurt. That sucks and I feel for you.

That said, here is my take, on how this goes, in my life-no one else's, just mine-and a few thoughts from my perch.
I try and live in reality as much as possible, not the wish fantasy land in my head where the world runs as I think it should.
In reality, I practice a few, ahem, persuasions, that the status quo finds at best questionable (Though they may think it's hot!), a few are gonna be indifferent about and a certain percentage of people are going to be horrified. That's life. I can't change them, and I no longer bother to try or explain. I'm to old to spend my spare time tilting at windmills. I have to expect that if I am open about some of my activities, that some people are going to offended, and that's a price I have to be willing to pay before I open up about said activities. If I am not willing to pay such a price (and I ain't), then perhaps I should be excercising discretion, which frankly, I think people should be doing anyhow.

I don't have to agee with someones right to judge my lifestyle, or how they judge it, but Ido need to accept the fact that they will be judging. And there are quite a few people who will are morally and emotionally offended at the idea of a woman as chattel, and would certainly react strongly if they saw her tied to horse, pleading for me to stop while I whipped the snot out of her. Sure, in a perfect world everyone would acept everyone no matter what, but that world ain'yt the one my feet are planted in.

Now maybe I am a prude, but I generally believe in old fashioned characteristics such as tact, respect etc...
I dont really care for watching extravagant public displays of affection* (get a room!) and I believe that there is a time and a place for everything. Just because I live a certain way I don't have to expect everyone to respect that, and just because I live in a place where one can be open about such things doesn't mean that it is polite or in my best interests to do so. Part of respecting others is respecting their right to disagree just as part of being polite is not putting others, especially those I care about and for, in a position where they have to judge. I mean hey, I can cover myself in feces and roam the streets wearing onky a thong and as long as I don't hurt anyone, nobody can legally stop me...but that don't mean it's not offensive and in very poor taste. The same things apply to the choices I make in my life.



The years have left me a low key guy. I don't shove my lifestyle in anyones throat and expect them to understand, like I did when I was maniac little teenage hippie deadhead. Instead I take the lessons learned from that childhood experience (That society likes to crush blatant misfits) and learned that discretion does not equal cowardice, that tact is me showing a respect for the others in my life and that not everything need be shared in a public forum.



*Unless its at a fetish club or swingers bar or appropriate place.



IronBear -> RE: The Perils of Being Yourself (5/3/2010 8:43:25 AM)

Jeff, Carol, blessings and good luck be with you on your move. Whilst Neets and I don't rub our lifestyle in the faces of others, we don't hide it either. We are probably more likely to be rejected because we are open about being Pagans that being involved in kink, and certainly we are rejected more often because of the 30 years difference between our ages. When I have a girl in a collar and guests are with us, unless they are in the know, all they see is a servant serving either a meal or afternoon tea which is easier for them to understand that the concept that said serving wench is a slave collared to BC or either one of us. decades ago I discovered that people were either going to be drawn to me or stay away, just as I am drawn to some and prefer to avoid others. Just chemistry in most cases. I'm actually pretty thankful of this in most cases because such things act as an excellent filter to save becoming cluttered with human dross. Even when some drop off when they learn more about us and I may even feel sad about loosing some of them, I am also thankful that the non comparability (for what ever reason) was discovered earlier rather then later. I just use such experiences to run checks to see that we are being true to ourselves and to try to become more discerning about those who we want to have closer to us. 



Kana -> RE: The Perils of Being Yourself (5/3/2010 8:51:32 AM)

double post



brainiacsub -> RE: The Perils of Being Yourself (5/3/2010 9:27:47 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

tigreetsa,
We've found that most of the intolerant people claiming to be in a 'lifestyle' on-line who don't want anything other than social 'norms' represented in public are hypocritical and cowardly. They are self loathing and project all the whispered negative comments onto themselves. They just can't handle it. They wish they were as confident having the ability to be themselves, but can't handle it.

They hide behind fake persona and the anonymity of the internet. Often even their profile picture is stolen from some other source. They are clowns, amusing behind their clown make-up, usually lonely and scared. They are envious of people such as yourself strong enough to live your life as you choose and appreciating that accepting yourself is much more important than acquiring the acceptance of foolish clowns.

Be careful, Merc. I am one of the most vocal critics of those who practice the "in your face" style of kink by violating social norms and then taking the "fuck you" position when people don't agree with them. It's not because I am hypocritical, cowardly or self loathing. My avatar pic is the real me and people who've met me in person will tell you that I am exactly as I present myself in these forums. I also happen to be mature, sane, healthy adult with lots of vanilla responsibilities and understand that my actions have consequences. There are lots of reasons why someone might object to public displays of kink. We don't all get to live your charmed life.



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