quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

That is your opinion based upon your filters. I do not share your opinion of the thread overall.

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

That is your opinion based upon your filters. I do not share your opinion of the thread overall.

That is your opinion based upon your filters and your lack of firsthand experience.

quote:

ORIGINAL: herfacechair
Obedience to my oath? Since WHEN did my refusal to use "because I was ordered to," as an explanation, constitute a "lack" of "obedience" towards my oath? Since WHEN did using my assessments of our threats as justification for what I'm doing; rather than resorting to "because I was following orders" BS, constitute my "lack" of obedience" towards my oath?

Let me remind you of what you said:

"This is just a personal thing of Mine that makes Me chuckle. Even though it is a Politics and Religion section, it's still a BDSM forum. I tend to find it funny that, as such, there tends to be a lack of connection about obedience. (You'd probably have to know Me better as a Dominant on that one.)" --LadyPact

Your statement was clear. Notice how you emphasized both "section" and "forum" in your first statement. You were trying to remind me that I was still posting on a BDSM forum, despite the nature of the section, I'm posting in. You were comparing two sections within this forum, you weren't comparing the military and BDSM.

The emphasis here is on the BDSM aspects of obedience. Considering that I couldn't be plainer in my explanation, which you quoted:

"After you read these two, go back to the last sentence of the first quote, that's how I see things when someone implies, or suggests, that I'm doing this because I'm ordered to do it. This will tell you why I didn't take the "following orders" approach. The number of times I wanted to do it? ZERO" -- herfacechair

It should've ben plainly obvious that there was no issues with my abiding to my oath.

You should've read all my posts on this thread to gain a better understanding of my position. You can't truly understand my position unless you've read everything that I've posted here, or elsewhere on this message board. You can't begin to insist that I understand your position until you understand MINE. Doing the later would've saved you from saying most of what you said here... it would've caused you to say something different.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

That is your opinion based upon your filters. I do not share your opinion of the thread overall.

That is your opinion based upon your filters and your lack of firsthand experience.

Sooooo, you suggest I believe the OP's questionable first hand experience over the first hand experience of people I have known and trusted for decades?

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

Willbeur, perhaps you are purposely being obtuse. What the OP has written is NOT consistent with everything coming out of Iraq. As I have stated multiple times, my filters have been largely influenced by people I know and trust, that have served and 'come out of Iraq'.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

Well now that you have admitted you are being purposely obtuse.........I can ignore your posts! Thank you!

quote:


thompsonx: it is a crime to even discuss mutiny...knocking an officer on his ass in a combat zone could easily be construed as such...

Mutiny, from the UCMJ:

quote:

ORIGINAL: UCMJ

a) Any person subject to this chapter who--

(1) with intent to usurp or override lawful military authority, refuses, in concert with any other person, to obey orders or otherwise do his duty or creates any violence or disturbance is guilty of mutiny;

(2) with intent to cause the overthrow or destruction of lawful civil authority, creates, in concert with any other person, revolt, violence, or disturbance against that authority is guilty of sedition;

WHERE, in these two quotes, does it say that an officer was DISOBEYED?

quote:

ORIGINAL: herfacechair

I'm here on R and R from Iraq. Ben deployed there with 1 ID. Figured I'd start a thread to answer questions you guys may have about what's going on there.

quote:

We've accomplished what we came here to do... set up a government that can govern, and a military/police force that could provide security for the people... and enforce its laws.

quote:

Some of the opposition here claimed to have served in the military. Their posts contradict their claims. Pointing out that fact, the fact that what they say paints them as never having served, allows me to unmask them, and expose them for what they really are. The longer someone tries to stay in a debate with me, the more I'm going to destroy their credibility.

quote:

thompsonx: As you point out if one gives one's oath to serve in the military one does not speak of knocking officers on their asses as something that should be done.

First things first, tell that to the Vietnam Veterans that I've talked to in the past.

I am sure you have memorized all of thier "war stories" and believe every one of them.
Officers that gave out stupid, but lawyful orders, despite common sense or what wisdom from more experienced service members dictated, which lead to people getting injured or killed, ended up getting knocked on their asses.


I am sure you believe that...why don't you try it sometime and see how fast you find yourself in the brig.

If you were a Vietnam Veteran, this wouldn't seem alien to you. The Vietnam War isn't the only war where this happened at. One of the soldiers that I know, a junior NCO, was ready to punch a senior officer in the face for giving out a stupid order that lead to a close call. His orders were followed, then a close call happened.

Second, nowhere in the Oath of Enlistment does it talk about what you talk about:

"I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God" -- Oath of Enlistment

So the part about obeying the ucmj (where it says it is an offense to "knock an officer on his ass") doesn't count when you think the officer is wrong.
You really are in a strange army but then maybe that is how things work in "your army"

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

Well PA, even though the OP's posts are about as mad as yours, at least you are more succinct!

It's funny to read the new pages on this thread so soon after having dinner with GD and several of his former soldiers last night. Somehow we got on the discussion of the surreal aspect of dead bodies during their times together. How the only one that didn't stink horribly was the one guy that blew himself up via car bomb. They remember that it smelled faintly like sweet BBQ'd pulled pork.

The sad part of the last week was spending time with one family member that is still suffering from anxiety and insomnia since his retirement.  He served 20 years in the Marines and then another 18 as an Iowa State Trooper. One of the most together, calm, and disciplined people I know but something about his time in Vietnam has occasionally popped up to disturb him. Another uncle, similar service, never any problems that I am aware of.

Not unlike the difference in GD and one of my brothers. My brother changed after his last tour in Iraq and not for the better. GD, aside from disliking loud noises now, has changed very little and he spent considerably more time there.

I don't know whether the OP is full of shit or not. I don't really care. The only thing I find bothersome is that he voices yet another version of 'one true way'ism. I believe THAT is the reason for the hostility he has received. He believes that NO ONE else can possibly know anything, or at least nearly as much, as he. He has consistently made every attempt to destroy and belittle anyone else's opinions or experiences. I do not care whether he believes anything I type. It is MY life, MY life experiences, and more importantly, the life experiences of people I love and respect. He has no influence over my feelings towards them and what they've done, my pride in the human beings they are or my deep gratefulness in their service and more so in their safe return home.

Sadly, if indeed he is a soldier in service to our country, he has only succeeded in making a fool of himself. Proving once again, that just being a soldier does NOT make a person a good person or one worthy of respect.

Your response to the thread is way off base. HFC is not in any way saying his way is the one true way. He is reporting FACTS that are very difficult to find in the traditional media. He does not attempt to belittle or destroy anyones opinions unless he is attacked by someone who obviously is lying about their experiences.

The internet is a great resource, but unless you know and have lived a subject firsthand, you cannot fake it with someone who has. thompsonx is so obviously lying that he deserves every bit of ridicule he gets. Of course that is his mo on virtually all topics, so it shouldnt be a surprise.

quote:

ORIGINAL: cassandria

Nowhere, and no way, is Iraq, or any other Middle Eastern country, prepared to uphold a government based upon democracy.

They simply haven't evolved to the point where the people are appreciative, or understanding of it.

Would you be so kind as to explane why you think this is true and why you think that a "republic" or a "democracy" is "more evolved"


Oh, and their religion? That may have *something* to do with it as well.

Is "christianity" somehow more democratic than "islam"?

And I wouldnt expect any arab, after what they've experienced, to do anything other than seemingly embrace whatever the occupying country decides is going to happen.

Kinda like the germans,japanese and the italians embraced the allies?

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy



Are you serious?

The HFC is a government worker.  He is a writer for the government.  He also is unable to get along with others.

He is a propaganda agent for the government.   He is embeded media.  He is a dis-info agent.

He serves Goldman Sachs,  JPM.

All wars are the doing of the central bank.

He is a PAID government writer.

Think about that.  He is PAID to convince you that killing Arabs is a good thing.  Millions of dead Arabs.

He has done nothing for your freedom.   He serves to further the power of Goldman/JPM.   He serves to further empower transnational corporations.

He also has a huge ego.

Nearly every replay to this thread has been non-government approved.

Arab usury laws do not allow central banking.  Iraq was invaded because they began to sell oil in EUROS- not the required dollars.  Dollars are backed by nothing... nothing but bombs and troops.

Iran also does not allow a central bank.

The whole purpose of wars are to get the central bank hedge funds to gut the country- the people and their resources.  Corporations have personhood and have more rights then you do.

quote:

It is just so much blah, blah, blah. I urge posters not to play his deceitful game.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

It is just so much blah, blah, blah. I urge posters not to play his deceitful game.

You and I agree on so many things but here we differ in the extreme. I feel that posters who find inconsistancies in this poser's position challange him vigorously.
When his mindless ramboesque bullshit is shown for what it is he will be laughed off the board