RE: Slave/Submissive not the Same or are they?

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RE: Slave/Submissive not the Same or are they? - 4/10/2006 7:35:40 PM

TemptingNviceSub

Posts: 3054
Joined: 10/1/2005
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Ach!!..ok, have not read all the responses..but my take on it is this..once again this community we call BDSM..D/s..M/s..whatever..is trying to reach a consensus of definition..not gonna happen..everyones views vary...their own interpersonal relationships affect their definitions..and that is as it should be!...be well...Tempting

(in reply to knees2you)

Post #: 81

RE: Slave/Submissive not the Same or are they? - 4/10/2006 7:51:50 PM

orfunboi

Posts: 1223
Joined: 10/22/2005
Status: offline

Slaves are people who identify as slaves and submissives are the ones who identify as submissives...if it is really important to you, to find out what someone is, just ask them, they will probibly tell you.

ps...this wasn't supposed to be a reply to anyone specific, just to the thread in general.

< Message edited by orfunboi -- 4/10/2006 7:53:15 PM >

(in reply to TemptingNviceSub)

Post #: 82

RE: Slave/Submissive not the Same or are they? - 4/10/2006 8:12:11 PM

CERCKL

Posts: 1039
Joined: 3/4/2006
Status: offline

quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: CERCKL

My personal situation, I have only one name for lotus, that is lotus, the name I gave her when she first recognized me as owning her...she is not my slave, my submissive, pet or anything but my lotus...
C

............this is some food for thought.

Level

I am curious...as I tend to respect your insight and observations...why is this food for thought?

C

_____________________________

AND I AM TOO AN ASSHOLE, I HAVE REFERENCES!!!

"Please, please, please believe me, I really am an asshole. All that Enlightenment and Higher Learning shit was all a ruse."

(in reply to Level)

Post #: 83

RE: Slave/Submissive not the Same or are they? - 4/10/2006 8:21:46 PM

ICGsteve

Posts: 202
Joined: 2/2/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TemptingNviceSub

Ach!!..ok, have not read all the responses..but my take on it is this..once again this community we call BDSM..D/s..M/s..whatever..is trying to reach a consensus of definition..not gonna happen..everyones views vary...their own interpersonal relationships affect their definitions..and that is as it should be!...be well...Tempting

And just why should it be that we leave words with no agreed upon meanings? Is it because a lot of people like the fact that they cannot be pinned down, that they can change who they are as much as they want and still call themselves what they have always called themselves, or what sounds cool? If so this is an exercise in evasion, a speaking as if they are something and believe in something yet in reality it is all mumbo-jumbo, they believe in nothing and are acting as if they don't know who they are. I suppose that this is fine, but it is hard to listen to this line combined with the demand that refusing to define the words is an act of moral superiority.

< Message edited by ICGsteve -- 4/10/2006 8:25:51 PM >

(in reply to TemptingNviceSub)

Post #: 84

RE: Slave/Submissive not the Same or are they? - 4/10/2006 8:32:51 PM

Level

Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CERCKL

quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: CERCKL

My personal situation, I have only one name for lotus, that is lotus, the name I gave her when she first recognized me as owning her...she is not my slave, my submissive, pet or anything but my lotus...
C

............this is some food for thought.

Level

I am curious...as I tend to respect your insight and observations...why is this food for thought?

C

Good evening, C..... I found it food for thought, in that you place a premium on the name you gave her, and in what she is (and what you are), rather than in "titles"... that meant a lot to me. What we are and what we do matters the most.

I think Knight of Mists said something pertinent as well recently... something along the lines of "you can use any title you want, it's what you do"...

Your words spurred me to decide to rework my profile (in progress), and to dig deeper. Usually good things, right? *grins*....

And as for "tending to respect" my "insight and observations"....... thank you, and consider the feeling mutual.

Level

(in reply to CERCKL)

Post #: 85

RE: Slave/Submissive not the Same or are they? - 4/10/2006 8:35:09 PM

Scarlettred78

Posts: 9
Joined: 1/13/2005
Status: offline

I have noticed especially online a lot of information over load. I have met people in real life I would qualify as a slave in my mind. Though they called themselves submissive, and I have seen the other side of the coin where people called them self a slave, and in my mind had no clue as to what is even was. I don't get caught up in all the online Symantec games people play or try to match wits with the "DR Phills" of BDSM out there. I would go with how my mind and how my heart feels. I have found that other people don't have to deal with my life or it's consequences, only I am responsible for the choices I make, and if I am happy in my role, that is wonderful, if not what can I do to improve myself to improve the situation? Follow your heart and mind and your body will fall into place.

(in reply to Arpig)

Post #: 86

RE: Slave/Submissive not the Same or are they? - 4/10/2006 10:05:05 PM

amayos

Posts: 1553
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: New England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: wytchywoman

quote:

ORIGINAL: maybeican

There is a total difference between a slave and a submissive. A slave devotes their life to the One they serve. A submissive trys to control from the bottom.

Whoa! That's a sweeping generalizaion about submissives and one I totally disagree with. While it may be true that some submissives at some time may try to "top from the bottom", the exact same thing can be said about some people who claim to be slaves.

I'm going to cut this short because I need to go do some deep breathing exercises.

Agreed. There is a considerable degree of masquerade in all designations.

(in reply to wytchywoman)

Post #: 87

RE: Slave/Submissive not the Same or are they? - 4/10/2006 10:38:13 PM

SusanofO

Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline

I am going to sleep but gave this thread a quick read-through just now; I just want to say before i do that - that I am not sure people here may ever realize just how valuable some of their comments are - or how many people might be reading them. This has been a pretty clarifying thread for me. Appreciate it. - Susan

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to caitlyn)

Post #: 88

RE: Slave/Submissive not the Same or are they? - 4/10/2006 10:53:40 PM

catize

Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: maybeican
A submissive trys to control from the bottom.

In negotiations between a potential dominant and submissive, the power exchange has not yet taken place. It is NOT topping from the bottom, it is discussion between two people with equal power; top to top.
Since the point where I offered and DG accepted my submission, I have obeyed his will in all things.

_____________________________

"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise

(in reply to maybeican)

Post #: 89

RE: Slave/Submissive not the Same or are they? - 4/10/2006 11:01:25 PM

enthralled

Posts: 249
Joined: 9/13/2005
From: Nashville, Tn
Status: offline

I found an article on this that I like . . .

quote:

. . . many words used within a community can mean different things to different people based on the 'age' of the person, their background and the common usage of the area they live in.

- http://www.steel-door.com/Submissive_vs_Slave.html

Respectfully,
enthralled

_____________________________

A man never discloses his own character so clearly as when he describes another's.-Jean Paul Richter

(in reply to catize)

Post #: 90

RE: Slave/Submissive not the Same or are they? - 4/10/2006 11:23:20 PM

slave4Darby3d

Posts: 106
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline

I do believe there is a difference between submissive and slave.

I am submissive by nature. It is the kind of the "what" I am, if you will. I ascribe certain tendencies and behaviors to this and find myself most comfortable under the direction of /in a relationship with a Dominant male.

I am a slave by ownership. It is the "who" of "what" I am. I dedicate myself solely to the desire and direction of my Master. I offered myself as a slave to Him to be my Master. To me it is the ultimate of my submission. Upon his acceptance all ways became his way, without exception. I live to please him in every way, every day.

Hope that helps. Your results may vary...

(in reply to knees2you)

Post #: 91

RE: Slave/Submissive not the Same or are they? - 4/10/2006 11:32:06 PM

ownedgirlie

Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline

Great article, enthralled. It addresses some of the frequent questions that come up in this forum, having to do with several subjects. While i believe one can be a slave who does not live with her (his) Master, just about everything in that article is dead-on, in my view.

i find that website to be quite informative. Thanks for sharing.

(in reply to enthralled)

Post #: 92

RE: Slave/Submissive not the Same or are they? - 4/11/2006 12:05:57 AM

SusanofO

Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline

This is excellent information - I really needed and appreciated reading this, enthralled. - Susan

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to enthralled)

Post #: 93

RE: Slave/Submissive not the Same or are they? - 4/11/2006 12:41:03 AM

CERCKL

Posts: 1039
Joined: 3/4/2006
Status: offline

quote:

I found it food for thought, in that you place a premium on the name you gave her, and in what she is (and what you are), rather than in "titles"... that meant a lot to me. What we are and what we do matters the most.

I have tried not to label lotus...is she my slave? sub? bottom? All I know for certain is she is lotus...the labels fall short of our reality together...

quote:

Your words spurred me to decide to rework my profile (in progress), and to dig deeper. Usually good things, right? *grins*....

And as for "tending to respect" my "insight and observations"....... thank you, and consider the feeling mutual.

Level

I appreciate the fact that something I had stated might actually be a catalyst for you or somebody else to dig deeper...see I'm not ALWAYS a smartass...

C

_____________________________

AND I AM TOO AN ASSHOLE, I HAVE REFERENCES!!!

"Please, please, please believe me, I really am an asshole. All that Enlightenment and Higher Learning shit was all a ruse."

(in reply to Level)

Post #: 94

RE: Slave/Submissive not the Same or are they? - 4/11/2006 1:45:50 AM

sorbet1

Posts: 1
Joined: 4/7/2006
Status: offline

A submissive chooses to submit, negotiates her submission, and willingly submits. Her pleasure somes from the act of submission.

(in reply to amayos)

Post #: 95

RE: Slave/Submissive not the Same or are they? - 4/11/2006 1:58:07 AM

SusanofO

Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline

I appreciate you bringing this up - because I do think it's what two people think they mean to eachother that counts in the long run. It's just that -
it seems to be a topic that comes up so much on these boards - it seems most people really need and deserve - that 'clarity' upfront - even if :

Two people are still then - going to have to find out just what it is they "really mean by that" when getting to eachother better - and even if - one or both or them could turn out to be "fake", a "wannabe" or just a person who is - bottom line - unsure just what it is they really want -but the chasm between thetwo people's preferences is just too wide for one (or both) of them to bridge (and it might be unfair to expect them to 'adapt' to eachohter - it's just too much of a "stretch").

Or maybe(gasp -could it happen? - Yes, I believe it can

: People who are really being as "honest" as they can be and "for real" and they find someone they really "click" with and have decided (if they are somewhat experinced or have thought it through) what they can "make allowances for" (if anything) - in advance what are "deal breakers."

In any case, I'm not alll that comfortable leaving that "label" a "completely open" question (and imagine trying to do that would confuse people, and some would probably, I imagine,out-right just refuse (maybe rightly so) to not get an answer from people re:"Which way" one's "inclinations" lean, whether it's because it's "just the norm" or because they really think it means that is a "guarantee" the other person actually is what they say they are - or not.

There are honest people, dis-honest people and people who are perhaps thought of as dishonest who are doing the "best they can" (it just happens to not be 'good enough' as far as "clarity" goes - for someone else).

I know I've heard of subs that then become slaves and all about how that can be a "natural progression" - I think that would be wonderful and seems like something to make a personal goal - but- what if that doesn't happen? It may well happen- but what if it doesn't? Might be best to say: I am a sub now, maybe a "slave" later - **and btw (maybe most importantly)- here are the definitions of those terms I use - are those the definitions you use?**

And if the other person "doesn't know" (or appears not to know) what definitons they use - well, I wouldn't let myself get riled up (normally) about that - unless they've portrayed themsellf as someone "with vast experience" or something - they might not be stupid or insincere - it might actually mean, at times, that they've thought about it and cannot honestly tell you for sure. Maybe they need more information (reading material or experiences)-to be able to decide.

And then there are,I imagine, maybe many who just don't care about "definitions" -then great - and good luck to them too (unless the other person does care, I guess).

Even if the true meaning of these terms is "up in the air', in some 'final analysis' for some (maybe for many) - thinking about this at least forced me to re-clarify it in my own head as far as mostly leaning one way or the other - for now. Glad for that anyway. - Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 4/11/2006 2:56:01 AM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to CERCKL)

Post #: 96

RE: Slave/Submissive not the Same or are they? - 4/11/2006 3:42:47 AM

feastie

Posts: 1793
Joined: 6/4/2004
Status: offline

This thread is five pages and counting that no common definition is correct. At best, a common definition is very general. My former Master called me his slave, but I wasn't without choices, I was allowed my opinions and if I disagreed with something...no matter what it was, we discussed it. Many times, I followed his wishes, other times, he agreed to mine. By common definition, this is not slavery.

So why would he call me his slave? Because I was absolutely and irrevocably his. Because his mere presence made me a quivering mess (oh, that was great, btw).
Because complete and implicit trust existed between us.

On a side note...just because something was done a certain way in the past, doesn't mean that it shouldn't evolve.

(in reply to ICGsteve)

Post #: 97

RE: Slave/Submissive not the Same or are they? - 4/11/2006 8:08:53 AM

truesub4u

Posts: 2949
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CERCKL

I appreciate the fact that something I had stated might actually be a catalyst for you or somebody else to dig deeper...see I'm not ALWAYS a smartass...

C

Grinz.....decides not to go there.... cutting CERCKL a little slack today.... thinking of making today ..."Be nice to CERCKL day"...

.....LOL

_____________________________

Wisdom is knowing what to do next, Skill is knowing how to do it, and Virtue is doing it.

(in reply to CERCKL)

Post #: 98

RE: Slave/Submissive not the Same or are they? - 4/11/2006 9:32:16 AM

darklilwolf

Posts: 8
Joined: 4/10/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: twicehappy

Does a slave have recourse to obeying orders they do not care for? Absolutely, they can always choose to return their collar.

this one disagrees with that state ment, a slave is owen though and though they do not have that option of walking away that is the biggest diferents between a sub, and slave a sub yes may return their coller at any time but a slave on the other hand can not just walk away and return the coller with out her/his Masters permishion. and the said Master has every right to say no. that is this one opinion

< Message edited by darklilwolf -- 4/11/2006 9:37:15 AM >

(in reply to twicehappy)

Post #: 99

RE: Slave/Submissive not the Same or are they? - 4/11/2006 2:41:34 PM

ICGsteve

Posts: 202
Joined: 2/2/2005
Status: offline

What does it say about the "BDSM community" that it cannot manage to get even the most basic of terms (slave-submissive) connected to generally agreed upon meanings, and that the one thing that did get done (Safe and Sane) sunk deeply into paranoia? What ever it says, it ain't good.

(in reply to darklilwolf)

Post #: 100

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