RE: Slave/Submissive not the Same or are they?

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RE: Slave/Submissive not the Same or are they? - 4/10/2006 10:57:58 AM

Posts: 249
Joined: 9/13/2005
From: Nashville, Tn
Status: offline

i have never been 'owned'. I'm also one of 'those' who believe that *i* personally can only say i have a slave-heart and cannot call myself a slave until the fact that i AM owned, but that is JUST me.
I have encountered those who call themselves slaves, are in M/s relationships, yet have limits/conditions which were literally written into thier contracts during the initial Master/slave negotiation- to each thier own definition.
Perhaps this is another case of "what box do i fit into?" or "Where is my label?"

Respectfully,
enthralled

_____________________________

A man never discloses his own character so clearly as when he describes another's.-Jean Paul Richter

(in reply to mixielicous)

RE: Slave/Submissive not the Same or are they? - 4/10/2006 11:44:24 AM

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quote:

Perhaps this is another case of "what box do i fit into?" or "Where is my label?"

I think definitions are both good and bad...they can lead to self-discovery, recognizing who we are, who we are becoming...by recognizing our selves with in terms, we can grasp these things which are unseen. On the other hand, they can distract us from ourselves and be used as a lazy way to identify the familiar, to place things, people, situations into our perceptions of what we accept and have no need to think or pursue further...stereotypes if you will.
I recall from school reading where it was important to certain of the Judaic mystics, naming things, which was why the earlier story in Genesis of the creation Adam standing beside God naming the creatures was so important...not only did it show Adam's responsibility and dominion over the rest of creation but primarily things do not exist until named. Once something is named, defined, it is...
My personal situation, I have only one name for lotus, that is lotus, the name I gave her when she first recognized me as owning her...she is not my slave, my submissive, pet or anything but my lotus...being symbolic of the soul, of creation, of being awakening to enlightenment...that is who she is, is becoming...
So, I do have labels...they serve purpose as long as one also understands the meaning behind the other's usage as well...Tower of Babel, LOL.

C

_____________________________

AND I AM TOO AN ASSHOLE, I HAVE REFERENCES!!!

"Please, please, please believe me, I really am an asshole. All that Enlightenment and Higher Learning shit was all a ruse."

(in reply to enthralled)

RE: Slave/Submissive not the Same or are they? - 4/10/2006 11:46:14 AM

Posts: 1283
Joined: 4/6/2006
From: Boston area, Massachusetts
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i do have a contract, but i wouldnt say it really has limitations on my behalf. it doesnt set any hard limits for me. it omits 2 this yes, sharing, because W/we are monogmous, and that these duties wont interfere with roles of wife/mother, as i am neither. my contract is basically a written statement of my loyalty.

(in reply to enthralled)

RE: Slave/Submissive not the Same or are they? - 4/10/2006 12:10:10 PM

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To nobody in particular ... every time any form of this topic comes up, it always turns into an intolerant, ranking system.

Submissives feel this ... slaves feel this ... submissives hold this back ... slaves give this ... submissives top from the bottom ... slaves, yadda, yadda ... it's all a bunch of bullshit.

If a vanilla person made some of the comments in this thread, the same people that actually did make them here, would be griping about how intolerant everyone is of WIITWD.

(in reply to mixielicous)

RE: Slave/Submissive not the Same or are they? - 4/10/2006 12:18:26 PM

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From: Boston area, Massachusetts
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quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

If a vanilla person made some of the comments in this thread, the same people that actually did make them here, would be griping about how intolerant everyone is of WIITWD.

i dont understand this statement

(in reply to caitlyn)

RE: Slave/Submissive not the Same or are they? - 4/10/2006 12:19:53 PM

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Joined: 4/6/2006
From: Boston area, Massachusetts
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that is quite beautiful. i did ask Him to name me.

(in reply to CERCKL)

RE: Slave/Submissive not the Same or are they? - 4/10/2006 12:34:43 PM

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Joined: 3/4/2006
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quote:

that is quite beautiful. i did ask Him to name me.

Thank you...she didn't ask actually in my situation, it was appropriate, actually the name came to me when we were still speaking on the phone, then when I met her and saw the tat of a lotus on the back of her right hand I knew if she was actually mine, that was who she was...the first r/t meeting was for coffee and I knew who she was instantly and she came straight towards me...
Anyway, I could speak of her quite at length...I will be tresenting the desire for her to change her legal name when I trust she is prepared but her family knows that is what I call her and my son only knows her by that name.
She is MY lotus...
C

_____________________________

AND I AM TOO AN ASSHOLE, I HAVE REFERENCES!!!

"Please, please, please believe me, I really am an asshole. All that Enlightenment and Higher Learning shit was all a ruse."

(in reply to mixielicous)

RE: Slave/Submissive not the Same or are they? - 4/10/2006 12:35:18 PM

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What a great topic

- which must be why it's been DONE TO DEATH!

I nominate it, along with its sister subject "What's the Difference Between a Top, a Dominant and Master/Mistress?", to have their very own forums.

While we are at it how about separate forums for; "Gasp! - My life partner of the last five (years/days) turned out to be an arsehole." and "Whaaaa! I am getting too many / not enough emails." and "Are Pros Whores?" and "My Kink's better than your Kink!" and "I'm just a slave who can't say NO." and "Why is everyone on this site a fake except for me?".

The important question is - who pissed in my tea this morning?

Z.

Film at eleven.

_____________________________

"Before enlightenment, chop wood and carry water. After enlightenment, chop wood and carry water." (proverb)

(in reply to mixielicous)

RE: Slave/Submissive not the Same or are they? - 4/10/2006 12:38:36 PM

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Joined: 4/2/2006
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to me the difference is in levels of commitment in a relationship, slave being more commited or a deeperlevel than sub, same goes for Master/Dom

in my opinion to be a master one has to have a sub accepting him as such and becoming his slave

(in reply to Zensee)

RE: Slave/Submissive not the Same or are they? - 4/10/2006 12:47:38 PM

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Joined: 1/22/2006
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To me, a submissive is what i am... it's how i define it.. and it's what makes me who i am.

What i view as an act of submission, others may find it more of a slave type action.

For me, the difference is that a slave is in complete servitute to a master.

A submissive is willing to bend to the will of a Dom.

(in reply to knees2you)

RE: Slave/Submissive not the Same or are they? - 4/10/2006 1:25:26 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mixielicous

quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

If a vanilla person made some of the comments in this thread, the same people that actually did make them here, would be griping about how intolerant everyone is of WIITWD.

i dont understand this statement

That's her way of saying she's a bi-poly slave dominant.

(in reply to mixielicous)

RE: Slave/Submissive not the Same or are they? - 4/10/2006 1:31:49 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy
That's her way of saying she's a bi-poly slave dominant.

Hey hey hey, there's only one of them round these here parts. ;)

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to cloudboy)

RE: Slave/Submissive not the Same or are they? - 4/10/2006 1:35:16 PM

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quote:

The important question is - who pissed in my tea this morning?

I was going to...but felt lazy, so I had my pit do it...but we do have some nice baked goods for you :-)
C

_____________________________

AND I AM TOO AN ASSHOLE, I HAVE REFERENCES!!!

"Please, please, please believe me, I really am an asshole. All that Enlightenment and Higher Learning shit was all a ruse."

(in reply to Zensee)

RE: Slave/Submissive not the Same or are they? - 4/10/2006 1:44:24 PM

Posts: 1283
Joined: 4/6/2006
From: Boston area, Massachusetts
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: mixielicous

quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

If a vanilla person made some of the comments in this thread, the same people that actually did make them here, would be griping about how intolerant everyone is of WIITWD.

i dont understand this statement

That's her way of saying she's a bi-poly slave dominant.

HA i would have NEVER guessed

(in reply to cloudboy)

RE: Slave/Submissive not the Same or are they? - 4/10/2006 1:53:15 PM

Posts: 25
Joined: 3/25/2006
From: southern Minnesota
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: maybeican

There is a total difference between a slave and a submissive. A slave devotes their life to the One they serve. A submissive trys to control from the bottom.

Really wrong -- ImHO, and by your own words, a "Bottom" is the one who sets things up in many ways to control "from the BOTTOM". But heck, even someone who was in a true slave relationship -- when with a new partner NEEDS to control aspects of their safety and well-being.
It's part of growing in trust for some, and has nothing to do with the individual's capacity or capability !!

(in reply to maybeican)

RE: Slave/Submissive not the Same or are they? - 4/10/2006 2:00:01 PM

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Joined: 7/29/2005
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to me the difference is elemental.
a 'bottom' can refuse any command at any time. total response control.
a 'submissive' might ponder the decision and use a safeword. limited response control.
a 'slave' simply complies, and has given up the right of choice. no response control.

(in reply to enthralled)

RE: Slave/Submissive not the Same or are they? - 4/10/2006 2:46:37 PM

Posts: 25
Joined: 3/25/2006
From: southern Minnesota
Status: offline

also to "maybeican"
You wrote: " .... My original comment was to the point. The reason for this, is I wanted to express the delusion most people have about the slave/submissive debates. Most people think a slave is a mindless door mat. This is so far from the truth. A submissive comes to the point in their life where they learn to grow in that submission. They grow to the point of becoming a slave. Most slaves are very intelligent and articulate in how they portray themselves. Giving up the control because they have found the One that excepts their destiny. Slavery is not for everyone. Submission is easier for a natural submissive to grow with. They have some control. Alot of submissives do top from the bottom; at certain times. More power to them. The world needs submissives and slaves, just like it needs Dominates.
So I recant the general comment I made and replace it with this.
A slave is one who has no choice but to follow their destiny.
A submissive can grow either way. "

reply:

Not all submissives are even capable of being a slave. And some real time slaves can't be submissives, believe it or not.
           Two other points.
This "bottom / submissive / slave" thing ---
Like many, I used to think it was some kind of continuum -- like a linear sort of growth thing.
     It Is Not.

    Slaves and submissives can be entirely different creatures. Outward appearences can look the same. They may share some traits. Even many traits. But I have met submissives with more of a soul to please than some "self-proclaimed" slaves. I have met slaves in real time relationships that function like ghosts ... Their "pleasing" is limited to following orders and enduring pain.
   Yet I have met active submissives who use every aspect of their being to serve their Sir / their Dominant, and to please Him / Her.
You tell me who is more "committed" !!!!

Then, there are those people along the submissive bend who are totally capable of being slaves One Day with the right One.
And still yet -- are people who call themselves "slaves" but aren't even in a relationship ( makes me laugh my head off) -- however when these "slaves" are with certain "Dominant-sided" persons, there is no "chemistry" -- no trust. No slave in them. -- At least Not for that "master" anyway... !!!!

Really !
the terms "Master" and "slave" can only be used honestly and fairly within the specific dynamics of a true relationship.
Until such time as a "slave" is owned -- and whether or not she /he has been a "slave" before -- she/he reverts back to being someone on the "submissive" side of things   -- With ONLY a Possibility of being a slave to someOne -- someday!

Gosh, I hate the games some people play!
"i'm Your girl Master! please beat me and use me. then in two hours i need to be home to make dinner for my hubby."
I used to run into guys (doms ?) who expected me to be just like that woman in my example.
They would insist that I was the phoney here....
(rolling my eyes)

(in reply to mixielicous)

RE: Slave/Submissive not the Same or are they? - 4/10/2006 3:22:36 PM

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Joined: 11/16/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: knees2you

People say that there is a difference between
Submissives and Slaves, but what I want to know is
Either way You are doing what was told Correct.
Is that right?

Even a Master or Mistress who have a Slave
would still talk to them about wanting to
do something to them, right?

From My understanding and experience a slave has no say in the matter after the intial slave contract is negotiated...whereas a submissive does. A submissive will have some or a lot of imput into scenes.

_____________________________

be safe and smile
purrrs kitty
(=^.^=)
www.misskittys-scratchingpost.com

(in reply to knees2you)

RE: Slave/Submissive not the Same or are they? - 4/10/2006 3:30:39 PM

bignipples2share

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Joined: 4/19/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: badpaliden

As I understand it a sub holds back/retaines the ability to deside what will/or won't be done to them in a set time period..and expect to have any limits stated and argeed/negotioated to, respected and that negotations are renewed usualy in a set time frame.

I've been told that this is topping from the bottom.

(in reply to badpaliden)

RE: Slave/Submissive not the Same or are they? - 4/10/2006 3:33:32 PM

Level

Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: PhoenixLM

You might be a dominant and bottom I have met slaves who are expert tops. This does not make either person a switch.

Some would disagree with that statement; I'll only say that at the minimum, they are switching.

(in reply to PhoenixLM)

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