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RE: Why Do So Many Mistresses Want Money First?


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RE: Why Do So Many Mistresses Want Money First? - 6/18/2010 8:57:55 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		Please quit messing up My font.  LOL.

quote:

ORIGINAL: naughtynick81

LadyPact
As I explained, the favour comes from them doing the asking out and being the ones who do the ground work to create the situation at first hand. Does this mean the other person owes them anything? Certainly not. As I also expressed earlier, no one owes the other anything, period.

A question?  Please tell Me that you're kidding.  There really is no ground work to "would you like to meet for lunch; I know a good Chinese place".  We're not talking about arranging to attend a concert together where you have to check the schedule for the show and purchase tickets in advance. 

quote:

To the second thing you said in this quote, I haven't seen a woman express this exactly in this thread but it has probably already been expressed earlier in this thread. I have only read up to page 10 and onwards...I think. But anyway, I have seen many many many women express elsewhere in this same type of topic that the man should pay because she is giving him company. This translates to that her company is superior to the other. There was a huge shit fight about it on the Plenty Of Fish site last year or so that had numerous women who kept coming up with that same opinion.

It might have been on Plenty Of Fish, but it hasn't been here.  I don't think any of the women on this thread have said it at least.  If they have and I missed it, I'll be happy to recant.
quote:

I may be misinterpreting you here LP, but are you meaning that when ever your friends invite you to hang out, you expect them to pay for everything? You and I live in totally different worlds. Where I come from, everyone is only responsible for themselves regardless who made the idea to meet at such and such.

I've already explained how I work things when visiting someone's home.  There are a good number of folks who are active on the forums that know I don't come empty handed.  If we meet at an event, everybody pays their own door tab.

quote:

Just saying, a person is having to face consequences for doing most of the work...such as doing the asking out.

Again, asking someone out isn't work. 

quote:

But if a man did that towards a woman, that means he is being a cheapskate or what someone else expressed in their words "a penny pinching tight-ass? right? They are being bitter and angry at women for doing so.

I've said on several occasions on this thread that I tend to pay for first meets that aren't at specific events.  I can't be any clearer on this than I already have.

quote:

I think a man is perfectly entitled to act negatively if a woman is showing signs of not wanting to pay her share. Such as looking the other way or walking out the door. This type of behaviour is blatantly rude. So why shouldn't a man be entitled to act and feel negative towards a woman who is being rude? It seems legitimate to me.

Then please act negatively towards those women whom you date who do so.  I can promise you that your argument is not with Me.

quote:

If you pay for their half, yes, it's validated to expect them to pay the tip. But when it's the other way around, I doubt that the women in this thread would have the same opinion.

I can promise you that I am not one of them.  I tip and I tip well.  Even more so if it wasn't My turn to pay the check in those situations where we trade off.



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RE: Why Do So Many Mistresses Want Money First? - 6/18/2010 9:15:48 PM   
naughtynick81


Posts: 890
Joined: 3/23/2007
Status: offline 		LadyPact

quote:

A question?  Please tell Me that you're kidding.  There really is no ground work to "would you like to meet for lunch; I know a good Chinese place".  We're not talking about arranging to attend a concert together where you have to check the schedule for the show and purchase tickets in advance.


Nope, not kidding at all. Let's say, 2 people who like each other more than a "friends liking". But to know if the other will agree to date you remains an open question. So how will this question be answered? Someone may hold back asking the other out because they may think they will get rejected. All in all, someone has to make the approach and do the asking out or else nothing will ever happen. Making this step and doing the asking out in my books is doing the work to create the situation at first hand.

And to add on of why are they doing the favour is because they are the ones risking themselves to rejection.

We can agree to disagree LP. But more than anything, I see the person who does the asking out is doing more effort than the person who is not. More effort means more work.


quote:

I can promise you that your argument is not with Me.


I can see that from your post. I think you are probably the most reasonable woman I have seen on this thread. Even that we may have a few disagreements.









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Profile   Post #: 302
RE: Why Do So Many Mistresses Want Money First? - 6/18/2010 9:49:49 PM   
LadyNTrainer


Posts: 1584
Joined: 5/20/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: naughtynick81
quote:

LadyNTrainer: If the dynamic a woman wants in her life is to feel special and cared for because the man takes her out on a date, she has the right to choose that and to communicate that clearly to prospective partners.


What a load of crud. I believe if a man feels the same sense of entitlement over women, he is likely to be seen as an idiot or someone who is not a "real man" in a social view. Why the double standard? What's the logic behind the double standard? There is no logic, that's the problem.


By the same logic, if the dynamic a man wants in his life is to be dominant and in charge, he has the right to advertise this on his profile and ask for only submissive women to contact him.  I will not personally want to contact him because I don't want to meet the relationship criteria that he is setting out for himself, but I will not deny that he has every right to set them and say what he wants in a partner.   Why would you deny the same right to a woman? 

It's not entitlement.  If you want a particular dynamic in your life - femdom, male dom, Gorean, switch, cougar and boytoy, lesbian, gay, gender transitioning, what have you - then you advertise for partners who also want that same dynamic.  Some people will be a good fit for what you want, and others won't be.  As long as you're honest and up front about the relationship dynamic you personally want and you aren't deceiving or scamming anyone, no one else has the right to say that you shouldn't want it.   Unless they're judgmental assholes.  Know anyone who fits that description?


quote:

Last time I checked, the majority of people (women AND men) who go on dates make effort to make themselves look good. Secondly, what you mentioned about "entertaining", some people can be really shy on dates. For example, if a woman is shy on a date and does not create or follow on all the interesting conversations, does that give the man the right to make her pay for her share or pay for everything


Boy, you sure do keep focusing on the money thing.  My point was that if anyone, male or female, is not very attractive or entertaining, then their chances of being courted and taken out on dates are pretty poor.  If you are attractive and entertaining, then you won't have much trouble getting people lined up around the block to take you out.  This is true whether you're male or female.


quote:

All and all, women like you need to stop blaming men for women's actions.


I'm not blaming men.  It's ridiculous to blame an entire gender.  That shoe never fits.   You're actually the one who is doing that.

What I am pointing out is that the behavior of blaming others for your own lack of dating success, especially an entire group of people who don't all act or think alike, is seriously fucking ridiculous.   It boils down to taking individual, personal responsibility for your choices.  Or not doing that, and whining that the world isn't fair.

quote:

Many of the women in this thread seriously don't get it. They are so brainwashed into their faulty sense of entitlement. It's futile trying to explain how illogical their laughable stance truly is.


And it seems to be futile to keep explaining to you that *nobody* is entitled to anything from a stranger that they aren't sufficiently motivated to offer.  Everyone in this world has to work on having enough to offer that other people are attracted and interested enough to want to be with them and do things to make them happy.  It doesn't matter if you're born with an innie or an outie; this is true for all genders and sexual orientations.

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RE: Why Do So Many Mistresses Want Money First? - 6/19/2010 1:15:41 AM   
AQuietSimpleMan


Posts: 1410
Joined: 11/15/2009
Status: offline 		I went to the local Munch this evening. I presented the idea that I have been discussing. I presented the alternative ideas that have been made so far and I asked what people thought.

I am among the younger of the age groups of the small munch with the rest being made up primarily of couples who have all been together for 4 years or more, and range in ages of mid thirties to late fifties. This is a cross section of about 16 people.

I got to thinking that maybe I was only experiencing one aspect of this gender issue. I thought maybe I am just unaware of this other world where this general belief isn’t a reality.

What I got was interesting. All people mentioned that their chosen life partner and them never had an issue what so ever when it came to who would pay, however every last person of my small cross section said it was always the man who paid, and the reason they gave I SHIT YOU NOT!!!

“Cause Guys are supposed to pay”

This was said by both Male and Female on BOTH sides of kneel.

I know this is a small cross section of people but the diversity of where they came from and how they were raised were mostly different. The Older people admitted to it being taught that as a matter of honor and Chivalry Men paid because in their day Men initiated the act of courting. The Middle Age scale folk said it is just how they always did it, a Guy took his girl out and took care of the tab, to not do so made it clear that you were not interested romantically, and the younger group of which I am a part of for the most part agreed that is just the way it always was.

So then I brought up the concept of equality and how it has been applied and suggested in this thread, The Dominant Women ALL reacted the same way that I have seen presented in this thread. The submissive Women ALL thought it was not okay but admitted that if a guy didn’t do it they probably might not have dated them for long.

Most of the guys stated things like how they really didn’t date their Lifestyle Partner, they met and spent time getting to know one another but there was very little quote un-quote dating involved.

By the time the much was over the basic consensus was that most women any of us knew Lifestyle or Otherwise are probably willing to pay but REALLY like the fact that they don’t have to as a society based bias of the roles of the sexes.

And what had us laughing most of the night was that no woman that any of us know would rock the boat when a guy is willing to pay all the time. The Guys admitted they would also love such a thing…. And it was also agreed by all the men that women like that probably didn’t actually exist.

So I know the above post is cheeky, and I am sorry for that, it is just the facts of the evening. I just wanted to make sure I wasn’t actually just Bitter and Angry as so many people have claimed that I am. In Reality I have decided I am just willing to be honest about what happens to guys and not go quietly into the night cause people don’t either agree or admit that it’s real. I ask all the women who posted here to do themselves a favor and find a Male FRIEND and ask them about women taking advantage of the “Guy Pays the Check” Syndrome and ask them to tell you about how often they have seen it. Then ask 4 more guys the same thing and then do your own little average of how many of them don’t have anything to say on the subject. This evenings discussion has led me to believe that the reason that this is being argued so vehemently is because the primary female poster is also a dominant female.

Just think about it.

Unless something new is presented I think I am done with this thread.

QSM

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RE: Why Do So Many Mistresses Want Money First? - 6/19/2010 6:59:05 AM   
LadyCimarron


Posts: 625
Joined: 12/29/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AQuietSimpleMan
 
I ask all the women who posted here to do themselves a favor and find a Male FRIEND and ask them about women taking advantage of the “Guy Pays the Check” Syndrome and ask them to tell you about how often they have seen it. Then ask 4 more guys the same thing and then do your own little average of how many of them don’t have anything to say on the subject. 



I called up 5 male friends early this morning and asked them. 2 from work 2 from my neighborhood and 1 from my church. Everyone of them had something to say on the subject. Here are their responses numbered one through 5 and I tried to quote them as closely as possible.

1. "Any guy that thinks women are taking advantage of men by expecting them to pay for dates is an idiot. Women should be placed on a pedestal. Most real men would feel emasculated not paying for a date. It is fine for a woman to treat on occasion, but a real man pays"

2. "I don’t feel they are taking advantage of men and guys that feel like that should clear the playing field for gentlemen like myself who know how to treat a woman.  If she a good woman I pay for everything and I’m glad to do it. If I care about her, one of the ways I express my feelings for her is through what I do for her that includes what I do financially."

3. "Don’t even ask me about women taking advantage of men because most of the women in my family got a sorry ass joker living in their house that don’t do shit for them. Men need to get off their lazy asses and be men."

4.  "I don’t cake a woman I take a woman. I don’t date a woman unless she pays and the women I have, spend their money on me. If she don’t do it another woman will. I roll like that because I’m a stone cold player."

5.  "On the contrary,  I don’t see women today demanding enough out of their men. Biblically speaking, women should expect a man to pay for dates and to take care of her if the relationship progresses. The Bible says that a good man does those things and that a man that does not provide for his woman and family is less than an infidel. Now if you turn with me to Ephesians.........."
(then he went into a long tirade about biblical manhood so I tuned him out)



There are the answers I got from men.

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RE: Why Do So Many Mistresses Want Money First? - 6/19/2010 8:03:36 AM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline 		Each one of those five seems to me to take a pretty fundamentalist position, Lady C. 

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RE: Why Do So Many Mistresses Want Money First? - 6/19/2010 8:55:28 AM   
LadyCimarron


Posts: 625
Joined: 12/29/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

Each one of those five seems to me to take a pretty fundamentalist position, Lady C. 


I agree. I just asked them and quoted them. Number 4 really doesn't sound that fundamentalist, but one thing they all do have in common is that none of them seem to think they are being taken advantage of by paying for dates. Which leads me to believe that men who DO think so are a minority.
It still goes back to my original premise which is, if a man does not want to pay for a date with a woman then he should not do it. And apparently it works for number 4. I wouldn't date him, but the women who do seem to enjoy his company. His choice and theirs.


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RE: Why Do So Many Mistresses Want Money First? - 6/19/2010 9:11:43 AM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline 		To me, 1, 2, 3 and 5 go to one pole; 4 goes to the opposite pole.  I find all the positions pretty alien.

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RE: Why Do So Many Mistresses Want Money First? - 6/19/2010 9:27:44 AM   
LadyCimarron


Posts: 625
Joined: 12/29/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

To me, 1, 2, 3 and 5 go to one pole; 4 goes to the opposite pole.  I find all the positions pretty alien.


Hey.......welcome to Mississippi. I asked two more guys after I posted this who said point blank "If we fucking I don't mind paying. If we ain't fucking I ain't paying for shit."  Welcome to my world.

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RE: Why Do So Many Mistresses Want Money First? - 6/19/2010 9:38:10 AM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline 		Okay. I had horrible nightmares this morning, so I am going to stir the pot. Why not!

I am a DOMINANT WOMAN. "submissive" and bottom type men come to me, wanting to do this and that. Now, in the trunk of my car (that's the "boot", Peon ) I have a collection of toys. In one of my closets, the rest of my toys. And a fetish wardrobe.

How much DO those things, that I largely purchased with my own money, that I earned at my real life vanilla job, cost? You don't want to know. Thousands, certainly, over the last twenty years.

So, what I got from this thread, is that in the name of all things being equal, I am supposed to cough up for the toys, the clothings, AND THE COFFEE??? Because in a D/s relationship it is UNFAIR to make the mens pay??

SRSLY????



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RE: Why Do So Many Mistresses Want Money First? - 6/19/2010 9:44:03 AM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

So, what I got from this thread, is that in the name of all things being equal, I am supposed to cough up for the toys, the clothings, AND THE COFFEE??? Because in a D/s relationship it is UNFAIR to make the mens pay??

SRSLY????



Personally, I think the restaurant/cafe should pay both parties to drink their coffee.  I've heard that coffee in the USA is crap. 

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RE: Why Do So Many Mistresses Want Money First? - 6/19/2010 9:51:00 AM   
JhonDean


Posts: 84
Joined: 3/26/2010
Status: offline
quote:

I asked two more guys after I posted this who said point blank "If we fucking I don't mind paying. If we ain't fucking I ain't paying for shit." Welcome to my world.


Everyone should get something for their money and 20 yeasrs of making the same mistakes you did the first day you picked up a single tale (even if yoiu have both eyes left) and calling it experience is rarely a fair exchange for dollars.

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RE: Why Do So Many Mistresses Want Money First? - 6/19/2010 9:52:00 AM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline 		Oh please they don't even HAVE coffee in the UK!!

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RE: Why Do So Many Mistresses Want Money First? - 6/19/2010 9:55:28 AM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline 		They do.  Only an hour ago I saw a woman in a cafe, sipping coffee whilst sitting on her fanny. 

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RE: Why Do So Many Mistresses Want Money First? - 6/19/2010 9:58:22 AM   
wandersalone


Posts: 4666
Joined: 11/21/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

They do.  Only an hour ago I saw a woman in a cafe, sipping coffee whilst sitting on her fanny. 


please god tell me there was a man nearby who was going to pay for her coffee!!!!!!


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RE: Why Do So Many Mistresses Want Money First? - 6/19/2010 10:00:11 AM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

They do.  Only an hour ago I saw a woman in a cafe, sipping coffee whilst sitting on her fanny.



LANGUAGE!!

And that stuff was not coffee. I had a thing they called coffee in many places in the UK, and it was not coffee. Closest was Cafe Valerie in the Brompton Road. Pear tarts omg.

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RE: Why Do So Many Mistresses Want Money First? - 6/19/2010 10:01:00 AM   
LadyCimarron


Posts: 625
Joined: 12/29/2009
Status: offline 		I was speaking from a vanilla standpoint in this thread. Since it morphed from Mistresses asking for money to men in general not wanting to pay to take a woman on a date.

As for the rest, you don't need to have nightmares, honey. You know how to handle business, do so accordingly

BTW- I was perving your profile and accidentally hit a button that reported one of your pics. I'm really sorry about that. I hope it doesn't cause you any confusion.

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RE: Why Do So Many Mistresses Want Money First? - 6/19/2010 10:03:09 AM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline 		LOL No problem LC, I was just trying to REDIRECT, because is this reallly the place for vanilla discussions? Those guys need to be duking it out on chemistry.com or whatever.

The mods, sadly, KNOW ME. So no worries on the pic, either! I feel all important now!

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RE: Why Do So Many Mistresses Want Money First? - 6/19/2010 10:10:23 AM   
LadyCimarron


Posts: 625
Joined: 12/29/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JhonDean

quote:

I asked two more guys after I posted this who said point blank "If we fucking I don't mind paying. If we ain't fucking I ain't paying for shit." Welcome to my world.


Everyone should get something for their money and 20 yeasrs of making the same mistakes you did the first day you picked up a single tale (even if yoiu have both eyes left) and calling it experience is rarely a fair exchange for dollars.


For starters I am a lifestyle Domme not a pro. These were vanilla men I asked about their dating lives. I totally respect those guys' opinion and their right to date women who are willing to swap their bodies for a happy meal. God bless them. And you are correct; if one does not get what you want for your money, you should keep your money in your pocket. But one should not give it and then get mad and resentful about it later. Personally I tend not give anyone ANYTHING just because they expect it or I feel obligated to.  (except those salvation army santas get me every Christmas- damn them). Either I want to do it or I do NOT want to do it. That's my point.

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Profile   Post #: 319
RE: Why Do So Many Mistresses Want Money First? - 6/19/2010 1:39:31 PM   
OttersSwim


Posts: 2860
Joined: 9/1/2008
Status: offline 		Every interaction in this world is predicated upon a previous behavior by one party or another in the interaction.  Behavior is a funny thing because it includes things quite obvious like speech and gesture, but it also includes things not so obvious, but none the less perceptible - things like body language, attitude, motive, etc...

If I am having a friendly interaction with a female that I have interest in...even if were to only be for a pay-per-play session...my behavior would be courteous, friendly, and I generally would offer to pay for things like dinner provided that I was in a financial position to do so.**

I have never, nor would I in the future, expect that coffee or dinner carried with it any expectation that she is going to suddenly drop her pants and say "You wanna'?"  Nor would I believe in the slightest that I was in -any- way somehow entitled to that for the price of good sushi, a steak, or a cup of coffee.

For me, sex is serious.  It is at least the start of a relationship...not something I take lightly

**NOTE:  If I were NOT in a financial position to pay for such things as dinner or coffee, I wouldn't be taking people out, or meeting for coffee, nor would I be out on the Internet bitching about it like a fucking loser douchebag, and complaining about how unfair it all was and playing the -victim-. 

I would be fucking -working- so I could afford to treat a Lady.

< Message edited by OttersSwim -- 6/19/2010 1:41:22 PM >

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