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RE: Racist Jokes ? - 6/23/2010 4:36:38 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyCimarron

quote:

ORIGINAL: splorff

Strange how Chris Rock, Richard Pryor etc can, as dark toned people, tell jokes using the N word, and everything is fine. Yet if a pale comedian were to do, it would not matter how carefully he trod, or how sympathetically he did it, it just would not work.

Yet the pale one is trying hard to not offend, while the dark one may wilfully be offensive.

White comedians DO tell black jokes and some of them do it in a very funny manner. If you check out the ones that are on BET who perform in front of black audiences, you will see that they tell ethnic jokes and are well received by black audiences. Most urban comdians, whether white or black, tell jokes about other ethnicities and 99% of the time no one cares. I have never seen a white comedian get in front of a predominantly black audience and not bring up a joke about blacks. Its all in how you tell the joke.

edited for typo: ......

Yes, but how many of them actually use the "n" word?

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RE: Racist Jokes ? - 6/23/2010 4:57:20 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyCimarron

quote:

ORIGINAL: splorff

Strange how Chris Rock, Richard Pryor etc can, as dark toned people, tell jokes using the N word, and everything is fine. Yet if a pale comedian were to do, it would not matter how carefully he trod, or how sympathetically he did it, it just would not work.

Yet the pale one is trying hard to not offend, while the dark one may wilfully be offensive.

White comedians DO tell black jokes and some of them do it in a very funny manner. If you check out the ones that are on BET who perform in front of black audiences, you will see that they tell ethnic jokes and are well received by black audiences. Most urban comdians, whether white or black, tell jokes about other ethnicities and 99% of the time no one cares. I have never seen a white comedian get in front of a predominantly black audience and not bring up a joke about blacks. Its all in how you tell the joke.

edited for typo: ......

Yes, but how many of them actually use the "n" word?

They CAN use it. No one is stopping them from using it. I would like to remind everyone that it is not against the law to use the word. However, they would lose a signifcant portion of their audience if they did. And there is nothing wrong with that either. If the people who are paying to see them don't want to hear them use that word then it is just a simple matter of supply and demand. Some of them actually use the fact that they don't use the "n" word as part of their comedy routine.

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RE: Racist Jokes ? - 6/23/2010 10:49:40 PM

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"I would like to remind everyone that it is not against the law to use the word. However, they would lose a signifcant portion of their audience if they did."

So this comes down to money like just about everything else then ?

Makes sense to me.

T

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RE: Racist Jokes ? - 6/24/2010 12:51:55 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

"I would like to remind everyone that it is not against the law to use the word. However, they would lose a signifcant portion of their audience if they did."

So this comes down to money like just about everything else then ?

Makes sense to me.

T

Racism has always been about money. Do you really think the south got rid of Jim Crow because they cared about blacks or because a law was passed? No one cared until businesses that practiced Jim Crow were boycotted by blacks. Black people kept their money in their pockets and it brought businesses to a grinding halt. Alabama buses relegated blacks to the back seats and the law was on the bus companies side. Until blacks decided to walk rather than pay. Then there was an economic downturn in the busing industry. The bus companies lost money and drivers were laid off. It goes back to the golden rule: He who has the gold makes the rule.

The reason we always hear about racist statements and actions from businesses and entertainers is so that those who are against racism can make decisions about spending their money. Economists estimate that blacks in this country spend over 900 billion dollars a year and its expected to be over a trillion dollars by 2014. So comedians, entertainers and talk show hosts can all exercise their rights. So can the people whom they offend by their words and actions and that's a lot of money to lose.

Don't you just love America.

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RE: Racist Jokes ? - 6/24/2010 5:18:08 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead
Really? My assumption was that the film and comics I mentioned were deliberately and intentionally funny, rather than having been fiddled with by the translators, a la Monkey. There are a lot of very funny French writers (Voltaire springs to mind for a start, and the first half of The Torture Garden is hilarious and vastly better than the tedious kinky stuff at the end), and I'd suspect that's largely down to the French sense of humour being irreverent and dry.

I thought Candide was fucking hilarious but I'm kind of twisted like that.

Same here. There's Rabelais and Moliere as well. Very funny writers.

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RE: Racist Jokes ? - 6/24/2010 5:26:03 AM

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A couple of weeks back I heard some racist jokes I had not heard before, and that from the most unlikliest of people, a person I before thought too pure to know such stuff. The statement was first made that the person was going to tell a racist joke and with that saying they had no problems with the people who were the subject of the joke and even made an apology to a black friend with us by saying if you'd rather I not say it and close your ears if you don't like it sort of thing but the person said they were going to air the joke because it is just plain funny and does in no way illustrate their feelings.

The joke was stereotypical and yes, it was funny, even the black woman with us who is a bit sensitive about past wrongs laughed and it was a genuine laugh and she admitted it was very funny which was perplexing to me as the joke was playing on the past wrongs she is normally sensitive about. Admittedly, she had had a few glasses of wine and was fairly drunk but the person who aired the joke followed up with more of how they are not racist.

So, what does this say, is it a joke can be made about a racial stereotype devoid of any mal intent and actually be funny, or is it we are all basically closet racists for hearing and finding the humour in the joke or even is it we can see humour where it is in the mundanes of life ?

If it interests, the makeup of our group was a mix of ethnicities, a majority of white European but of the non white we had some of south American origin and North African descent but only one black of Afro Carribean ancestry.

< Message edited by Aneirin -- 6/24/2010 5:33:46 AM >

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RE: Racist Jokes ? - 6/24/2010 6:09:48 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin
So, what does this say, is it a joke can be made about a racial stereotype devoid of any mal intent and actually be funny, or is it we are all basically closet racists for hearing and finding the humour in the joke or even is it we can see humour where it is in the mundanes of life ?

We are all closet racists. One of the basic characteristics of humans is "Categorizing." (BIOLOGY 101) We love to to put everything into categories. Racism is an extention of this because it doesn't just catgorize but begins to place value on individuals based on the categories. If it were not skin color we would find some other useless characteristic to be bigoted about.

Jane Elliot was teacher who did her own exercise in racism with students in 1968. She divided the group based on eye colors. She treated blues better than brown and told them they were superior. The next day she switched the groups with brown eyes being superior and blue eyes being inferior.

"On both days, children who were designated as inferior took on the look and behavior of genuinely inferior students, performing poorly on tests and other work. In contrast, the "superior" students -- students who had been sweet and tolerant before the exercise -- became mean-spirited and seemed to like discriminating against the "inferior" group."

This test has been repeated over and over again since it was first done in 1968. Different groups, different ages, businesses, schools anyplace she could. She even did it to the audience on the OPRAH show in front of cameras and in every situation the results always yielded the same. The "superior" group began to discriminate against the "inferior" group and the inferior group began to look and behave inferior. It was amazing to watch the audience on the Oprah show turn on blue eyed people for no reason except she said she was an expert and could prove that blue eyed people were inferior. And incidentally there were a lot of negative jokes flying around about blue eyed people on that show.

BTW- There was a PBS special on this exercise on PBS here is a website pertaining to this exercise. Eliiot insists on it being called an exercise "something done to teach someone something," rather than an experiment "something done to learn something from someone."

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/divided/

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RE: Racist Jokes ? - 6/24/2010 8:21:43 AM

zephyroftheNorth

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SL4V3M4YB3

How can people argue stereotyping is wrong if they condone any kind of humour that uses it? Which all this race based humour relies on some kind of stereotyping. People seem to not mind tokenism i.e. get your token black stand up comedian to degrade himself because being black allows him to do this. It's a nonsense because people don't basically see it's the same old shit with another face to it.

Somehow I can't imagine Chris Rock being a token black person being pursuaded to degrade himself by making fun of black people.

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RE: Racist Jokes ? - 6/24/2010 9:08:51 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth

Somehow I can't imagine Chris Rock being a token black person being pursuaded to degrade himself by making fun of black people.

It might be true if Chris Rock ONLY made fun of black people, but he (and most comdians) make fun of all people from all races and all walks of life. I think it was Damon Wayons who was quoted as saying everybody but Jesus is a target for jokes.

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RE: Racist Jokes ? - 6/24/2010 9:16:14 AM

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Damon may not have caught Sam Kinnesons act in the day. But the Wayons are damn funny without doing jesus jokes, anyhow.

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RE: Racist Jokes ? - 6/24/2010 10:30:06 AM

xssve

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead
Really? My assumption was that the film and comics I mentioned were deliberately and intentionally funny, rather than having been fiddled with by the translators, a la Monkey. There are a lot of very funny French writers (Voltaire springs to mind for a start, and the first half of The Torture Garden is hilarious and vastly better than the tedious kinky stuff at the end), and I'd suspect that's largely down to the French sense of humour being irreverent and dry.

I thought Candide was fucking hilarious but I'm kind of twisted like that.

They definitely do satire, like breathing.

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RE: Racist Jokes ? - 6/24/2010 4:01:52 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyCimarron
We are all closet racists. One of the basic characteristics of humans is "Categorizing." (BIOLOGY 101) We love to to put everything into categories. Racism is an extention of this because it doesn't just catgorize but begins to place value on individuals based on the categories. If it were not skin color we would find some other useless characteristic to be bigoted about.

LadyC, are you saying that everyone judges everyone else on skin color?

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RE: Racist Jokes ? - 6/24/2010 5:48:01 PM

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ORIGINAL: Level

LadyC, are you saying that everyone judges everyone else on skin color?

Racism just happened to be the subject of this thread. Some do it based on skin color, hair color, eye color, gender, class and any number of other characteristics that make us human. It is also a common human trait to want to think well of ourselves. The easiest way to do that is to think less of someone else. If the right seeds are planted, we are all capable of judging each other based on those differences. I would even say that most of do cross that line sometimes. Many don’t realize that they are being bigots and they act this way unknowingly. Racism and other forms of bigotry begin whenever we take a look out another’s appearance and form an opinion of that person’s value based on that appearance. EDITED TO ADD: Bigotry is complete when we generalise that false judgment and apply it to an entire group.

An example of bigotry without knowing it: We hear two men arguing and when one wants to put the other down, I mean REALLY cut him low he says “you act just like a woman.” Its done all the time and no one even notices that it is derogatory towards women because it implies that a woman are less than, or something to be ashamed of being. Its bigotry and most people do it without even thinking about it.

< Message edited by LadyCimarron -- 6/24/2010 6:11:14 PM >

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RE: Racist Jokes ? - 6/24/2010 6:17:01 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

LadyC, what Richards did wasn't funny, to me, no. What I saw there was someone losing his cool, and trying to strike out at someone, and hide it underneath the label of comedy.

As an amateur comic, I resent anyone calling Richards a comedian. The guy was an actor, had never put in his time working standup in the crappy bars. He had way too thin a skin and didn't know how to handle hecklers.

That said... what IS racist humor? Let me give you some examples I have said:

Do you know the difference between a Jew and a Christian? When a Christian sees a body of water, they walk on it. When we Jews see a body of water, we part it.

Do you know what the Muslim concept of heaven is? 72 virgins. They evidently think that heaven is like a Star Trek convention. I do NOT want to know what their hell is like!

I also know jokes that Native Americans will laugh at but nobody else will understand, and jokes that I only tell to Russians, and another that I only tell to someone who emigrated from a nation that was a Soviet satellite.

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RE: Racist Jokes ? - 6/24/2010 7:35:49 PM

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quote:

The key word in 'racist jokes' is jokes, nobody imporant anywhere is against offensive jokes, because I can't think of a single comedian, anywhere, ever.....not using them. Some people just get stupidly touchy about some subjects.

Yanno, DC, you might have to take account of the history involved when you wonder why some people get "stupidly touchy about some subjects." Have a look at the history of racism in the States, mainly against blacks of course but also against the "yellow peril" and other groups.

I don't wish to insult you with a recitation of history you are probably familiar with so to illustrate my point I will just leave the lyrics to the song

Strange Fruit:

Southern trees bear a strange fruit
Blood on the leaves and blood at the root
Black bodies swinging in the southern breeze
Strange fruit hanging from the poplar trees

Pastoral scene of the gallant south
The bulging eyes and the twisted mouth
Scent of magnolia sweet and fresh
Then the sudden smell of burning flesh.

Here is a fruit for the crow to pluck
For the rain to wither, for the wind to suck
For the sun to rot, for the trees to drop
Here is a strange and bitter crop

Lyrics by Allan, Lewis;Pearl, Maurice;Wiggins, Dwayne P.

Recorded by Billie Holiday

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RE: Racist Jokes ? - 6/24/2010 7:56:10 PM

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ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

Do you know what the Muslim concept of heaven is? 72 virgins. They evidently think that heaven is like a Star Trek convention. I do NOT want to know what their hell is like!

Their idea of hell is getting 71 tribbles, and Will Wheaton.

I'm very tired, so any lack of teh funnay on my part is to be blamed on that.

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RE: Racist Jokes ? - 6/25/2010 4:28:57 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

LadyC, what Richards did wasn't funny, to me, no. What I saw there was someone losing his cool, and trying to strike out at someone, and hide it underneath the label of comedy.

As an amateur comic, I resent anyone calling Richards a comedian. The guy was an actor, had never put in his time working standup in the crappy bars. He had way too thin a skin and didn't know how to handle hecklers.

That said... what IS racist humor? Let me give you some examples I have said:

Do you know the difference between a Jew and a Christian? When a Christian sees a body of water, they walk on it. When we Jews see a body of water, we part it.

Do you know what the Muslim concept of heaven is? 72 virgins. They evidently think that heaven is like a Star Trek convention. I do NOT want to know what their hell is like!

I also know jokes that Native Americans will laugh at but nobody else will understand, and jokes that I only tell to Russians, and another that I only tell to someone who emigrated from a nation that was a Soviet satellite.

Or a classic from nine years back:

What was the last thing to go through the mind of a New York stockbroker on a crisp autumn day in 2001?
The radio mast.

I trust that everybody who's been insisting that racist jokes are just a part of life is fine with that one?

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RE: Racist Jokes ? - 6/25/2010 7:21:10 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyCimarron

quote:

ORIGINAL: splorff

Strange how Chris Rock, Richard Pryor etc can, as dark toned people, tell jokes using the N word, and everything is fine. Yet if a pale comedian were to do, it would not matter how carefully he trod, or how sympathetically he did it, it just would not work.

Yet the pale one is trying hard to not offend, while the dark one may wilfully be offensive.

White comedians DO tell black jokes and some of them do it in a very funny manner. If you check out the ones that are on BET who perform in front of black audiences, you will see that they tell ethnic jokes and are well received by black audiences. Most urban comdians, whether white or black, tell jokes about other ethnicities and 99% of the time no one cares. I have never seen a white comedian get in front of a predominantly black audience and not bring up a joke about blacks. Its all in how you tell the joke.

edited for typo: ......

Yes, but how many of them actually use the "n" word?

And would they get a laugh if they did ? More likely a stunned silence.

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RE: Racist Jokes ? - 6/25/2010 7:24:00 AM

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So what?

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RE: Racist Jokes ? - 6/25/2010 7:35:16 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyCimarron

I would like to remind everyone that it is not against the law to use the n word.

Not in the US maybe. Not sure about here in the UK. We have The Race Relations Act here . Its too long and stuffy probably to go and read it. But some peeps have been prosecuted under it. And not for saying much either, depending on which papers you read.

(in reply to LadyCimarron)

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