RE: Why do Doms...????

Post #: 181

RE: Why do Doms...???? - 8/2/2010 5:36:02 PM

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quote:

No more subjective than ...

And that's the point. You are presenting a subjective spin on "truth," relative to personal perception and a feeling of "knowing."

It's why fundamentalists clash--they both are convinced they hold the monopoly.

(in reply to porcelaine)

Post #: 182

RE: Why do Doms...???? - 8/2/2010 5:39:08 PM

porcelaine

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

No more subjective than ...

And that's the point. You are presenting a subjective spin on "truth," relative to personal perception and a feeling of "knowing."

It's why fundamentalists clash--they both are convinced they hold the monopoly.

No, the point was you needed to be heard and you had two people that refused to listen. Our truths stand. Sorry.

~porcelaine

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His will; my fate.

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Post #: 183

RE: Why do Doms...???? - 8/2/2010 5:40:15 PM

texangael

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quote:

I do. And when you're on top you have to right to say what is or is not.

Rights are irrelevant to reality. Reality is, regardless of "rights".

Expecting reality to conform to what you say--or what you have the right to say--is every bit as futile as Canute commanding the tides.

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Post #: 184

RE: Why do Doms...???? - 8/2/2010 5:42:20 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: porcelaine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

No more subjective than ...

And that's the point. You are presenting a subjective spin on "truth," relative to personal perception and a feeling of "knowing."

It's why fundamentalists clash--they both are convinced they hold the monopoly.

No, the point was you needed to be heard and you had two people that refused to listen. Our truths stand. Sorry.
~porcelaine

Wow. Now that's spin.

Again, I said no such thing. I made it clear at the outset this was a philosophical point.

And it's where I've stayed, and tex too, despite your repeated attempts to personalize it.

Of course your truths stand. You've defined truth as self-perception. Thus, for them, to you, everyone's truths stand. Except when they disagree with you. That's a problem for your theorem. The only way out would be to claim superior knowledge.

< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 8/2/2010 5:43:30 PM >

(in reply to porcelaine)

Post #: 185

RE: Why do Doms...???? - 8/2/2010 5:50:58 PM

BitaTruble

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

I think this is well outlined all the way around. Go in peace.

Being well outlined doesn't color in the picture.

Perhaps I can do so because I believe I understand what you all are talking about.

MM, please correct me if I'm wrong but what I gather (and also what I believe) is that regardless of what I may see when I view my reflection, even that reflection is going to be colored by my own perceptions which may have been or are presently being influenced by outside circumstance. I can be completely self-aware and still get some things wrong even when I know the subject as intimately as I do.. the subject being *me.*

As an example: for several years I took all of the responsibility for my first failed relationship in M/s. I knew, intellectually, that it does take two to make a relationship work and only one to break it up and I spent all that time thinking that it was *my* fault for allowing myself to be put into a bad place and truly felt that since I was the one who put myself there, I was to blame.

Himself comes along and points out that yes, I am responsible for the part that I played but so, too, was the other party responsible for the part they played and in no way shape or form should I take the responsibility for his actions and what transpired due to those actions.

In other words .. his perspective allowed me to change my perspective. To see myself through his eyes opened up new areas for me to discover and study .. well, me.

Now, it could be said, I suppose, that his was an opinion but truly, it wasn't. It was simply a truth that I failed to acknowledge because I didn't actually see it for myself. Once he pointed it out, it became quite clear to me and I 'got' it. The objective truth of the situation. I was to blame for my part.. Master A was to blame for his part.

The truth was not as I saw it.. and no doubt the truth would not have been as Master A saw it.. but, as with most things.. the truth was somewhere in the middle and truth is not subjective or it wouldn't be truth. Facts are facts.

That said, ignorance is not, necessarily, posturing nor is it a lie.. it is just ignorance.

I hope that as I age, I become less ignorant about the world around me and what lies beneath the surface of my own skin. I firmly believe that words have meaning and that one should mean what they say and say what they mean. When I say that I like music, that's a truth.. until someone says.. but do you like X Y Z music and I have to admit that, no, I don't like X Y Z music. It wasn't a lie to say that I like music.. it was an ignorant statement and what I should be saying is that I like *some* music. That would be a truth.

I know myself pretty well after all these years but everything I know is colored by .. everything I know. That's when it becomes less about truth and more about my own perspective. Keeping my mind open to other perspectives allows me continued growth.

Now, some of those perspectives of others are going to be off base but some are going to be quite accurate and given that truth really is objective and not subjective it behooves me to hone my skill in discerning the difference, weigh the other perspective and, ultimately, try to arrive at the objective truth rather than my subjective interpretation.

Am I at least in the ball park because if not, then the truth is.. I didn't understand a blasted thing you said. ::grins::

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Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."

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Post #: 186

RE: Why do Doms...???? - 8/2/2010 5:53:49 PM

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Like you say, you've added some color.

But yes--we learn from more than our own vantage point, and profitably. We can't see everything ourselves, however it seems to look.

(in reply to BitaTruble)

Post #: 187

RE: Why do Doms...???? - 8/2/2010 5:54:34 PM

porcelaine

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Again, I said no such thing. I made it clear at the outset this was a philosophical point.

And it's where I've stayed, and tex too, despite your repeated attempts to personalize it.

Of course your truths stand. You've defined truth as self-perception. Thus, for them, to you, everyone's truths stand. Except when they disagree with you. That's a problem for your theorem. The only way out would be to claim superior knowledge.

There was no spin. We both provided comments that reference our perspectives which you decided to debate. We heard your perspective and it was nice of you to share it. But in the end we're going to adhere to the belief system that has served us well. And when I seek third party input I go to reputable sources with verifiable results. Things that can be quantified that go well beyond Internet opinions.

~porcelaine

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Post #: 188

RE: Why do Doms...???? - 8/2/2010 7:24:43 PM

NuevaVida

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But Bita, according to what I am reading here, those things you know about yourself (that you like music, for example), are not actually reality. No matter what your life story is, what you have perceived and been proven wrong about, what views you have been open to and weighed against your life, what trials and errors you have lived, and so on...knowing yourself is not possible.

In my own case, having lived a self lie for a very long period of time, I do trust the inner truths I have come to know. This does not mean I know all of my inner truths, but those I do know were not easily come to. Recognizing the flaws can be scary. Admitting them even scarier. And I continue to learn more truths about myself as I go. I know myself pretty darn well. And I am always open to continuing to look inward. It wasn't all that long ago that I did some serious soul searching and learned a great deal about myself. In fact, I learned some truths about myself that were indeed truths and not simply perceptions.

But if someone tells me that knowing myself is unrealistic and "shaky", they'd have to be willing to spend the energy to convince me, if they want me to believe them. Tossing out a few quips of "that's not realistic" doesn't do much to expand my thinking. Which is a shame, actually, as it could have been an interesting conversation.

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Post #: 189

RE: Why do Doms...???? - 8/2/2010 7:36:50 PM

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quote:

But if someone tells me that knowing myself is unrealistic and "shaky", they'd have to be willing to spend the energy to convince me, if they want me to believe them. Tossing out a few quips of "that's not realistic" doesn't do much to expand my thinking. Which is a shame, actually, as it could have been an interesting conversation.

Nice try, but a false characterization of what's happened here.

(in reply to NuevaVida)

Post #: 190

RE: Why do Doms...???? - 8/2/2010 7:59:05 PM

NuevaVida

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

But if someone tells me that knowing myself is unrealistic and "shaky", they'd have to be willing to spend the energy to convince me, if they want me to believe them. Tossing out a few quips of "that's not realistic" doesn't do much to expand my thinking. Which is a shame, actually, as it could have been an interesting conversation.

Nice try, but a false characterization of what's happened here.

Here's my perception of what happened here. You are saying that most people don't know what they want. I am not at all arguing that. However, other than a Yale study whose details were not cited you have not offered anything substantive to back up your opinion. You have argued what others (myself included) have claimed about being self aware, but you stopped short there. A sentence here or there, a snide remark here or there, but nothing to really back your claim.

And the thing is, I agree with you that most people aren't very self aware. I'm just saying that some of us are, but you seem to be arguing that, too. Do you find it impossible that some of us might actually fall into that 3% and know what we want, and know certain truths about ourselves? That maybe we have traveled certain roads which brought us those truths? That perhaps looking in the mirror means looking for truths others have pointed out and evaluating them against our own current perceptions, and even reach new conclusions as a result? Do you seriously disagree that some of us have done that? If you do, I'll respect that we disagree and move on. I personally do not feel you have spent the energy to convince me of your view, and I'm open to seeing it. You have offered statements like it's posturing and a lie to claim truth of self, but you haven't explained why. You've talked about the Delphic Oracle and looking in mirrors and hollow mockery and living in a shaky world and being at odds with reality. Sorry, but nothing substantive there. Just quips. And I find it a shame because I was interested in where you were coming from.

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Post #: 191

RE: Why do Doms...???? - 8/2/2010 8:05:25 PM

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Sigh.

(in reply to NuevaVida)

Post #: 192

RE: Why do Doms...???? - 8/2/2010 8:09:07 PM

VideoAdminRho

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Folks.... could we possibly get this thread back on topic? For those who need a reminder, here is the OP:

quote:

Question of the day...why do Doms send photos of themselves with other submissives? (Chained, roped, masked..etc...?) Is that for their benefit or mine? I honestly hope to find a Dom that respects that the only person I want to see chained to him, well, is me:))
Respectfully,
Sultry

PS. Any advice would be awesome:))

(in reply to Musicmystery)

Post #: 193

RE: Why do Doms...???? - 8/2/2010 8:18:19 PM

divi

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Those pics dont bother me its the nasty ones with the Dom's with no shirts or even worse ones with their faces cut out that I find creepy

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Post #: 194

RE: Why do Doms...???? - 8/2/2010 8:50:17 PM

Twoshoes

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This thread was pretty entertaining to read. I also have an answer about the original question.

We men figure it out eventually that one of the thingd that raises our attractiveness level is having other women around paying attention to us. Whether it's female friends being entertained, being nice to the waitress, or just dancing with some poor girl without a date. It's social proof: "Hey, that guy has female friends, he must be genuine, honest and kind and understand women!" Or even just: "I wonder why that guy is getting so much attention, I'm intrigued and I want to talk to him to find out!". Heck, this is why guys learn to play the guitar.

Women being strange like they are, they get instantly turned off if it's percieved that the man is being DISRESPECTFUL to the women around: Calling his friends stupid, disrespecting his girlfriend by flriting with someone else (ex: the waitress), yelling at a woman, arguing with a woman, etc. Infact, when a girl starts yelling at some guy, everyone immediately blames him for it. Regardless of why.

So these gentlemen with the pictures of their subs might not completely understand the social dynamics they're trying to use to woo you, since you ladies find these pictures disrespectful to another woman's privacy! But you can hopefully now see where they got confused.

< Message edited by Twoshoes -- 8/2/2010 8:54:02 PM >

(in reply to texangael)

Post #: 195

RE: Why do Doms...???? - 8/2/2010 11:33:43 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterSeveryn

simple answer.
He wants to see how you will react to Him being/commanding/Owning other female slaves.
Part of is a test to see if you will go with it and be ok with his 'poly' ways, or if you will be a difficult slave and let your mind/heart get in the way of what HE WANTS.
Cause being a DOM is all about doing what he wants, when he wants, with whomever he wants.
If he's going to have to worry about a sub/slave who can't handle that he wants multiple females to play with, he might as well go into the vanilla dating world..

WOW Wwe have a winner. This might just be the best answer yet. Anyone have any thoughts on this?

So *you* then are clearly another who thinks that monogamy is impossible for bdsm, and laughable, correct? Like the other zillion emails that I receive insulting my desires *clearly* stated on my profile. Seems more disgusting and abusive than poly to me, but whatever.

Really, this doesn't deserve a reply, but I gave one to gauge others' reactions.

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Behind all things are reasons. Reasons can even explain the absurd. Do we have the time to learn the reasons behind the human being's varied behavior? I think not. Some take the time.

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Post #: 196

RE: Why do Doms...???? - 8/3/2010 12:00:57 AM

texangael

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quote:

Do you seriously disagree that some of us have done that?

Yes

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Post #: 197

RE: Why do Doms...???? - 8/3/2010 12:05:38 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jujubeeMB

quote:

ORIGINAL: RedStapler
1. These "Doms" are using tactics that only make sense to other men. Women find them repulsive.

I realize I'm a bit late to this thread, but this is going to continue to amaze me my entire life. Women are constantly adopting methods of attracting men that men find attractive, so why don't men ever adopt methods of attracting women that women find attractive? Whatever happened to seduction? Whatever happened to wooing? I'm no traditionalist, but those concepts seem to have been completely lost in the "here is my dick - wanna suck it?" era.

to be honest, I don't think we're at that era yet...only on here. And let's be honest, most of the men we encounter on here are not exactly high quality, in fact, most are below average. It's not very surprising they don't have the intelligence, social skills, drive, or basic respect and breeding to approach women normally- anywhere, I'd assume. So I don't really care about their motivations anymore, I'm just here for the forums, to chat and complain ...heh

quote:

The girls in photos thing makes me block profiles. I mean, if the picture is particularly beautiful or hot maybe I'll save it for my personal collection, but I'm sure not pursuing that guy. And if anyone ever takes a picture of me while we're in a relationship and then posts it on CM later, I'm going to ask him to please remove it or I'm sending an email to his mother.

haha, and yes I block all of those too. There are days in fact where the misogyny has been so virulent that I will go just block an entire set of 10-20 emails in a row. Just because the men come across as clueless, dull, bitter, hateful, or dirtbaggish, and I simply don't have the patience to deal with their follow up emails attacking me for not responding in the first place. I simply don't suffer fools gladly.

_____________________________

I carry a log - yes. Is it funny to you? It is not to me.

Behind all things are reasons. Reasons can even explain the absurd. Do we have the time to learn the reasons behind the human being's varied behavior? I think not. Some take the time.

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Post #: 198

RE: Why do Doms...???? - 8/3/2010 12:38:39 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Twoshoes

This thread was pretty entertaining to read. I also have an answer about the original question.

We men figure it out eventually that one of the thingd that raises our attractiveness level is having other women around paying attention to us. Whether it's female friends being entertained, being nice to the waitress, or just dancing with some poor girl without a date. It's social proof: "Hey, that guy has female friends, he must be genuine, honest and kind and understand women!" Or even just: "I wonder why that guy is getting so much attention, I'm intrigued and I want to talk to him to find out!". Heck, this is why guys learn to play the guitar.

Women being strange like they are, they get instantly turned off if it's percieved that the man is being DISRESPECTFUL to the women around: Calling his friends stupid, disrespecting his girlfriend by flriting with someone else (ex: the waitress), yelling at a woman, arguing with a woman, etc. Infact, when a girl starts yelling at some guy, everyone immediately blames him for it. Regardless of why.

So these gentlemen with the pictures of their subs might not completely understand the social dynamics they're trying to use to woo you, since you ladies find these pictures disrespectful to another woman's privacy! But you can hopefully now see where they got confused.

What you're saying is very observant, but I still prefer the abusive douchebag lacking basic morals theory.

_____________________________

I carry a log - yes. Is it funny to you? It is not to me.

Behind all things are reasons. Reasons can even explain the absurd. Do we have the time to learn the reasons behind the human being's varied behavior? I think not. Some take the time.

(in reply to Twoshoes)

Post #: 199

RE: Why do Doms...???? - 8/3/2010 12:48:01 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: texangael

quote:

Do you seriously disagree that some of us have done that?
Yes

Who cares.

My 2

- and I think this is what nueva and porcelaine were so politely wording, is that, some people are better than others at being objective, and being self-aware. If not there wouldn't be a difference between a research scientist and a nun....there wouldn't be a diffference between a serial killer and a hero. People are just different, some people have needs that are more intense than others, therefore they are called out of necessity to understand themselves more. Other people can see their own selves very clearly but have more trouble changing than others.

_____________________________

I carry a log - yes. Is it funny to you? It is not to me.

Behind all things are reasons. Reasons can even explain the absurd. Do we have the time to learn the reasons behind the human being's varied behavior? I think not. Some take the time.

(in reply to texangael)