RE: The Christian right prepares itself for another day in the trenches (Full Version)

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domiguy -> RE: The Christian right prepares itself for another day in the trenches (8/12/2010 8:37:59 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

When Tim McViegh blow up the Federal building in Oklahoma City, no one condemned all Christians. He professed his Christianity.
Wide swathes of people did not suddenly think that churches were breeding grounds for terrorists.
Why? Because in America, we are only scared of terrorists if they are dark.


Actually I think that had more to do with the fact the christians don't have the reputation for suicide bombers and terrorism. But if it makes you feel better to call someone a racist, go for it. It seems to be the word of the day lately.[8|]



Here is the thing boi, please take some time to absorb this.

Why did they have to import the terrorists? It is estimated that there are anywhere from 3-5 million Muslims living in the U.S. today.

If they are so Hell bent on the destruction of the United States you would think that the events in Times Square would be damn near a daily event. In the last ten years how many attacks have been made against this country by her citizens and exactly which religious groups are responsiblr for harboring those that committed these acts of terrorism?

If a white Christian guy kills a guard outside the White House or flies his plane into an IRS building he is labled as being disgruntled or crazed. If these same acts were committed by a Muslim who is a citizen of this Country how would they be viewed?

One would have to reach the conclusion that the citizens of this country no matter their religious affiliations pretty much love the Country and plan no ill will to their fellow citizens.

It is time to push aside our differences. Unfortunately there are so many people like yourself, wibur and servant that seem to want to lump all Muslims together no matter where they reside.

Why do you hate your fellow Americans?



BoiJen -> RE: The Christian right prepares itself for another day in the trenches (8/12/2010 11:24:56 AM)

When some crazy white guy commits a crime because of his feelings toward the government, we ask why? and get the answer..."Aryan Nation", "Local Militia", etc. Then we blame those groups.

When a group of crazy middle eastern guys run planes into buildings and someone claiming to be organizing them says it's for their God and their religion tells them this was necessary. Then we blame the religious group.

This really is not that different than blaming the group the white guy associates with.

Maybe I'm just simple.

boi



willbeurdaddy -> RE: The Christian right prepares itself for another day in the trenches (8/12/2010 11:34:16 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BoiJen

When some crazy white guy commits a crime because of his feelings toward the government, we ask why? and get the answer..."Aryan Nation", "Local Militia", etc. Then we blame those groups.

When a group of crazy middle eastern guys run planes into buildings and someone claiming to be organizing them says it's for their God and their religion tells them this was necessary. Then we blame the religious group.

This really is not that different than blaming the group the white guy associates with.

Maybe I'm just simple.

boi



I dont think "blame" is the right word. We look for groups that they may be affiliated with in order to assess where future threats may come from. But whatever you call it, you are right, it has nothing to do with racism, religious bigotry or any other "ism".



Jeffff -> RE: The Christian right prepares itself for another day in the trenches (8/12/2010 11:37:25 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

I dont think "blame" is the right word. We look for groups that they may be affiliated with in order to assess where future threats may come from. But whatever you call it, you are right, it has nothing to do with racism, religious bigotry or any other "ism".



Let's accept for the moment that is true.

How then does one reconcile that statement with the objection over a religious building?



Lucylastic -> RE: The Christian right prepares itself for another day in the trenches (8/12/2010 11:42:31 AM)




quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

snip
Actually I think that had more to do with the fact the christians don't have the reputation for suicide bombers and terrorism. But if it makes you feel better to call someone a racist, go for it. It seems to be the word of the day lately.[8|]



Talk to the Irish Republican Army and the other "christian" bombers would ya?
not a muslim among them
maybe not ain the USA<. but then... well there was more than a fair few americans helping them along...
Take the blinders off
Of course they can bomb abortion clinics and harass staff and women but no they arent main stream christians are they..




BoiJen -> RE: The Christian right prepares itself for another day in the trenches (8/12/2010 11:45:15 AM)

If the focus is of a community center to meet community needs, then the center and it's organizers need to be sensitive to the community's feelings about the religious structure within it.

I actually think this is a busted PR opportunity for the community center. I mean think about the positive community feelings that could have been brought to the center and organization if they took public commentary, waited a week or two then said "Ok. We understand the community around us has feeling and needs and we want to respect that." And then considered not installing the Mosque for another few years or whatever and held services else where in the meantime. Later, quietly open the Mosque. Imagine the goodwill and support generated from a community who felt listened to?

I dunno..maybe I'm still not seeing the picture. Being non-religious, I have a very hard time justifying putting anyone's religion over the feelings a community. Hell, maybe it's just a hang over from being queer and having issues with the Christian right.

boi



willbeurdaddy -> RE: The Christian right prepares itself for another day in the trenches (8/12/2010 11:52:40 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

I dont think "blame" is the right word. We look for groups that they may be affiliated with in order to assess where future threats may come from. But whatever you call it, you are right, it has nothing to do with racism, religious bigotry or any other "ism".



Let's accept for the moment that is true.

How then does one reconcile that statement with the objection over a religious building?

read boijen's post I was responding to and maybe you can think real hard and answer your own question.



Jeffff -> RE: The Christian right prepares itself for another day in the trenches (8/12/2010 11:53:40 AM)

I was not responding to jenn's post.

Think real hard and try to defend yours.



EbonyWood -> RE: The Christian right prepares itself for another day in the trenches (8/12/2010 11:58:20 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi


Actually I think that had more to do with the fact the christians don't have the reputation for suicide bombers and terrorism.



Reputation with who? You might want to visit Northern Ireland and take a poll.
 
If you go into the wrong pub it will be a one way trip.



VideoAdminSigma -> RE: The Christian right prepares itself for another day in the trenches (8/12/2010 12:36:28 PM)

General site advice to posters on this thread:  (take warning)

I understand that there are emotional issues for many, but as of RIGHT NOW we are done with the personal end of the attacks.

If this is not immediately clear to you, it soon will be. And nobody will survive.



Lucylastic -> RE: The Christian right prepares itself for another day in the trenches (8/12/2010 12:38:20 PM)

My argument was with your response, take responsibility for your own BS



EbonyWood -> RE: The Christian right prepares itself for another day in the trenches (8/12/2010 12:43:25 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: VideoAdminSigma

General site advice to posters on this thread:  (take warning)

I understand that there are emotional issues for many, but as of RIGHT NOW we are done with the personal end of the attacks.

If this is not immediately clear to you, it soon will be. And nobody will survive.


When are you guys going to kick out people who alter quotes and substitute insults?
 
http://www.collarchat.com/m_3355613/mpage_1/key_/tm.htm#3358491
 
It's got to be the lowest of the low.



willbeurdaddy -> RE: The Christian right prepares itself for another day in the trenches (8/12/2010 12:57:42 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

My argument was with your response, take responsibility for your own BS


I did. You obviously didnt understand my response.



Lucylastic -> RE: The Christian right prepares itself for another day in the trenches (8/12/2010 1:04:17 PM)

Making assumptions really isnt helping your position
I understood you just fine.
you just turned it back on me and before that, on Moon, that's not taking responsibility.




willbeurdaddy -> RE: The Christian right prepares itself for another day in the trenches (8/12/2010 1:05:35 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Making assumptions really isnt helping your position
I understood you just fine.
you just turned it back on me and before that, on Moon, that's not taking responsibility.




I didnt need to make any assumptions. It is more and more obvious from every post that you have no clue what I was saying.



Lucylastic -> RE: The Christian right prepares itself for another day in the trenches (8/12/2010 1:10:22 PM)

And again, that is becoming repetitive and therefore pointless.
You obviously  cannot take responsibility for what you said... address it, or dont bother trying to insult me.
it smacks of desperation



willbeurdaddy -> RE: The Christian right prepares itself for another day in the trenches (8/12/2010 1:14:35 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

And again, that is becoming repetitive and therefore pointless.
You obviously  cannot take responsibility for what you said... address it, or dont bother trying to insult me.
it smacks of desperation



I dont have to try.



Owner59 -> RE: The Christian right prepares itself for another day in the trenches (8/12/2010 1:17:22 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BoiJen

When some crazy white guy commits a crime because of his feelings toward the government, we ask why? and get the answer..."Aryan Nation", "Local Militia", etc. Then we blame those groups.

When a group of crazy middle eastern guys run planes into buildings and someone claiming to be organizing them says it's for their God and their religion tells them this was necessary. Then we blame the religious group.

This really is not that different than blaming the group the white guy associates with.

Maybe I'm just simple.

boi



Add anti-abortion nutters.

A lot of dead bodies and blown up/burned down buildings.

Why aren`t they referred to in the MSM as domestic terrorists ?

I remember during the the campaign when Palin was using that term quite liberally when a reporter asked if she thought clinic bombing and shooting Dr was terrorism and looked like she bite into a lemon.No she said which was pretty savvy being that most of her base supports militant anti-abortion activity.





BoiJen -> RE: The Christian right prepares itself for another day in the trenches (8/12/2010 1:38:09 PM)

It is domestic terrorism and and a big fuckin problem if you ask me. From crazy ass Eric Rudolf to shoulda shot himself Scott Roeder. And they should be tried as terrorists and traitors to the country as they and their actions were purposeful attempts and executions of taking away the freedoms of citizens of this country. I believe both them were also anti-government nut bags.

I think the difference in how they're viewed here in the U.S. is similar to the difference in how suicide bombers are viewed in the middle east. Only so often can a society or culture be exposed to something before it becomes part of the culture. Unfortunately, in the middle east it's suicide bombers. Here, it's clinic bombers AND there's a certain level of animosity that comes from being exposed to whatever anybody calls their cause. If they call it God and that God isn't part of mainstream culture there will be backlash against that God. If you call it cheddar cheese, you better expect people to start throwing cheddar cheese out by the bucket load and stores stocking it are gonna lose business.

That's just how communities, or on a larger scale societies, operate. Call it "mob mentality" if you will. It doesn't change the legitimacy of the feelings and the need to protect when faced with something running under a "cause" that's created massive damage to that same group of people in the past. It's reasonable to be apprehensive, angry, sad, hurt, to feel disrespected, etc. The group organizing for the Mosque is refusing to actually address the community around them that's having the issue and to deal with those feelings. Rather, they're trying a diversion tactic of saying "but look what else we're doing!"

boi



AlwaysLisa -> RE: The Christian right prepares itself for another day in the trenches (8/12/2010 1:43:13 PM)

On a personal level, I see no need to erect any building that celebrates a particular faith.  Not there.   Work on inter personal relationships in major cities, put up all the mosques your little heart desires as long as they are not affiliated with 9/11 and all that came with it.   It's just bad form in my book.

People of all beliefs died at ground zero, not just Muslim.   Perhaps it's not racism, but the memory of loved ones blown to bits or crushed beneath concrete that keeps people from wanting to build a place of worship on that site.   Its a place of painful memories, not one of rejoicing and celebration.

Even if the actual building is blocks from the tower site, it's still commemorative of pain, suffering and death.    It's still too fresh in many minds.  It's easy to say we should all join hands and sing Kumbaya....if you weren't one of those who lost a loved family member. 
Lisa



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