RE: 14th amendment debate

RE: 14th amendment debate (Full Version)

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tazzygirl -> RE: 14th amendment debate (8/8/2010 2:07:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster If their employers were suddenly taken to account for employing them, they'd go home. But there's a reason why that doesn't happen... Personally I think the whole issue is a right-wing red herring, because the economy can hardly function without illegal labor, and everyone in politics knows that. It's exactly why there will never be a real solution to the problem. Just a lot of bullshit designed to get voters riled up. quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl The problem is... they are here. Many are honest, hard working people whose only crime is coming into this country illegally and working "illegally". I agree to a point. This country and hardly function without them... but they dont have to be illegal to function.

vincentML -> RE: 14th amendment debate (8/8/2010 2:08:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Exactly, Owner. They are often abused and mistreated. Both by their own community who knows they are illegal, and therefore unable to complain against crime... and by employers who can screw them over at any chance. The purpose of sanctuary cities is to prevent such abuse. Or at the least to reduce it.

tazzygirl -> RE: 14th amendment debate (8/8/2010 2:18:19 PM)
Not all of them know about, or understand, what a sanctuary city is. We shouldnt need such cities to protect anyone from abuse, thats why we have law enforcement. Imagine being in a country.. lets say France. You dont know the language, you dont know the laws... and some guy comes in to your home and hassels you, claiming you have no protection because you arent there legally, so the law wont help you. A local restaurant had two employees... american and mexican. The mexican was illegal. The two got into an argument, then a fight. The mexican got his nose broke. No amount of talking would convince that man that he has the legal right to press charges. He refused, then walked out, quitting a job he really liked. The american still works there. The mexican, if he trusted a bit more, could own that company. But he simply doesnt want anything to do with the law.

Lordandmaster -> RE: 14th amendment debate (8/8/2010 2:22:26 PM)
It works the other way around too, tazzy. I know people who have gotten into automobile accidents with illegals who had no insurance (and took off immediately). Oops, sorry, you're on your own.

popeye1250 -> RE: 14th amendment debate (8/8/2010 2:24:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl In many aspects, they are law abiding, pops. Once here, many work hard to remain out of the laws field of vision, so many try hard not to break any other laws. LOLOL, Tazzy, the very second they step over the border they broke the law. They use stolen SS cards and numbers which is a federal felony. If You or I did that it's 3-5 in a federal pen! They use the US Postal Service to mail money which was obtained illegally, "mailfraud" another federal felony, if they use a wire service it's "wirefraud." Tazzy, just to "remain" in the U.S. they are committing all kinds of crimes. When our govt. "doesn't" enforce the laws that's when the problems start!

tazzygirl -> RE: 14th amendment debate (8/8/2010 2:24:49 PM)
Oh, i completely agree. It shouldnt happen from either end.

tazzygirl -> RE: 14th amendment debate (8/8/2010 2:28:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl In many aspects, they are law abiding, pops. Once here, many work hard to remain out of the laws field of vision, so many try hard not to break any other laws. LOLOL, Tazzy, the very second they step over the border they broke the law. They use stolen SS cards and numbers which is a federal felony. If You or I did that it's 3-5 in a federal pen! They use the US Postal Service to mail money which was obtained illegally, "mailfraud" another federal felony, if they use a wire service it's "wirefraud." Tazzy, just to "remain" in the U.S. they are committing all kinds of crimes. When our govt. "doesn't" enforce the laws that's when the problems start! Pops, you are preaching to the choir who has been singing about the laws they break all the time. BUT many will run beneath the radar after that, All things considered, the laws they break are minimal, annoying mostly. The stolen SS numbers can be corrected on someone's credit report, for example. Yeah, its a hassle, but it can be done. As far as taking money illegally, i disagree. They worked hard for that money, they deserve what they are paid. Many times they are underpaid. Honest work for honest pay, and i see many working an honest job. Sadly, how they got that job isnt exactly honest, but we set the system up the way it is. We allowed the loopholes. Someone on this side is aiding them, selling stolen numbers, ect. You cant pin all the blame on them.

Owner59 -> RE: 14th amendment debate (8/8/2010 2:39:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Exactly, Owner. They are often abused and mistreated. Both by their own community who knows they are illegal, and therefore unable to complain against crime... and by employers who can screw them over at any chance. The purpose of sanctuary cities is to prevent such abuse. Or at the least to reduce it. When Giuliani was NYC`s mayor,his policy on UM`s of illegals was that their status was irrelevant in regards to getting services and equal protection. When the radical right hammered him for not wanting to use schools,hospitals and city agencies to catch or go after illegals,he rightly explained that UM`s of illegals NOT getting healthcare endangered ALL UMs in school. That going after them would discourage getting care if they needed it or worse,spread untreated diseases to others. The health and well being of the schoolkids far outweighed any other consideration for Rudy. He of course flip-flopped on that issue in between mentioning 9/11 ten thousand times during the pres campaign.

popeye1250 -> RE: 14th amendment debate (8/8/2010 2:47:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl In many aspects, they are law abiding, pops. Once here, many work hard to remain out of the laws field of vision, so many try hard not to break any other laws. LOLOL, Tazzy, the very second they step over the border they broke the law. They use stolen SS cards and numbers which is a federal felony. If You or I did that it's 3-5 in a federal pen! They use the US Postal Service to mail money which was obtained illegally, "mailfraud" another federal felony, if they use a wire service it's "wirefraud." Tazzy, just to "remain" in the U.S. they are committing all kinds of crimes. When our govt. "doesn't" enforce the laws that's when the problems start! Pops, you are preaching to the choir who has been singing about the laws they break all the time. BUT many will run beneath the radar after that, All things considered, the laws they break are minimal, annoying mostly. The stolen SS numbers can be corrected on someone's credit report, for example. Yeah, its a hassle, but it can be done. As far as taking money illegally, i disagree. They worked hard for that money, they deserve what they are paid. Many times they are underpaid. Honest work for honest pay, and i see many working an honest job. Sadly, how they got that job isnt exactly honest, but we set the system up the way it is. We allowed the loopholes. Someone on this side is aiding them, selling stolen numbers, ect. You cant pin all the blame on them. Tazzy, "minimal?" Up in N. Carolina now 1/3 of all DUI deaths are caused by illegal aliens. FAR out of proportion to their numbers! And they are not supposed to be earning any money here if they're illegal. I think we pretty much agree on many issues in this topic, the main differance is that you seem to be "sympathetic" to them while I am not.

tazzygirl -> RE: 14th amendment debate (8/8/2010 2:52:01 PM)
Which means 2/3 of the DUI deaths are caused by people who are here legally. Keep it in perspective, pops. We cant preach what we dont want to practice. As far as earning money illegally, many americans work under the table as well. Many draw disability and still work. Many work off the books and dont declare a dime. Again, we have to practice what we preach. Yes, i believe we should go after employers for breaking the law. I also advocate breathalyzers in every car hooked to the ignition. How many people want to pay for that little addition?

truckinslave -> RE: 14th amendment debate (8/8/2010 9:31:29 PM)
quote: I don`t want to change the 14th or even tweak it. I want it nullified. 60,000 anchor babies per year just in Texas. The illegals value American citizenship. We should too.

truckinslave -> RE: 14th amendment debate (8/8/2010 9:34:48 PM)
quote: Which means 2/3 of the DUI deaths are caused by people who are here legally Can we assume 5% of our population is here illegally? If so, that means they are more than six times more likely to get a DUI. My personal belief is that the rate of property crimes is similar, or worse. Liberals tell me: 1. Illegal immigrants are poor. 2. Poverty causes crime.

tazzygirl -> RE: 14th amendment debate (8/8/2010 9:37:50 PM)
Americans are poor too. I lived in NC. Rednecks, good ole boys, ect drive drunk as well.

truckinslave -> RE: 14th amendment debate (8/8/2010 10:21:57 PM)
quote: Rednecks, good ole boys, ect drive drunk as well. So do doctors, lawyers, and indian chiefs (no, I am not going to cite a souce, thompson [:D]) Just not at the same rate, apparently, as illegal aliens. Are you aware that at one time... two years or so ago, every outstanding murder warrant LAPD had was for an illegal alien? I will admit that there are some mitigating potential explanations for that; but, still, taz, every one??

tazzygirl -> RE: 14th amendment debate (8/8/2010 10:23:42 PM)
This goes back to a lack of civics classes and understanding of a way of life in the US that illegals dont have. But, we have to clean up around our own back door before we start demanding others do the same.

truckinslave -> RE: 14th amendment debate (8/8/2010 10:51:35 PM)
quote: This goes back to a lack of civics classes wtf??? DUI is caused by a lack of civics classes????? Never heard that one. Two stints in rehab, thousands of AA meetins, untold phone and other conversations, turned 20 years sober last week, and I never heard that before now. I said on another thread people sometimes learn things here- even me. And believe me, tazzygirl, you just opened my eyes. Care to talk about cultural differences concerning other social mores? Rape, maybe? Statutory rape??

tazzygirl -> RE: 14th amendment debate (8/8/2010 10:55:37 PM)
quote: This goes back to a lack of civics classes and understanding of a way of life in the US that illegals dont have When you chop up posts, you can make them say anything you wish. Its habit in Mexico, from what i have been told and what i have read, to believe you can drive better after "a few". Thats definitely not what we teach here. Its not the understanding in the US that drinking and driving is ever a good thing. Next time you decide to chop up my posts, make sure you make another decision.

truckinslave -> RE: 14th amendment debate (8/8/2010 11:01:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: This goes back to a lack of civics classes and understanding of a way of life in the US that illegals dont have When you chop up posts, you can make them say anything you wish. Its habit in Mexico, from what i have been told and what i have read, to believe you can drive better after "a few". Thats definitely not what we teach here. Its not the understanding in the US that drinking and driving is ever a good thing. Next time you decide to chop up my posts, make sure you make another decision. next time you make a distinction, make sure it makes a difference.

tazzygirl -> RE: 14th amendment debate (8/8/2010 11:02:30 PM)
It does make a difference. What do you believe a civics class teaches? Ill give you a pass. Civics classes teach, among other things, current events and the court system. http://civicyouth.org/PopUps/FactSheets/FS07_Civics_Classes.pdf

truckinslave -> RE: 14th amendment debate (8/9/2010 8:19:58 AM)
quote: Civics classes teach, among other things, current events and the court system. Which applies to DUI... how?

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