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RE: Islamophobia in America - 9/13/2010 8:04:08 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

conservatives have a nasty habit of keeping their mouth shut even when they dont agree with the stand a conservative politician makes... it would seem by the lack of statements to the contrary that conservatives seem to be supporting anti-Muslim protests

Logically, then, you must also feel that Muslims who "have a nasty habit of keeping their mouth shut" even when they don't agree with the stand taken by radical Islamist groups would seem to be supporting terrorism.

I dunno, sounds Islamophobic to me.

K.

< Message edited by Kirata -- 9/13/2010 8:29:17 PM >

(in reply to jlf1961)

RE: Islamophobia in America - 9/13/2010 8:36:06 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

conservatives have a nasty habit of keeping their mouth shut even when they dont agree with the stand a conservative politician makes... it would seem by the lack of statements to the contrary that conservatives seem to be supporting anti-Muslim protests

Logically, then, Muslims who "have a nasty habit of keeping their mouth shut" even when they don't agree with the stand taken by radical Islamist groups would seem to be supporting terrorism. So I guess that's what you think of them, too, eh?

K.

Actually, there have been quite a few Muslims who condemn the extremists, including Imams, who have done so in interviews, INCLUDING the Imam who is behind the Park 51 project. (Beck needs to watch his recent appearance on Larry King)

Google results for Fatwas against Terrorism

Now, how bout coming up with a conservative or a republican who have come out in favor of the mosque at 51 park? Not someone that agrees they have the right, but actually supports it.

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RE: Islamophobia in America - 9/13/2010 8:38:21 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

conservatives have a nasty habit of keeping their mouth shut even when they dont agree with the stand a conservative politician makes... it would seem by the lack of statements to the contrary that conservatives seem to be supporting anti-Muslim protests

Logically, then, Muslims who "have a nasty habit of keeping their mouth shut" even when they don't agree with the stand taken by radical Islamist groups would seem to be supporting terrorism. So I guess that's what you think of them, too, eh?

K.

Actually, there have been quite a few Muslims who condemn the extremists, including Imams, who have done so in interviews, INCLUDING the Imam who is behind the Park 51 project. (Beck needs to watch his recent appearance on Larry King)

Google results for Fatwas against Terrorism

Now, how bout coming up with a conservative or a republican who have come out in favor of the mosque at 51 park? Not someone that agrees they have the right, but actually supports it.

There was already a link from the 6 Muslim or Arab Republicans who wrote a letter to their GOP colleagues.

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RE: Islamophobia in America - 9/13/2010 8:50:43 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy
Actually, there have been quite a few Muslims who condemn the extremists, including Imams, who have done so in interviews, INCLUDING the Imam who is behind the Park 51 project. (Beck needs to watch his recent appearance on Larry King)

Google results for Fatwas against Terrorism

Now, how bout coming up with a conservative or a republican who have come out in favor of the mosque at 51 park? Not someone that agrees they have the right, but actually supports it.

There was already a link from the 6 Muslim or Arab Republicans who wrote a letter to their GOP colleagues.

Okay, six. All Arab and Muslim Republicans.

Can you balance that with FOX News, Newt Gingrich, Sarah Palin, Lou Ann Zelenik (GOP candidate in TN,) Rush Limbaugh, just to name a few. The conservative media is flooded with anti-Muslim allegations, rhetoric and accusations.

If Mitch McConnell or John Boehner would come out and publicly denounce all the anti-Muslim conservative media blitz, then it might make an impact, although I doubt they would get re-elected.

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RE: Islamophobia in America - 9/13/2010 9:02:19 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

There was already a link from the 6 Muslim or Arab Republicans who wrote a letter to their GOP colleagues.

the authors -- who include former Bush administration official Randa Fahmy Hudome and former Reagan administration official and prominent D.C.-based lawyer George Salem, as well as David Ramadan, who worked on both of George W. Bush's campaigns -- make similar philosophical and substantive arguments as other defenders of the proposed Cordoba House. Samah Norquist, wife of prominent GOP activist Grover Norquist and a Senior Advisor to Arab and Muslim Outreach, for the U.S. Agency for International Development during the Bush Administration, has also signed the letter.

Actually, the voice most conspicuously NOT supporting the Islamic center is Obama's. He defends their "right" to build it, but... (insert weasel-wording here).

K.

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)

RE: Islamophobia in America - 9/13/2010 9:09:27 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

If Mitch McConnell or John Boehner would come out and publicly denounce all the anti-Muslim conservative media blitz, then it might make an impact, although I doubt they would get re-elected.

Because there is no anti-Muslim conservative media blitz, except in your imagination.

And if Boehner isnt reelected it will be because he wimps out on the tax bill, not because of anything to do with "islamaphobia"

< Message edited by willbeurdaddy -- 9/13/2010 9:14:16 PM >

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RE: Islamophobia in America - 9/13/2010 9:21:07 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

No, I didnt say that. What I said was that I had been warned for insulting posts.

Yet posts that insult who groups of people by calling them terrorists etc is allowed.

I would also like to point out that it has been my experience that conservatives have a nasty habit of keeping their mouth shut even when they dont agree with the stand a conservative politician makes.

How many conservative politicians or talking heads have come out condemning the various mosque protests going on around the country?

I will put it this way, it would seem by the lack of statements to the contrary that conservatives seem to be supporting anti-Muslim protests around the country, including a pipe bomb being detonated outside a mosque in Florida.

In fact, it would seem that conservatives, for the most part are keeping their mouths shut, except for the politician that made the statement that "Islam is a political movement or a cult, not a religion." in Tennessee. The GOP did not publicly denounce the statement, thereby giving its passive agreement.

So, if a single Democrat denounces something as racism, then all Democrats are saintly. But if a single Republicans fails to publicly denounce it, then all Republicans are racists?

There was a rape last week in Atlanta. I didn't hear any denouncements from President Obama. He supports rape, then?

I think part of your logical problem is that you are a priori assuming that all opposition to anything involving a Muslim is by default racism, which is not true.

Another part of your logical problem is the fallacy of the excluded middle.

Another involves your confirmation bias, in which you see what you wish to see, and fail to see any facts or circumstances which would tend to not support your existing beliefs.

Firm

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RE: Islamophobia in America - 9/13/2010 11:06:51 PM

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Alright, IF the majority of conservatives and republicans are not anti-Muslim, for whatever reason, then explain the following:

1) Continued RNC support of a Tennessee candidate that has come out supporting the protests against a mosque in Murfeesboro Tennessee, and saying that Islam is not a religion?

2) Conservative talking heads (Hannity, Beck, Limbaugh, Cal Thomas, Dick Morris, Eric Bolling, Brian Kilmeade, Franklin Graham, Newt Gingrich) have been repeatedly accusing the people behind the Park 51 project as promoting terrorism and extremism and getting support from people who support terrorists, despite the facts that prove otherwise?

3) 2012 Presidential Hopeful Newt Gingrich has recently released a DVD condemning Islam, the DVD is called "America At Risk."

These are the people who speak for the majority of conservatives.

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RE: Islamophobia in America - 9/13/2010 11:12:15 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

These are the people who speak for the majority of conservatives.

Sez who, besides them? Didn't you just point out that conservatives don't get all upset and "denounce" everything they disagree with?

Face it... you're just a fucking conservophobe.

K.

(in reply to jlf1961)

RE: Islamophobia in America - 9/13/2010 11:15:45 PM

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Heck, i admit to being a conservophobe... them people skere me!

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(in reply to Kirata)

RE: Islamophobia in America - 9/13/2010 11:25:51 PM

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Actually Kirata, I grew up in a Republican family. I voted for Reagan in his first election. And when Reagan decided to use military force to deal with a little problem in the Caribbean, I kinda got soured on conservatism.

The fact that there was no military reaction to a Marine Barracks getting blown up in Beirut and a full scale invasion of an island nation that had not made any overt military action against the United States really made no sense.

I was in the army at the time.

So, since then I have voted democrat. Conservatism has cost me one nephew in a war that was based on lies and half truths.

We had no business going into Iraq, since there was no WMD's, there was no link between Hussein and Osama Bin Laden, both of which were given as reasons to invade.

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Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

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(in reply to Kirata)

RE: Islamophobia in America - 9/13/2010 11:55:35 PM

SuzanneKneeling

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Just a thought here, since I'm up late. I see one of the tired Islamophobe red herrings alive and well here tonight. It's an old favorite, personally. It goes: If I don't personally see each and every Muslim holding a sign denouncing Al Qaida every single day of their existence, then that means they celebrate 9/11 as a wonderful event and are rooting for Al Qaida.

There were probably murders in your city last year - almost no matter where you live. Did you put a sign in your window declaring loudly to the world that "the residents of this household oppose murder and do not approve of future ones"? No? I guess you are pro-murder then.

If you're a decent, objective person, you know that this kind of thing is about as fair and realistic as saying, "I see you're a Catholic. I haven't noticed you speaking out loudly against priests abusing children yet this week. Does this mean you are pro-child molestation then?"

It gets old. Grow up, people.

(in reply to jlf1961)

RE: Islamophobia in America - 9/14/2010 12:07:12 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Alright, IF the majority of conservatives and republicans are not anti-Muslim, for whatever reason, then explain the following:

What does "anti-Muslim" mean, anyway? You mean that they are all racists?

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

1) Continued RNC support of a Tennessee candidate that has come out supporting the protests against a mosque in Murfeesboro Tennessee, and saying that Islam is not a religion?

I'm not familar with either the candidate, his words, or the situation. Nor of the level or reasoning of any RNC support of his candidacy.

Provide your sources and reasoning, and I'll address it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

2) Conservative talking heads (Hannity, Beck, Limbaugh, Cal Thomas, Dick Morris, Eric Bolling, Brian Kilmeade, Franklin Graham, Newt Gingrich) have been repeatedly accusing the people behind the Park 51 project as promoting terrorism and extremism and getting support from people who support terrorists, despite the facts that prove otherwise?

a. None of the people you mentioned are elected Republicans. Most of them aren't politicians.

b. I haven't seen any of their claims, nor have I have I seen any evidence for or against those claims.

c. Assuming they all (every one) made those exact claims, what proof did they provide, and what counter-proof do you accept that they are "lying" or that they are all actually "anti-Muslim"?

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

3) 2012 Presidential Hopeful Newt Gingrich has recently released a DVD condemning Islam, the DVD is called "America At Risk."

a. "Presidential Hopeful"? Has he declared? What are his poll numbers? Or is this title just a way to ratchet up his "creditability" as a "Leader" of the Republicans?

b. Have you watched the DVD? Or just took someone else's word for it? Or just assumed your pov is correct, because it meshes with your prior beliefs?

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

These are the people who speak for the majority of conservatives.

What Kirata said.

I know this is a lot of questions, but I'm really not trying to bury you in bullshit. When anyone makes a generic claim that "all of" some group believes something, I tend to see that as an overall simplistic claim. The world tends to be complex at times, and the reasons that people do or say certain things can be just as complex.

Firm

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RE: Islamophobia in America - 9/14/2010 6:23:51 AM

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Someone said that adults got the right to chose whether they wanted to be Muslim or not. Obviously women don't get that right, even in America.

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RE: Islamophobia in America - 9/14/2010 11:28:14 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydawg
What was the word you decided on to use instead of Beielf system, world view, assumptions, ect. there were a whole bunch.

What term did you decide on, that didn't include the concept of belief in it.

We don't need to do the whole thread again. Since you won it, just give me that term.

First of all let me make sure we are on the same page here, is this the thread you are referring to: http://www.collarchat.com/m_3263683/mpage_1/tm.htm

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RE: Islamophobia in America - 9/14/2010 3:30:58 PM

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Yep, though I must admit I was wrong, and the thread did take back off on a new tangent.

Primarily your belief that brain scans looking sightly different in Positive or negative belief, make them linguistially different.

Which is just a belief. Brain waves are different if one says cat or potatoe, but both are stating a noun.

if one accepts that unproven assumpton as fact ( which require faith), you are 100% correct.

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RE: Islamophobia in America - 9/14/2010 3:55:32 PM

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actually just recently there was a news segment on that just this last weekend (I think) on MPR and some scientist-computer guys are working on just that very subject, but they have (at present) to load a whole bunch of micro detectors in your brain (near the frontal lobe I think) and they can recognize the brain forming 10 words so far at 50% accuracy, and think it is quite concievable to be up to 90 with 90% accuracy by end of next year. And from there, who knows........

However, this is slightly oblique to the point you are making, just sorta interesting is all.

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RE: Islamophobia in America - 9/14/2010 3:57:48 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

actually just recently there was a news segment on that just this last weekend (I think) on MPR and some scientist-computer guys are working on just that very subject, but they have (at present) to load a whole bunch of micro detectors in your brain (near the frontal lobe I think) and they can recognize the brain forming 10 words so far at 50% accuracy, and think it is quite concievable to be up to 90 with 90% accuracy by end of next year. And from there, who knows........

However, this is slightly oblique to the point you are making, just sorta interesting is all.

That is so cool.

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RE: Islamophobia in America - 9/14/2010 4:07:21 PM

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definatly very cool.

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RE: Islamophobia in America - 9/14/2010 7:58:40 PM

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It would only be cool if citizens could use that sort of technology on government agents. Judges, cops and politicians, and the like.

And they couldnt use it on us.

quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydawg

definatly very cool.

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