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RE: Islamophobia in America - 8/23/2010 12:46:00 AM   
joether


Posts: 5195
Joined: 7/24/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: StrangerThan
I will most certainly argue that the majority of conspirators and racists is not on the right. There are more conspiracy theories here than I've ever heard of anywhere. As far as racists go, the left can't see anything but. The rest of the world will never manage to look at a man as a man or a woman as a woman as long as there's a liberal in the room.


Really? They arent on the right huh? I guess you like to ignore reality for fantasy. At every Tea Party Rally I was at, I could count about 30-50% of the crowd displaced racism: how they talk, their posters, their music, flags (fortunately no Nazi flags), and generally blame everything on illegal immigrants. When asked what they would define an illegal immigrant as, the answer was 70%: "They are Mexican", 25% "They are south of the border." And the remainer was other answers.

Also, at each rally, I could count the number of non-whites in the crowd on two hands, and have fingers left over. Your going to tell me, THAT movement doesnt have a reputation problem? If the Tea Party message wasn't directed just at white people, wouldn't it be logical to assume, other minorities would want to be at the rally? BTW, how many black commentators are on Fox News? Arab? South Asia? I dont see to many on that show that are non-white. Why is that? Lack of good journalists? I doubt it.

There are a high number of conspirists that are conservatives. The conservative philosophy is much closer inline to conservative principles then liberal. In a liberal thinking, one would look at many types of information, and base on how they all fit together, with logic and reason. Conservatives, on the other hand, look at very little evidence, to form huge concepts. Conservatives, make up the crap that fall between two different peices of information. How many Birthers, are liberal, StrangerThan? How many liberals, believe Obama is a Socialist? How many liberals believe Obama is a muslim?

And what do those Birthers base their theory on? The idea, that since, they, themselves, have never held, Mr. Obama's actual birth certificate in their hand.....he isn't a US Citizen. They ignore that the State of Hawaii was the 50th state, just two years before Obama was born. That the state has verified, twice, that he is eligible for the office. The Governor, whom is a Republican, checked....twice....that the information was correct and accurte. The Electoral College, checked the information. The FBI, checked the information. There is a HUGE mountain of evidence, that says, Mr. Obama is a US Citizen, and born in Hawaii. And STILL, the Birthers disagree. They have lost every court battle, they entered in on. And STILL, they say they are right. THAT, StrangerThan, is a conspirist!

Now, if you wish to say that librals have more conspirists, then conservatives: Present Your Evidence.

quote:

ORIGINAL: StrangerThan
You and jt both assume that my issue with this mosque/cultural center is based on religion or politics. That means you both can pull your head out of your asses. As I have stated many times in this debate, it is not about religious tolerance, not about any hatred of islam, nor about politics in general.


Bull....Droppings. If a Christian church were to set up 1 block from Ground Zero, would there be any problem from conservatives? Would Fox News have a problem? Rush Limbaugh? Any of the Republican Senators or Representatives in Congress? Sarah Palin? Glenn Beck? Or the hundreds of conservative talk radio stations around the country?

NO.

What if someone wanted to practice buddism, or Native American Spirits, or even devotion to the Great Spagetti Monster? Not even a problem.

This has EVERYTHING, to do with Islam, and the cultural center that will also house, a mosque within it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: StrangerThan (time stamp: 8/22/2010, 5:53:38AM)
I don't think anyone wants them all deported.


Actually whether people want them deported or not....IS....talking about politics.

quote:

ORIGINAL: StrangerThan (time stamp: 8/22/2010, 5:53:38 AM)
I think a good portion of the population of the US would also agree that islam needs to clean itself up before presenting itself to the world as a peaceful and compassionate religion.


So, a 'good portion' of Americans say something about another group....isn't that politics as well?

Exactly WHAT, do you define politics as?

quote:

ORIGINAL: StrangerThan
It is that this structure is at the wrong place, at the wrong time.


Oh, is it terribly inconvient for conservatives? You are trying to tell us liberals and moderates that you understand what it means to be American, right? How about next tuesday, at 3PM? To early? How about October 14th, at 5PM? Still to early? So when would be a good time? Oh....November 5th, 9AM?

quote:

ORIGINAL: StrangerThan
The majority of America is not going to ride this boat with you.


You speak for the majority of America, eh? I like to see THIS evidence. Last I checked, Mr. Obama, SPEAKS, for the majority of America.

quote:

ORIGINAL: StrangerThan
Insisting that they do so, insisting they ignore an islamic place of worship being constructed near ground zero, only gives pundits the ammunition they need to point out that supporters who use A) religious tolerance are incredibly and insanely hypocritical as evidenced by the hatred of Christians that they use in defense, B) supporters who insist this is a cultural center only won't answer the simple questions of if it is, why does it need the islamic tag on it, why does every other reporting organization use mosque synonymously with the structure? and C) why a good portion of those same supporters aren;t supporting the rebuilding of the greek orthodox church..


Really? Since when did conservatives, need ammunition or facts, to argue things? Last I checked, conservatives, were the ones saying:

A) The building would be tall enough to overlook Ground Zero
B) The whole building, is one large mosque
C) The owners of the building, are not US Citizens
D) The owners want to gloat to America.

All of these are without facts, and YET, conservatives STILL, argue them. Why?

quote:

ORIGINAL: StrangerThan
A) religious tolerance are incredibly and insanely hypocritical as evidenced by the hatred of Christians that they use in defense


I think, you imply (if I'm reading this right), that if a small group of Christians, perform some act of terrorism, we shouldn't blame the whole of Christianity. Yet a small group of Muslims, perform some act of terrorism, (like on 9/11/2001), so we should blame all of Islam, right? People are blaming this cultural center, for 9/11/2001. Conservatives are blaming Muslims (who didnt have anything to do with it) in our own country, for 9/11/2001.

quote:

StrangerThan
B) supporters who insist this is a cultural center only won't answer the simple questions of if it is, why does it need the islamic tag on it, why does every other reporting organization use mosque synonymously with the structure?


So, what does YMCA, stand for? Young Men's CHRISTIAN Association. They have them in mostly every city around the country. They are cultural centers, for the community around it. Why do they have to have a Christian tag?

Actually, most newspapers refer to it as a cultural center. They use mosque, to help readers recall what the subject and flashpoint of angery stems from (for those living under a rock for the past few weeks, I guess). Fox News, however, refers to it as a mosque (can't imagine why....).

quote:

ORIGINAL: StrangerThan
C) why a good portion of those same supporters aren;t supporting the rebuilding of the greek orthodox church..


What if I am? Do I have to tell you? Sorry, that's my 1st Amendment right in action. Do the supporters all have to do the same? Do they all have to wear a badge over their heart, announcing who they are, and what they did in life?

quote:

ORIGINAL: StrangerThan
you want me to keep going? The religious intolerance tact being played out on the left is nothing short of laughable.


Yes, because we see conservatives, hugging Muslims at Ground Zero? I certainly dont see that. The 'left', doesnt show religious intolerance, at even half, the rate, conservatives do. Anyone watching American History for the past few years, have notice the staggering amount of intolerance by 'the right' on the topic of 'religion'. But hey, if you have the evidence, prove it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: StrangerThan
This structure does not belong here at this point in time. Period. They certainly have the right to build it, but it is incredibly insensitive and downright stupid to go ahead with it.


Oh, so they cant build because of you? You have not given a decent reason, for why they cant not build there. Its their property! They are US Citizens. They have a right to practice their religion. Or are you going to deny their civil rights?

Are they really insensitive, as conservatives are towards them? Not by a long shot! If I had to give weights to demonstrate the amount of 'insenstitiveness' of that cultural center, compared to conservatives in this country; It would be one pound against 16 tons. Why are you so blind to the intolerance?

quote:

ORIGINAL: StrangerThan
You can take heart though, you have a Hamas founder on your side.


You sure you want to make THIS an arguement? That is a very poor, and insensitive arguement to make. Weren't you just trying to rail others for being insensitive?

quote:

ORIGINAL: StrangerThan
Just admit it joe. You hate conservatives.


I dont hate my fellow Americans. They are allowed their viewpoint, even though I believe its not in the best interests of the country. I do get angry that they allow themselves to be tricked in to believing foolish and stupid things so easily. They enjoy devolving from what they once were 30 years ago, to the slop we have now. Conservatives 30 years ago, would NEVER, sanction torture, for ANY reason. Conservatives would NEVER, allow others to tamper with the US Consititution, even if it was a short term gain on their philosophy. Conservatives now, are 'ok', with torturing Muslims and modifing whole sections of the US Constitution, for really no, logical or wise reason.

quote:

ORIGINAL: StrangerThan
You hate Christians.


I dont hate my religion. You have a problem, take it up with God. If HE says I did something wrong, I'll work to correct it, if possible. If not, I'll apologize.

But dont make accusations, based on little or no information. Yes, I do get tired of Christians who use the Holy Bible for petty reasons, and not holy ones. Yes, I get annoyed, when Christians behave like the Romans, instead of Jesus. But you should really watch what you accuse others of, particularly on religion. Here is allittle advice.... why dont you apologize.

quote:

ORIGINAL: StrangerThan
And the only reason you want to ride this boat is.. I don't know.


You insult me, that I hate my fellow Americans, and then insult my religious beliefs. And then, dont have a thought beyond that. Beautiful....(shakes head)

quote:

ORIGINAL: StrangerThan
Tell me why. Tell me why it's so important to you to dig up every piece of crap you can find to support a religion whose practitioners, for the most part, are going to have less tolerance for you than the one you already can't stand.


Go read the Bill of Rights. 1st Amendment: ....Freedom of Religion..! Our founding fathers put that in there for a reason. They understood, even back then, what religious intolerance does to a nation. They didnt want it to happen here. That is why this country WASN'T found as a Christian Nation; But on freedom of religion! Or do you not think, the US Consititution is that important?

I believe, if I sit down with someone, over a cup of tea, and talk, they'll see, in little bits, that my religion is good. It has its problems, but, there are good people within it, trying to make it better for others. Its not the first session or the 1007th session. When they want to persue it more, I'm there to help. I help them, in a time of need, and ask nothing in return. If they are homeless, I help them find a shelter. If the shelter is full, I find them a hotel room for the night. New England winters are dangerous, even at night! I'm fortunate, that I'm not the only one, that understands this basic thought and process.

Yes, I fully am aware of the atrocities of Christians past. I'm also sure, many Muslim Americans are aware of antrocities of their religion's past as well. But here in America, we live together. We hold different religions, different ideas, different cloths, different cultures, and even different tastes in music. We understand, that we have a right, not to agree. We dont resort to musket and sword, to settle our differences, but, by dialogue.....in front of a US Judge if it comes to it. I dont have to accept their religion, but, by the law of the land, I have to give it a decent level of respect. Unlike you, it seems, I believe the US Constitution is very important to the United States of America.

Before Mr. Bush came to office, most Muslims around the world, thought rather highly of America and its citizens. Help to do business with them. Sure, some didnt like us, but then, neither did the Soviets. When 9/11 took place, many Muslims were quite sadden by the lost of life and the great destruction. If I were to tell this to a conservative, and even show the facts, they would disbelieve it; preferring the idea that all Muslims have irrational hatred of the USA and its citizens.

quote:

ORIGINAL: StrangerThan
Before you start arguing that point, get off your bottom and get over to the birthplaces of islam and tell them what you think.


Why should I? They have their country, and I have mine. I recall we recently went in to a Muslim country, and told them, how they should behave. And they didn't take to it with 'open arms' or treat our soldiers with 'hugs and kisses', like Paris, France, after the German's got kicked out.

The Middle East is home to many different religions, not just Islam. Many religions, its believed, have their origins in the Middle East. You do know that, dont you?

Or do you actually believe, that all Muslims, have an irrational hated America? Careful, because that too, is a conspiracy of the right.

Now I've answered your questions, so I do believe, I'm within my right, to have you answer all of mine.

(in reply to StrangerThan)
Profile   Post #: 81
RE: Islamophobia in America - 8/23/2010 3:20:49 AM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
What hysteria? Certain Muslims have gone out of their way to stir the passions of a lot of Americans. Strong feelings, which in most cases are entirely justified.

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Of course, the true purpose of this topic is to discuss the Anti-Muslim hysteria that seems to be taking over the United States.

And considering the venom in some people's posts, I think that many would be happier if they (the Muslims) were rounded up and put in camps or deported.


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(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 82
RE: Islamophobia in America - 8/23/2010 5:27:00 AM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


What hysteria? Certain Muslims have gone out of their way to stir the passions of a lot of Americans. Strong feelings, which in most cases are entirely justified.




So, you are saying that to judge a whole group of people because of the actions of a few is justified?


Considering that there have been 3 incidents involving American Muslims in acts of violence in the last few years and 15 incidents of violence directed at Muslim Americans in the last couple of years, I think the Muslims have more to worry about.

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(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 83
RE: Islamophobia in America - 8/23/2010 6:30:32 AM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
No, youre trying to change what I wrote to suit your agenda. What I wrote is that certain Muslims have gone out of their way to stir the passions of a lot of Americans, which is absolutely true.




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(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 84
RE: Islamophobia in America - 8/23/2010 7:26:16 AM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
Who says there is no bias in the leftwing media:


quote:


CNN Compares Ground Zero Protestors to Nazi Sympathizers







Read more: http://newsbusters.org/blogs/kathleen-mckinley/2010/08/22/cnn-compares-ground-zero-protestors-nazi-sympathizers#ixzz0xRHzMyEj






< Message edited by Sanity -- 8/23/2010 7:32:52 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 85
RE: Islamophobia in America - 8/23/2010 7:30:56 AM   
samboct


Posts: 1817
Joined: 1/17/2007
Status: offline 		I think it's time to charge Rupert Murdoch and the Fox news organization, along with any congressman or senator that went along with denying Americans religious freedom and whipping up anti Islamic hatred with treason. Their actions fit the bill.

Consider- we're at war- courtesy of the previous administration. Who are we fighting? Well, that remains a little murky. We're not fighting the governments of Afghanistan or Iraq, we're engaged in "nation-building" there. Isn't Pakistan supposed to be our ally whatever we're trying to do in this neck of the woods? Last time I checked, all of these countries are predominantly Muslim, both in populace and in government. If we're doing anything, we're pursuing a bunch of thugs who like to kill Americans. So, if our troops are on the ground in these countries, this is a "hearts and mind" battle, similar to what we fought in Germany during the cold war. Basically, our troops job is to convince the people that we're the good guys, that we just want to help get rid of the nogoodniks. But the people we're trying to convince of this are Muslim! That we're chasing after other Muslims means that Muslim isn't a good distinguishing characteristic for telling the good guys from the nogoodniks. In fact, if I was a nogoodnik towelhead cursing at the US, I would love to sow dissension amongst the Allies (US and theoretically the gov'ts of Afghanistan, Iraq, and Pakistan)- I'd want the people of Afghanistan to hate the Americans like I do. Well, if the Americans hate all Muslims courtesy of Fox Propaganda- this works great for me! I can now tell all the people I run into that the Americans really hate all of us (no matter what we've been trying to convince them of over the past years), and that we should band together to throw them out of our country. This is my fondest wish come true!

In short- this anti Muslim nonsense spouted by Fox Propaganda and Sarah Palin (can we please lock her up with a big black momma with a strap on?) would be riotously funny if it wouldn't lead to our troops getting killed. It seems that the people in this country that got us in the war in this neck of the woods, just made sure that it's unwinnable -not that it wasn't a nightmare already. Why don't we lock them up for treason and war profiteering, since they've provided such wonderful assistance to the enemy?


Sam


(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 86
RE: Islamophobia in America - 8/23/2010 7:34:25 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		LOL, what a load of asswipe, once again the right wing media turning the actual words into its own line of horseshit:

From the Article, Amanapour interviewing Levitt:

> Let me take a few of those, sort of, in order. There’s been a lot of heated rhetoric as we’ve been saying. I want to play you something that the former House Speaker, Newt Gingrich, said about the plans to build this center near Ground Zero.
[GINGRICH, ON FNC, AUGUST 16: Nazis don't have the right to put up a sign next to the Holocaust Museum in Washington. We would never accept the Japanese putting up a site next to Pearl Harbor. There's no reason for us to accept a mosque next to the World Trade Center.]
[To Levitt] Let me ask you directly because he did bring up Nazi imagery there. What do you make of that?
> Do you have the plans for it, do you have the architect, do you have the funding? Is it something that could happen anytime? Or is it still a long time off?


So, our boy Newt the slimy eft.................



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(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 87
RE: Islamophobia in America - 8/23/2010 7:39:19 AM   
ScaryJello


Posts: 103
Joined: 10/19/2006
Status: offline 		At Sam

War profiteering is defined as: A war profiteer is any person or organization that improperly profits from warfare or by selling weapons and other goods to parties at war. The term has strong negative connotations. So no. They are not guilty of war profiteering any more then the news organizations during Vietnam were guilty of war profiteering.

Also Fox News, although not an organization I trust to deliver unbiased news (I don't trust any organization to do that), has not denied anyone their religious freedom. At no point in time have they attempted to deny someone their ability to practice their religion. While you may not agree with their opinions they still have the right to say it. After all the point of protecting free speech is not to protect popular speech, but to protect unpopular speech.

Also neither Fox News or Sarah Palin are guilty of treason. Treason being defined as
1: the betrayal of a trust : treachery
2: the offense of attempting by overt acts to overthrow the government of the state to which the offender owes allegiance or to kill or personally injure the sovereign or the sovereign's family
according to http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/treason

So what have they done to attempt to overthrow their government? Absolutely nothing. They have expressed their viewpoint. Idiotic? Maybe. Ignoring some facts? Possibly. Treason? Not even remotely.

< Message edited by ScaryJello -- 8/23/2010 7:41:55 AM >

(in reply to samboct)
Profile   Post #: 88
RE: Islamophobia in America - 8/23/2010 7:52:42 AM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
From yet another voice leftists would love to silence:

quote:

Muslims, not Americans, are religious bigots



August 20, 2010




According to an article in Time magazine, there has been no increase in violence against Muslims since the announcement of plans to build a mosque near Ground Zero. (Alan Diaz/AP)


Time magazine asked this week whether America has “a Muslim problem,” and suggested that “many” of those opposed to the Ground Zero mosque “are motivated by deep-seated Islamophobia.” The same article scowls disapprovingly that “46% of Americans believe Islam is more likely than other faiths to encourage violence against nonbelievers.” (What could have possibly given them that idea?)


But, as the article concedes, there has been no increase in violence against Muslims. In reality, Americans remain fastidiously tolerant of all religions, even one that inspired 19 fanatics to hijack four commercial airliners on 9/11 and kill more than 3,000 Americans in the bloodiest attack in our nation’s history. Time requires a peculiar sort of blindness to see so much imagined intolerance in America — especially based solely on “anecdotal evidence” — while nearly ignoring the religious intolerance in most Islamic countries. A group of triumphalist Muslims seeks to erect an Islamic center near Ground Zero in a city that already has 100 mosques, and they face, at worst, disapproval, stern looks and calls to relocate their project.


Read more at the Washington Examiner: http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/Muslims-not-Americans-are-religious-bigots--101125989.html#ixzz0xRNPcVoY



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(in reply to samboct)
Profile   Post #: 89
RE: Islamophobia in America - 8/23/2010 8:07:45 AM   
Rule


Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
to judge a whole group of people because of the actions of a few is justified?

That depends on whether they are individually or collectively as a population, culture or country, guilty and on whether they approve off the action.

For example, when someone by a judge, implementing the law of the country, is ordered to have his arm amputated, it is the entire country or at least its dictator who are guilty of this barbaric action.

(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 90
RE: Islamophobia in America - 8/23/2010 8:14:47 AM   
samboct


Posts: 1817
Joined: 1/17/2007
Status: offline 		ScaryJello

Sorry, but the definition of war profiteering you posted makes my point. Improperly profiting from war can most certainly mean providing material assistance to the enemy during wartime for the purpose of prolonging war to increase munitions sales. That's exactly what's happening now by Fox "News Channel" fomenting dissent amongst our allies or at least the neutrals currently residing in Afghanistan and Pakistan. Want to ask the commanding general, David Petraeus what he thinks this story did to his chances of success? (I'd bet he'd never answer- he'd view it as disloyal to complain.)

In terms of treason- excuse me- but what part of aiding the enemy isn't considered a breach of trust- the first definition of treason?

If we're not at war, then your comments about the free press apply- and I agree with them by the way. But since we are at war, whipping up hatred of your allies is most certainly a betrayal of trust or treason in my book. If someone betrays the country for money- that's not necessarily trying to overthrow the government, but it's most certainly a breach of trust. And if we're shooting outrageous barbs here- wasn't Rupert Murdoch an Aussie? So from that perspective, it might be hard to charge him with treason. But given the tangled octopus web of corporate allegiances made possible by the conglomeration of news channels (two parties may work- two news channels is a disaster) and the lack of a press free from large corporate meddling, the idea of war profiteering is not farfetched. How many of Rupert Murdoch's buddies are benefiting from this war?

Sam

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 91
RE: Islamophobia in America - 8/23/2010 8:15:56 AM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline 		How many tea party rallies have you attended? Where were they?

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(in reply to joether)
Profile   Post #: 92
RE: Islamophobia in America - 8/23/2010 8:17:29 AM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
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quote:


So, you are saying that to judge a whole group of people because of the actions of a few is justified?


Not sure if that is what he is saying, but judging from your posts, you seem to think it's the way to go. Or are you trying to imply you don't do that?


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(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 93
RE: Islamophobia in America - 8/23/2010 8:56:03 AM   
StrangerThan


Posts: 1515
Joined: 4/25/2008
Status: offline 		Joe the vitriol you spew against Christianity in defense of islam says more than I ever can about your state of mind. I'm not here to defend Christianity, but I find it ludicrous to use religious tolerance and civil rights as talking points for your argument, then slant off into rants about another group.

It is just silly. Beyond silly it demonstrates the intolerance you have. Again, I'm not doing it, you are.

Ahh, the tea party folk. You counted a considerable percentage there. I have a better one though and it approaches 100 %. The difference is in subtle vs what I suppose is outright - although honestly, from those I know who attend tea party events, your percentage is exaggerated to say the least. Most of them never discuss race, use it as a bullet point, or care. Again, I don't attend the parties, but I do know people who do and in discussions with them over the event, the philosophy, and the anger, race never pops up. It is more a deep seated anger over government not listening to them. And it is not directed soley at democrats. If you've been watching primaries across the nation, hand-picked, and party stroked candidates are having as much difficulty as anyone else.

I believe, and live my life in the way Dr. King spoke about his vision. I was a kid when he was making his speeches and ya know, they made sense. I could care less about your color or your race. What I do care about is how you interact with me and those around me. I expect civility, a degree of respect and that's what I give. If they don't come back in return, then I'm not wasting my time regardless of who you are or what you are. Liberal folk can't do that. I have yet to meet one who isn't poised on the edge of their seat mentally and practically looking for something they can decry. It is like a consuming disease.

As far as christian churches at ground zero, the bull droppings are falling around your feet. I'm not representing conservatives. I'm representing my opinions. I doubt conservatives would have a problem with a christian church being built there, but I'm also equally certain that someone from the left would.

The rest of what you wrote approaches drivel. What are you wanting times for? Me to explain what it means to be American? Lol, mostly what I think it means to be American is that life works best when people mind their own business. But you're down 70/30 in this debate. Since I will be working onsite next week, just walk outside and frame your discussion with 10 different people when it comes to islam, mosques, and ground zero. Considering the tripe you spew and the hatred you evidence, the percentage that interests me is how many chase you around the block a few times.

I did notice however, how you sidestepped the Greeks using your first amendment rights, the same right you would deprive the conservative half of the nation from using.

I did most of my travel in muslim countries before Bush, though now and again, I contract out in one or another. I'll agree there is a heightened animosity, but I won't agree that animosity didn't exist before. The US has been shitting in muslim back yards for a long time. Who was pissed at us depended mostly on whose yard we were shitting in at the time .

Do I have the right to determine whether or not they build a mosque? No. Do I have the same right you do to express my opinion on the subject. Fuck yes, as does everyone else in the US. If you'll close your mouth long enough to let the drivel subside enough so that you can actually see, that is what people are doing. The problem is, they aren't on your side and polls show the dislike crosses political boundaries, social boundaries, and racial boundaries.

Enough. I have to work and I'll point this back to a comment I made elsewhere, that there is generally less dissonance when talking to conservatives than liberals. Most conservatives I know will argue a point but as long as your point is valid and they can see the value in it, they're much more willing to come across with understanding than liberals are. Liberal folk seem to believe they';re the only one capable of logical thought and imbued with an intelligence that would be a gift from god if they believed in a god. The reality of that stance is one that comes across as elitist, irrational, hypocritical and sorely lacking in anything that makes much sense honestly.

Like defending a mosque and attacking homophobia.

Shrug.

< Message edited by StrangerThan -- 8/23/2010 8:58:08 AM >

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RE: Islamophobia in America - 8/23/2010 10:18:04 AM   
ScaryJello


Posts: 103
Joined: 10/19/2006
Status: offline
So a news corporation is benefiting from increased munitions sale? The news corporation is benefiting indirectly from the war, as is every other news organization that covers the war. They would be guilty of profiteering if they were deliberately causing or preventing from ending the war. They are not. They are merely reporting on it. Also how are they fostering dissent amongst our allies or neutral countries? Also they have provided no material assistance seeing as theyy are incapable of providing materials as they do not deal with materials in their business. Only information.

Treason. How are they aiding the enemy? By reporting on the war? By stating their opinion? Well if that is the case then many bloggers, soldiers and contractors are also guilty of treason by having voiced their opinion where it could be heard by others. Also being in a time of war or a time of peace is irrelevant to the question of whether or not the freedom of speech applies. The answer is that it applies regardless of war or peace.

Secondly, how have they betrayed their country for money? By commenting on things that they see and the logic(however flawed it may or may not be) that they follow?

Lastly, how does Rupert Murdoch having friends who may or may not be involved in the manufacture of a product used in the war, make him guilty? By that logic couldn't we also demand that The companies that make MREs could be guilty of treason and war profiteering as well since they profit from the war? What about Energizer or Dremel or any other company that makes items used by the military and contractors? You are claiming guilt by association with another person who may or may not have committed a crime. Simply ridiculous.

(in reply to samboct)
Profile   Post #: 95
RE: Islamophobia in America - 8/23/2010 10:24:40 AM   
Aneirin


Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Of course, the true purpose of this topic is to discuss the Anti-Muslim hysteria that seems to be taking over the United States.

And considering the venom in some people's posts, I think that many would be happier if they (the Muslims) were rounded up and put in camps or deported.


The cleansing of the hive

and eventually

It doesn't take an alien to create social cleansing, for it is a very human thing and all those that join the cause are falling prey to the very people who profit from disorder, you are becoming the army for the politicians and are already drawing your sides. So, where could this go, the expulsion of the undesirable or the defence of the minority in accordance with your founding fathers who wished America to be something other than the shite they had left behind.

In falling prey to other's designs is again going down the road of eugenics programmes popular in the American first half twentieth century, if it's not colour, then it is religion, the two things having in common the fact that they are minorities and therefore different, difference is seen as a threat and threats must be countered to feel safe, that is until the next difference comes to light, who is next I wonder, will there be a next, or will we be all thrown back to a less technological age, as without oil the world it seems is pretty much fucked.

Just out of interest what social grouping in America is the most reviled and threatening to the average American, is that group a minority ?



< Message edited by Aneirin -- 8/23/2010 10:25:45 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 96
RE: Islamophobia in America - 8/23/2010 10:30:30 AM   
subrob1967


Posts: 4591
Joined: 9/13/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ScaryJello


So a news corporation is benefiting from increased munitions sale? The news corporation is benefiting indirectly from the war, as is every other news organization that covers the war. They would be guilty of profiteering if they were deliberately causing or preventing from ending the war. They are not. They are merely reporting on it. Also how are they fostering dissent amongst our allies or neutral countries? Also they have provided no material assistance seeing as theyy are incapable of providing materials as they do not deal with materials in their business. Only information.

Treason. How are they aiding the enemy? By reporting on the war? By stating their opinion? Well if that is the case then many bloggers, soldiers and contractors are also guilty of treason by having voiced their opinion where it could be heard by others. Also being in a time of war or a time of peace is irrelevant to the question of whether or not the freedom of speech applies. The answer is that it applies regardless of war or peace.

Secondly, how have they betrayed their country for money? By commenting on things that they see and the logic(however flawed it may or may not be) that they follow?

Lastly, how does Rupert Murdoch having friends who may or may not be involved in the manufacture of a product used in the war, make him guilty? By that logic couldn't we also demand that The companies that make MREs could be guilty of treason and war profiteering as well since they profit from the war? What about Energizer or Dremel or any other company that makes items used by the military and contractors? You are claiming guilt by association with another person who may or may not have committed a crime. Simply ridiculous.


According to Joe's logic, Obama must be guilty too, after all he's friends with Jeffery Immelt, the CEO of GE, which manufactures plenty of Military components, not to mention NBC.

(in reply to ScaryJello)
Profile   Post #: 97
RE: Islamophobia in America - 8/23/2010 10:34:21 AM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline 		FR -

quote:

Ground Zero Imam Says U.S. Worse than al-Qaeda


New audio has surfaced of the imam behind the controversial mosque near Ground Zero allegedly telling an audience overseas that the United States has been far more deadly than al-Qaeda. "We tend to forget, in the West, that the United States has more Muslim blood on its hands than al-Qaeda has on its hands of innocent non Muslims," Feisal Abdul Rauf said at a 2005 lecture sponsored by the University of South Australia. After discussing the U.S.-led sanctions against Iraq under Saddam Hussein, Rauf went on to argue that America is to blame for its testy relationship with Islamic countries.

Audio at this link: http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=38673


Hes not preaching love and tolerance about the United States by any reach...


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Profile   Post #: 98
RE: Islamophobia in America - 8/23/2010 10:34:59 AM   
ScaryJello


Posts: 103
Joined: 10/19/2006
Status: offline 		Also anyone who owns stock in GE, L3, Lockheed-Martin, General Dynamics, Raytheon, FOx News, ABC, NBC, CBS or any other company that has made money from the war. And since stockholders receive dividends then they have received war money and have committed both treason and war profiteering.

(in reply to subrob1967)
Profile   Post #: 99
RE: Islamophobia in America - 8/23/2010 10:37:42 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity
Hes not preaching love and tolerance about the United States by any reach...


He's not preaching hate and destruction by any reach... 

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Profile   Post #: 100
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