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ORIGINAL: ModeratorEleven

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ORIGINAL: michaelGA2

what surprises me is, as many forums there are about this subject and the number of negative posts issued against Pros, they just don't seem to be able to get the hint.

You appear to be the one not getting the hint.  As has already been stated before, pros are just as welcome here as anyone else into the lifestyle, no matter what the handful of excessively vocal people who clearly have issues with pros might say.  I don't know how that could be any clearer.

XI

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oh i feel u.  i feel u would stay here til 2050 making excuses u cant defend.  u just keep on and on trying to make excuses as to why people buy u things

but u know.  and i know.

the real reason is nothing to do with contributing to a scene.

it's so u can get something for free and use it on any other slave too.

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Reasonable
Lordy..now I begin to realize exactly why so many of you GUYS are third strike artists.........
My heartfelt condolences ladies!!!!!

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michaelGA2
i wonder what the ratio of Pros are compared to use normal folks here on CM...i think CM is becoming a Pro site and it makes it more difficult to weed through the ads to find someone serious about finding their match. Too many people looking for a financial support here.

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One of these days, BlkTallFullfig, you and I are gonna go have lunch... ; )
TexasMaam

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ORIGINAL: BlkTallFullfig

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Reasonable
Lordy..now I begin to realize exactly why so many of you GUYS are third strike artists.........
My heartfelt condolences ladies!!!!!

THANK YOU for understanding, and for your condolences!   LOL

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They get the hint,micheal,do you?
The hint being,they have no time for cheapskates

OMG Thanks for saying it so simply/clearly.  I have dated/married very poor men, but I cannot stand a cheapskate, and would sooner give up sex (not that I'd need to given the volunteers and toys available, lol) than deal with a man who is a cheapskate.

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michaelGA2
i wonder what the ratio of Pros are compared to use normal folks here on CM...i think CM is becoming a Pro site and it makes it more difficult to weed through the ads to find someone serious about finding their match. Too many people looking for a financial support here.

So Michael that must be it; the reason you can't find a domina is because there are too many pros at collarme.   

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One of these days, BlkTallFullfig, you and I are gonna go have lunch... ; )
TexasMaam

 Absolutely TexasMaam, but we'll have to make it dinner since I get up late.   M      

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ORIGINAL: Proprietrix

I'm really seeing a trend here of submissives (or rather I should say fetishists?) being expected to offset the cost of the toys that are being used on them.

See, for me, toys aren't the foundation of my lifestyle. In fact, toys play a very small role. I can't speak for any Domme that puts an emphasis on toys, because I have no clue how things look from that perspective. If me and my submissives are happy, then the money has no bearing really. We could all instantly end up broke and living in a shack that leaks, and I gaurantee if I wanted to spend the evening spanking them, it would happen... toys or no toys.

If some submissive *expected* me to put him in some kind of thousand dollar bondage, there'd be no discussion about it. I'd just let him know he was barking up the wrong tree. To me, that just fits in perfectly with this whole theme of the Dominant not being there to satiate the submissive's fetish.

But then, I speak as someone more interested in the power exchange side of things than the S&M. Maybe if I were really heavy into fetish play, I might ask a sub to offset the cost... but even then I kind of doubt it. Because if *I* was really into it, I probably would put my money into it for my own enjoyment. Not unlike someone who is heavy into roleplaying. They put their own money into the books, dice, costumes, etc... Someone who is heavy into crafting, usually uses their own money to buy their craft items. I wouldn't expect someone to offset the cost of my hobby, even if I did let them enjoy it with me.

But I'm just not a materialistic person at all. I can live with "things" or I can live without them. I really just don't care. To me, it's more about the people. Is everyone healthy and happy? Do we enjoy one another's company? Does everyone feel loved and cared for? Is everyone safe? Respected?
Those kinds of things are what are important to me. And I can't get any of those in the form of money, a tribute, a toy, a gift.....  those things come from within.

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ORIGINAL: michaelGA2
You know, you are absolutley right about finding a Domme. maybe i'm hoping for a Domme with a little higher standards that that. someone with a little more class and someone that doesn't charge an hourly rate. someone who actually wants me for me and not my yearly gross income. you're right, i'm asking too much.

maybe I should look for a Mistress that sounds like a Capital One commercial.

one that starts out by asking: "What's in your wallet?"

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The "tribute" I want from my collared submissive is his time, attention and energy. Sure, it makes me happy when he buys me something. Doesn't matter if that something is a rose from a gas station stop that cost $1.98. That's tribute - that says he is thinking about me, cares about me and wants to give to me. He might also send me an MP3, or an e-card, or something else that doesn't cost anything but serves the same purpose. Yeah, as a domme, I want tribute. But money doesn't have to matter.

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That's beautifully said! 

What i think most subs on these boards are trying to imply is that there is nothing wrong with being a pro-Dom as long as you're upfront and honest about it from the beginning.  it's the Doms who initially post as if they are looking for a partner, then "bait and switch" later on and demand a tribute (in the form of a paypal transfer, no less!?!) that is tacky and tastless (and dishonest).

Power to the Pro-Doms, they have found a niche that serves them well, and both they and their clientele should be happy.. The honest Doms can embrace what they're doing and not be ashamed of it..  i (and i think i speak for most of the honest subs out here) just don't have the energy or time to invest in a potential relationship when the road eventually leads to an ATM machine and a tollbooth.  Please, shit or get off the pot, you're either a pro or your not.. there shouldn't be anything in between. 

What Najakcharmer said is beautiful.. gifts are part of any relationship and help you to feel cared for, loved, and appreciated.  Gifts (i'm sorry, tributes) should never be expected, and should NEVER be in the form of a Paypal transfer.. that's a buisness transaction, not a gift (sorry.. tribute).. (i must note a disclaimer: unless this is part of one's individual fetish..that's entirely different)..

i hope i didn't offend anyone.. it's just how i feel..  peace everyone!

(in reply to Najakcharmer)

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ORIGINAL: michaelGA2

i think you need to recheck that, i'm a long way off from NY...i'm in GA.

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as for my add, i tried having things in it, got help with my previous ad (which i deleted) and spent all that time and trouble to fill in all those Interests, it didn't help then...not sure it would help now. i have made a couple of friends on here (maybe about 4-5) but nothing serious.

i don't have a problem with putting time and effort into my journey...it's the money issue i'm not going put in. not to someone i do not know and cannot trust beyond the confines of monetary requirements. money is already tough to come by, why give it to a total stranger?

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ORIGINAL: michaelGA2
maybe i'm hoping for a Domme with a little higher standards that that. someone with a little more class and someone that doesn't charge an hourly rate. someone who actually wants me for me and not my yearly gross income. you're right, i'm asking too much.

maybe I should look for a Mistress that sounds like a Capital One commercial.

one that starts out by asking: "What's in your wallet?"

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I have dated/married very poor men, but I cannot stand a cheapskate, and would sooner give up sex (not that I'd need to given the volunteers and toys available, lol) than deal with a man who is a cheapskate.

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ORIGINAL: BlkTallFullfig
Being poor or financially comfortable has absolutely NOTHING to do with whether you possess a generous spirit of not.  M

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Thread Summarized:

Hookers - *Stomping up and down* "We are not hookers! We take your cash for sex services but honest we are not hookers!"

Johns - *Stomping up and down* "We are not Johns! We spend our cash for sex services but honest we are not Johns"

Reality - "Uh, yes you are."

(in reply to KarbonCopy)

unpantsed

I don't know that anybody's trying to label anything as "right" or "wrong" here. Certainly I wasn't. I think people are more interested in properly identifying something as what it is, and not what fanciful and often defensive assertions try to pretend it is.

I don't know that anybody here has said that charging a "tribute" (which is a fee if it's required) is "wrong." I think what people are saying (and I know I was) is that it's ridiculous to maintain that a person charging you money for the pleasure of their company is interested more in you than the money. Or even you at all without the money.

The "deviance" of a lifestyle doesn't magically suspend the laws of gravity or thermodynamics, or change the definitions of words and concepts, or the meaning of things like friendship and attachment. Dommes and subs are just as subject to those realities as anybody else. Down doesn't mysteriously become up just because you like to get spanked.

I certainly don't see anything wrong with professional domination. As I said, I've been on the receiving end of it quite a few times and I often found it enjoyable and worthwhile. But to try to maintain that it's a "personal relationship" (at least the part that's paid for) is imho absurd. And pretending that it is may well prove emotionally hurtful to people if they're not aware or won't admit they're pretending.

Denial is willful ignorance. And that can be the most devastating kind of all. No matter how "deviant" the denier.

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ORIGINAL: Najakcharmer

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ORIGINAL: michaelGA2

i could reply to this in force, but it has been my experience here that, when one expresses themsleves too much on this subject, they tend to get trampled and left for dead. so i shall digress for the good of the many...even if i don't agree with this portion of the lifestyle.

Okay....so don't go to a pro domme.

I firmly believe that everyone has the right to make honest and straightforward transactions of their time and energy for money.  I do not believe that prostitution should be a criminal act; women own their bodies and should therefore be allowed to rent them or charge for access if they please.  I'm not gonna go there, but I respect other people's right to do so.  I think that criminalizing prostitution or even considering it "immoral" is basically buying into the old male-dominated, Judeo-Christian morality that women do not own their own bodies and have no right to do with their bodies what they choose. 

I'm of two minds as to whether pro domming is prostitution.  Viewed and practiced one way it definitely is; viewed and practiced in a nonsexual way it can be more like therapy, and from another perspective it's a re-interpretation of the old male dominant expectation that a gentleman is supposed to take care of and support a lady.  Regardless of what you think it "really" is, it is everyone's personal adult choice whether or not to engage in this transaction.  There is definitely a much needed place for the pro domme in our community.  There are a lot of male subs who are not ready, not willing or not capable of having a healthy two way adult relationship with a dominant woman (or any woman, really).  They want to be "done" exactly to their fetish specifications, over and over again, exactly the same way each time.  They don't want to treat their partners like real people, or spend a lot of time and energy making their partners happy.  They just want to get "done".  It is a hell of a lot more fair for them to pay for a pro domme's time and energy and skill than for them to lead a woman on who wants and needs more than they are willing or able to give in a real relationship. 

Women who claim they aren't pros, but then ask for money or tribute, are being dishonest and deserve nothing but contempt.  But we lifestylers should be quite thankful for the existence of pro dommes, because they are an excellent place to refer those selfish "do-me" subs whom you really can't do much else with.  A man who lacks BDSM relationship skills (eg, consideration for his partner as a human being rather than a life support system for a whip) and who also lacks the desire to learn them really does need to go to a pro.  He is incapable of making any other positive contribution to a dominant partner's life, or of having any other kind of positive and fair transaction in a BDSM play session.   A pro session is really the only way he can have a BDSM interaction that is truly fair and beneficial to both parties involved.  So, God (and Goddess) bless the pro dommes, and let's cheer'em on.  They get paid to put up with shit so we don't have to.

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ORIGINAL: MichMasochist
So when I've walked into a pros dungeon I fain false civility and play along with her delusions, after all the tribut gets her to play the game.

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ORIGINAL: MsSonnetMarwood

The reality is that there will always be gents who want to use prodommes out there, ergo there will always be prodommes.

Your choice to utilize their services or not is...well - your choice.  As it should be.  No one is forcing men to spend money on prodommes.  Contempt and ranting isn't going to get them to go away.

Yes.  As male subs, you WILL spend a percentage of your time talking to hopeful lifestyle dommes, only to be told at some point, payment will be required, because there are those who are not upfront about it.   Then again, Dommes who are seeking relationships with male subs will also have their time wasted with wankers and players who aren't the least interested in a relationship.   And so on and so forth.  

You're not special enough to avoid this, and there is no amount of whining and bitching that will eradicate the simple truth that if you put yourself out in the universe to find something, you're going to find a LOT of what you DON'T want before you ultimately find what you do want. 

And guess what?  There are no guarantees, promises, money back or not, that you will ever find what you want.

So here's what I suggest.  Instead of losing what precious hair you have worrying about such matters that are NOT going to change, invest that energy in yourself and focus on things you CAN affect.  Really.  Self-created drama is an energy vampyre.  Invest yourself elsewhere.  Write your senator a letter about how gas prices are affecting you.   Read a book that will help you learn something new.  Volunteer at a local animal shelter.