quote:

ORIGINAL: jujubeeMB
And then the other part, about the rabid craving for one true way...maybe everyone should be sent an email when they join CM that just explains that there is no one true way, and this isn't some super selective elite club that you have to follow the rules or you'll get kicked out.

Forsooth!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jaybeee
I ask this because, at heart, I'm a kind leader. I'm quite aware that from time to time, obedience MUST be blind without , authority must be stamped without tolerance of delay but on the whole, I wish to lead with transparency and with caring; I'm not a dictator. So - what have your experiences been, striking a balance between being in love with your slave, and being a Master?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jaybeee
time to time, obedience MUST be blind without

quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL:pyroaquatic
My compassion and generosity have been terribly eroded and I will live my life gaining leverage over everything.

Ironically, compassion and generosity are two excellent ways to influence people. People will willingly die for ideals and not for anything less. Power out of fear only lasts until you turn your back. Many a Diplomacy game have I lost to fearful allies. Many have I won by attempting to lose. Granted, most of us can only inspire a tiny amount of love, respect, trust or even "this guy isn't too bad after a few drinks", but it'll go further and more naturally than "leverage" over weakness or desperation - emotional, monetary or physical.

Respect and trust is often what works for leaders. However, it's the love that's to die for. Not necessarily cuddly snuggle-bunny love. It could be the kind you'd feel for your fellow soldiers as you get killed unceremoniously.

quote:

ORIGINAL: WolfyMontgomery

Since Master doesn't have an account, I'll answer for him. Though since slaves aren't allowed to reply (har har...), I'll be sure to ask for a bunch of spankings from him since I'm being a bad girl.

Master wouldn't want to own something he didn't love. In part, his love of me is what makes him want to lead me and guide me and own me. I earn his love by serving him, by obeying him, by showing him how much I love him by groveling at his feet.

The more he's fallen in love with me, the more authoritative he's become with me, making sure I always meet his expectations and live up to his standards, making sure that he always lives up to my standards and keeping me happy, keeping the life in our relationship so that neither of us get 'lazy' or 'comfy' and letting our relationship slide.

So yes. If anything, the love makes his authority that much more.

quote:

ORIGINAL: WolfyMontgomery

SorceressJ, you're makin' me blush! -hides face-

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jaybeee

Hi, this question is ONLY to Masters, not mistresses or slaves, please (although if I've PM'ed you this link, then you're here by prior invitation regardless of status and so I DEFINITELY want your considered opinion). I've "Asked a Slave" a similar question and the results were pretty uninformative, so with that refinement in mind, here goes!

quote:

ORIGINAL: BrokenSaint

It's a fine line. But there are so many variables involved, depending on how one looks at love in general, and the particulars of a specific love.

Can it lead to a loss of control? Sure. I'd figure that how likely that is to happen is more a function of the discipline one keeps over themselves rather than on another.

I haven't had much difficulty in that area. I tend towards an almost unhealthy amount of introspection and analysis of my own actions, makes it difficult to lose myself in most things. Allows for a kind of disconnect gap between actions and emotions, for lack of a better word. You may also find some insight from the gorean concept of a love slave as well.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shadow-tiger

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jaybeee

Do you see any conflict between how much love/affection you can lavish on a slave, and your dominance over her? If you are IN love, do you think there's a point at which too much lovey-dovey stuff, if it starts to cut into the 'stern' times, will lead to a loss of authority? This actually hasn't been my experience in the two relationships I've had since I dropped the whole societal bs about me wanting to be in an "equal" partnership; I've led and so far, I'd gotten the mix correct. But I can't say I was IN love either time; I get the feeling all the rules will be tossed out the window when I'm head over heels.

Alright, I'll come into this fresh from the OP. For me love is an integral part of a relationship, especially if I'm going to take someone as a slave. In a sense for me, the way I interact with someone is an expression of my feelings. Or to put it simply, if I don't love or feel affection for my girl, I'm not going to have much interest in how she serves me. I'm guessing your worry is that you won't want to be stern, demanding, perhaps downright mean if you're in love.

quote:

Believe me, it's so much more fun that way! Because if you're pissed, it hits home that much more. So many things that can be shared when you get really close to someone. Although closeness doesn't imply love, for me they can be one and the same. Whether or not the rules change when you fall head over heels is dependent on what you really want deep down. You might find yourself being a bit more gentle, less demanding. You might find you're more so, but for different reasons. How will you know unless you try?

quote:

quote:

I ask this because, at heart, I'm a kind leader. I'm quite aware that from time to time, obedience MUST be blind without , authority must be stamped without tolerance of delay but on the whole, I wish to lead with transparency and with caring; I'm not a dictator.

See this right here I have to disagree with. I don't do blind obedience ever, it just doesn't ring true for me. Well alright, there might be a certain type of play where that comes in, but never in day to day life. And authority doesn't need to be wielded like a hammer, as being gentle, a little subtle and nothing but kind may achieve the same result without the submissive realizing it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: UniqueRaven

Honestly, I see this as - like so many things - up to the two involved in the relationship, and their compatibility.

I did have this situation with my previous Master. Over the years, he came to love me so much and placed me on a pedestal, that he was no longer able to control, guide, and "Master" me - which is a fundamental need of mine.

quote:

So this did cause so stress between us, and ultimately contributed to our eventual separation. I need that firm hand, that strong support, and someone to provide that structure - structure that allows me to simply relax, be myself as a slave, and exist fully in his service.

quote:

So what does that mean for me? I can serve anyone. I can - I am capable of it. However, the best reason (for me), and the only reason I will serve someone again at this stage in my life is because I adore my Owner/Master, and have the other aspects of the Owner/property relationship in addition to simply service. So in that case, yes, I am seeking love - I want it - but I need a man who needs to be an Owner like I need to be a slave. And then when we're both in that authentic place of simply being ourselves in the power exchange and the structure, then love simply is just there - and isn't a worry or a concern.

quote:

Truly, worrying about love in an M/s relationship is just the same as worrying about protocol, or structure, or rituals, or anything else. You do what works for you and your slave - and don't worry about what falls by the wayside, as it's part of being human in an authentic, loving, relationship.

quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel

Within the concept of M/s -- not any other concept as i don't have experience with any other -- to me don't tell me you love me, show me you own me exists.  I need to love, i have no choice but to utterly love the man who masters me.  How can i do anything else, for in his mastery he has reached into the very core of me and grasped it as his.  However, i don't want or need to hear about HIS love because for me, his ownership is the "love" i need from him.  To me, if that ownership is lessened or the mastery is removed to the point my needs are no longer fed, then to me, the concept that for many would probably deem love -- is null and void.

I do believe that on many levels with regard to slavery, for many men -- not all but many men, loving a slave does in fact alter their relationship and the authority.  It may not be a complete break down of the authority but the motivation i guess you can say is different and for many love then does circumvent the ownership.  And in that difference for many men, may in fact cause a struggle in them and, therefore, cause a breakdown in the control and mastery.

quote:

ORIGINAL: CaringandReal

quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel

Within the concept of M/s -- not any other concept as i don't have experience with any other -- to me don't tell me you love me, show me you own me exists.  I need to love, i have no choice but to utterly love the man who masters me.  How can i do anything else, for in his mastery he has reached into the very core of me and grasped it as his.  However, i don't want or need to hear about HIS love because for me, his ownership is the "love" i need from him.  To me, if that ownership is lessened or the mastery is removed to the point my needs are no longer fed, then to me, the concept that for many would probably deem love -- is null and void.

I do believe that on many levels with regard to slavery, for many men -- not all but many men, loving a slave does in fact alter their relationship and the authority.  It may not be a complete break down of the authority but the motivation i guess you can say is different and for many love then does circumvent the ownership.  And in that difference for many men, may in fact cause a struggle in them and, therefore, cause a breakdown in the control and mastery.

This is one of the very few messages I've read on here where, after reading it, I think, "I can't add anything more." Really, you say it all and say it quite clearly. This post expresses not only my attitude but also my experience perfectly. Thanks for representing the slave contingent. ;)

Ok, I will add one thing, but it's only speculation. Perhaps the love getting in the way of ownership issue doesn't start to cause problems until you're well along in the relationship. This could be why some people are expressing denial of this occuring: their relationships may still be "relatively "new? For my last relationship, it didn't start to be a serious issue until about year 10 or 11.