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RE: Is this a threat? sedition? or just posturing? - 10/26/2010 2:31:39 PM   
PatrickG38


Posts: 338
Joined: 10/8/2010
Status: offline 		Well said.

(in reply to Lucylastic)
Profile   Post #: 441
RE: Is this a threat? sedition? or just posturing? - 10/26/2010 3:32:26 PM   
lockedaway


Posts: 1720
Joined: 3/15/2007
Status: offline 		Excellent post. 

Lucy wants to complain...I think it was Lucy, it makes little difference...about illegals being discriminated against by conservatives.  The key word is that they are illegals, right?  She wants to complain about "people of color", I assume she largely means blacks, not having the same opportunities as other people?  Like who?  The vast majority of us went to public school.  We read the same books, we received the same homework, we either did the homework or we didn't, and we became who we became.  This is a conservative's problem?  The problem, as most thinking people understand it to be, is that everyone is born with different abilities (thus the fiction that all people are greated equal--they are ONLY equal under the law, not genetics) as so people are going to rise to different levels.  What was the line from "Caddy Shack"?  "Well, the world needs ditch diggers too."  Overwhelmingly, we are all afforded the same opportunities in this country. 

Who gives a fuck about the working poor?  If our country cared about the working poor, we wouldn't have taxed corporate America into the arms of Mexico, India, China, Indonesia and a host of other countries.  It used to be that a kid could drop out of college, work in the local foundary and actually buy a house.  How many of you have seen a foundary lately?  No...really...how many?  The last "foundary" I lived by was actually an aluminum smelting plant in Kearney, NJ and like every other form of industry...it relocated.  It relocated due to taxes, unions, property taxes, regulations (excessive or not, improper or not, whatever).  Yes...there is working poor in this country like never before.  Does anyone want to pinpoint when it became such an epidemic?  Anyone care to quote Ross Perot?

So fuck the working poor.  Fuck them, fuck them, fuck them.  This country created them in the last 20 years and all of us are losing ground; doctors, now lawyers, soon teachers and even cops.  Enjoy the ride folks.  The darkest part of the storm is still ahead. 

(in reply to Real0ne)
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RE: Is this a threat? sedition? or just posturing? - 10/26/2010 3:50:20 PM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		you are one of the most enjoyable people on this forum to ignore.
you make my point so well.



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RE: Is this a threat? sedition? or just posturing? - 10/26/2010 4:22:51 PM   
Real0ne


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Joined: 10/25/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

read the thread, we have established malum in se is not malum prohibitum, and it is trivial to see that the 17 enumerations are not the law of the land.

you may go over and lick the toilet seat. 

is there a fuckin full moon or what? or a retard convention somewhere?


Ok I will bite at this foolishness that I know in advance will turn up nothing productive.

For the benefit of a doubt explain to us what that is and precisely how it applies to the constitution as you know it?

I look forward to an enlightening discourse on the subject.



_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to mnottertail)
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RE: Is this a threat? sedition? or just posturing? - 10/26/2010 4:27:29 PM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Do you know why Bush ran the Iraq war off the books there, Perry Mason?

Nothing in the law prohibits it.

Damn unsportsmanlike, we all say, nevertheless.......

it is only malum in se, not malum prohibitum. 

You should get a day job, your nightschool correspondence courses from the Wesley Snipes School of Law at Batshit University are not gonna cover your traffic tickets.


its outside their jurisdiction.

the law states 17 specific actions they have authority and they do not have the authority to go beyond it in as much as the constitution is concerned.

All you are doing is proving my point you know.

They were not granted the authority to make shit up as they go!  

period  regardless of the convoluted sophistry you wish to use as your reasoning or lack thereof.

SHOW ME where they were granted authority to go beyond or expand the 17 enumerated points of authority.



leaps tall buildings both brains tied behind my back!

at least come up with something this time I have to hit google so I dont fall asleep.


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 445
RE: Is this a threat? sedition? or just posturing? - 10/26/2010 4:49:32 PM   
DMFParadox


Posts: 1405
Joined: 9/11/2007
Status: offline 		At this point, I feel encouraged to go back to some of my old poly sci books and read more. And buy some new ones. Positive and negative freedoms? This is so logical I'm shocked it took so long for us to be teaching it in school.

This thread has gotten too difficult to follow quickly, though. Too many claims in a stutterstep narrative.


_____________________________

bloody hell, get me some aspirin and a whiskey straight

"The role of gender in society is the most complicated thing I’ve ever spent a lot of time learning about, and I’ve spent a lot of time learning about quantum mechanics." - Randall Munroe

(in reply to Real0ne)
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RE: Is this a threat? sedition? or just posturing? - 10/26/2010 5:06:59 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		Sheesh,dialmback on the caffeine buddy.Perhaps try a little de-caf.

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If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to lockedaway)
Profile   Post #: 447
RE: Is this a threat? sedition? or just posturing? - 10/26/2010 5:13:10 PM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		I love it when people keep posting to you once you have told em. you dont read what they type.
that last word thing really gets them nuts




_____________________________

(•_•)
<) )╯SUCH
/ \

\(•_•)
( (> A NASTY
/ \

(•_•)
<) )> WOMAN
/ \

Duchess Of Dissent
Dont Hate Love

(in reply to slvemike4u)
Profile   Post #: 448
RE: Is this a threat? sedition? or just posturing? - 10/26/2010 5:30:40 PM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline 		Actually, that sounds more like a teabagger you're quoting than Lucy. They all seem to have a well developed sense of entitlement, after all.

And if you stopped reading her a long time ago, how do you know what she said in her last post?

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I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to lockedaway)
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RE: Is this a threat? sedition? or just posturing? - 10/26/2010 5:34:24 PM   
lockedaway


Posts: 1720
Joined: 3/15/2007
Status: offline 		REALLY, Moombeam?  Really?  The Tea Party people are asking the government for welfare?  Reeeeeaaally?  Please go back into your coma and let the adults talk. 

Hey....Moonbeam....tell me ONE entitlement, one form of welfare that the tea party has as a platform.  Really.  Let's have a mature and adult exchange of ideas.  What "service" is be advanced by the Tea Party that requires the government to issue a check to them on a monthly basis?

(in reply to Moonhead)
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RE: Is this a threat? sedition? or just posturing? - 10/26/2010 5:46:36 PM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline 		Apart from the fact that most of them seem to be flabby white guys on social security, many of whom turn up to their rallies on invalid scooters, you mean? That's a couple of handouts right there.

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to lockedaway)
Profile   Post #: 451
RE: Is this a threat? sedition? or just posturing? - 10/26/2010 5:55:01 PM   
lockedaway


Posts: 1720
Joined: 3/15/2007
Status: offline 		LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL yeah...they should be more like you, right?  They should be people that want the government to provide cradle to grave services.  They should be people that don't consider themselves to be self-governing.  They should be people that are all for a 90% tax bracket so long as they get an 800 sq. ft. unit in a honeycomb to live in.  Right Moonbeam?  No independence.  No free market.  No competition.  No keeping the fruits of your labor.  Nope....equal poverty for all.  THAT is what you want, right Moonbeam?  For you to say that what is in my post to Lucy sounds like the Tea Party reveals either deep seated stupidity or duplicity.  Take your pick.

And I asked you a question.  Name one service...one entitlement demanded by the Tea Party that requires the government to issue a check on a monthly basis and you could not.  And you cannot. 

(in reply to Moonhead)
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RE: Is this a threat? sedition? or just posturing? - 10/26/2010 5:59:02 PM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline 		And you insulted me before asking anything. Think that's a civilised way to go getting an answer?

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to lockedaway)
Profile   Post #: 453
RE: Is this a threat? sedition? or just posturing? - 10/26/2010 6:04:10 PM   
lockedaway


Posts: 1720
Joined: 3/15/2007
Status: offline 		Answer what I asked you.    What is your goal?  Do you just want to spew your liberal, hand out, Nanny state beliefs or do you want a an exchange of ideas on the merits that seek to find a common ground?  What the f*** are you trying to accomplish?  If you want to debate the merits of a socialist nanny state vs. a capitalist state with a limited central government, I will have that free exchange of ideas with you.

So...if the latter is your goal, answer the question.  But do it quickly because it is late here and my last client just left so I would love to go home and maybe eat a little dinner and watch a little news.

(in reply to Moonhead)
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RE: Is this a threat? sedition? or just posturing? - 10/26/2010 6:07:24 PM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Oddly enough, i didnt hear a threat... nor did i hear a warning. I heard desperation.

Oddly enough tazzy, I don't disagree with you.

I don't think his comments were helpful, and I don't think that there was any advantage to his uttering the comments, and plenty of downside to doing so.

Firm

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Some people are just idiots.

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RE: Is this a threat? sedition? or just posturing? - 10/26/2010 6:25:11 PM   
lockedaway


Posts: 1720
Joined: 3/15/2007
Status: offline 		Just what I thought, Moonbeam, you would respond with NOTHING which reveals your duplicity.  I wish it were only ignorance.  I wish you had no idea what the Tea Party (which really in the grand scheme of things isn't a political party at all but a mere reinvigoration of the Republican party) stood for.  But you do.  So that means that what you said was totally dishonest and manifests a severe lack of character.  You argue for the sake of argument.

But...like I said....I'm outta here.  The Day is Done.  Who wrote that?  Henry Wadsworth Longfellow and for those of you that enjoy a little poetry....here it is:

The day is done and the darkness falls from the wings of night
as a feather is wafted downward from an eagle in his flight.
I can see the lights of the village gleam through the rain and the mist
and a feeling of sadness comes o'er me that my soul can not resist.

A feeling of sadness and longing that is not akin to pain
and resembles sorrow only as the mist resembles the rain.
Come...read to me some poem.  Some simple and heartfelt lay
that will soothe this restless feeling and banish the cares of the day.

Not from the grand old Masters, not from the bards sublime,
whose distant footsteps echo through the corridors of time.
For like strains of martial music, their mighty thoughts suggest,
life's endless toil and endeavor....and tonight I long for rest.

Read from some humbler poet whose songs gushed from his heart
as showers from the clouds of summer or tears from the eyelids start.
Who, through long days of labor (a concept unknown to liberals) and nights devoid of ease,
still heard in his soul the music of wonderful melodies.

Such songs have the power to quiet the restless pulse of care
and come like the Benediction that follows after prayer.
Then read from the treasured volume the poem of thy choice
and lend to the rhyme of the poet, the beauty of thy voice.

And the night shall be filled with music!! 
And the cares that infest the day,
shall fold their tents like the Arabs
and as silently steal away.

Longfellow wrote some great shit. 

(in reply to Moonhead)
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RE: Is this a threat? sedition? or just posturing? - 10/26/2010 8:55:06 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DMFParadox

At this point, I feel encouraged to go back to some of my old poly sci books and read more. And buy some new ones. Positive and negative freedoms? This is so logical I'm shocked it took so long for us to be teaching it in school.

This thread has gotten too difficult to follow quickly, though. Too many claims in a stutterstep narrative.



not sure exactly what you are talking about but positive law is law that is coded and promulgated.

negative law is not quite as specific and has different meanings but it is also used to contrast positive law in that they are not written, and rights fall into that category because you can add rights anytime you want up until you infringe on another.


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to DMFParadox)
Profile   Post #: 457
RE: Is this a threat? sedition? or just posturing? - 10/27/2010 12:10:27 AM   
DMFParadox


Posts: 1405
Joined: 9/11/2007
Status: offline 		No, not positive law - positive freedom. I.e., freedom to do things. Versus negative freedom, I.e., freedom from unwanted influences and/or actions.

That's kind of a big fucking 'DUH!' I'm free to speak and free to not get murdered. Mostly. On the other hand, I'm not really free to go around murdering other people, much as I'd like to. Steps would be taken at that point.

So, 'negative' freedom. It's brilliant in its simplicity.

I imagine you're wondering why I might be excited over something so basic. Pretty much this: there are people in school right now who, if not told about how freedoms work this way, simply wouldn't get it. Freedom as we were taught in school was kind of a big fat Santa Claus.


_____________________________

bloody hell, get me some aspirin and a whiskey straight

"The role of gender in society is the most complicated thing I’ve ever spent a lot of time learning about, and I’ve spent a lot of time learning about quantum mechanics." - Randall Munroe

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 458
RE: Is this a threat? sedition? or just posturing? - 10/27/2010 12:13:56 AM   
DMFParadox


Posts: 1405
Joined: 9/11/2007
Status: offline 		Come to think of it though, there are possibilities of Orwellian doubleplusgoodspeak in this 'negative freedom' business... but eh. What it replaced wasn't perfect either.

_____________________________

bloody hell, get me some aspirin and a whiskey straight

"The role of gender in society is the most complicated thing I’ve ever spent a lot of time learning about, and I’ve spent a lot of time learning about quantum mechanics." - Randall Munroe

(in reply to DMFParadox)
Profile   Post #: 459
RE: Is this a threat? sedition? or just posturing? - 10/27/2010 4:12:31 AM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lockedaway

Answer what I asked you.    What is your goal?  Do you just want to spew your liberal, hand out, Nanny state beliefs or do you want a an exchange of ideas on the merits that seek to find a common ground?  What the f*** are you trying to accomplish?  If you want to debate the merits of a socialist nanny state vs. a capitalist state with a limited central government, I will have that free exchange of ideas with you.

So...if the latter is your goal, answer the question.  But do it quickly because it is late here and my last client just left so I would love to go home and maybe eat a little dinner and watch a little news.

You want a free exchange of ideas?
Yeah, right. Just like Osama bin Laden wants a bacon sandwich and a gin and tonic.

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to lockedaway)
Profile   Post #: 460
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