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RE: Not your average intro... - 10/28/2010 1:35:53 PM

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Isn't one of the most degrading things you can do to a disabled person to treat them as if they're less capable?

Perhaps, she may not be able to have sex with you, but she probably still has the capacity to participate in your decision to seek sexual fulfillment elsewhere.

(in reply to KingBee68)

RE: Not your average intro... - 10/28/2010 1:38:21 PM

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Actually this is a typical introduction, but welcome anyway!

I do know a debilitating illness, but I guess I am in better shape because I can have sex and admit I am clueless as to what could make it so that I couldn't. However, my husband was afriad of hurting me... he said... but he also said I was the best sex he ever had and it took him years to get over the loss of it and me. I do have to wonder which he was lying about. You really can't have it both ways. You see, if you are that ill that you cannot have sex, many would understand the physical needs and approve of their beloved meeting those needs. Doesn't she love you back? Why is she so closed minded that she cannot face her limitations and meet your needs however that must come by?

Of course there is an aspect that you might consider her pain in being ill and not wish to hurt her, so how do you overcome the issue of when she finds out that you weren't forthright with her and hurt her so deeply that her illness so devastating as it is already, would become far worse with the pain of what you have done?

I'm sorry, I would like to be kind and I think that being realistic is kind, although it might not appear that way. Your story isn't making much sense if you care so deeply for her. She either understands and lets you meet your very real needs and you do so in a honest manner that will not hurt her more or you risk taking a chance that this route you have chosen could make her more ill. The closed mind is not in the answers you are finding here... but rest solely within your own domain.

_____________________________

No matter how old a woman gets, some men will think she was born yesterday! ROFL... I love this place!

(in reply to KingBee68)

RE: Not your average intro... - 10/28/2010 1:39:47 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Twoshoes

Isn't one of the most degrading things you can do to a disabled person to treat them as if they're less capable?

Perhaps, she may not be able to have sex with you, but she probably still has the capacity to participate in your decision to seek sexual fulfillment elsewhere.

I think I love you!

_____________________________

No matter how old a woman gets, some men will think she was born yesterday! ROFL... I love this place!

(in reply to Twoshoes)

RE: Not your average intro... - 10/28/2010 1:42:14 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: KingBee68
have my way with attractive, curvaceous, submissive women.

Not "looking for a best friend." Not "looking for someone who understands me." Looking for a piece of hot meat.

All you have to do is to find a woman who is attractive, curvaceous, and looking to play second fiddle. Someone who has a lot of options who is willing to settle for not very much. Such people do exist, but they are uncommon, and their morals are not as high as I would prefer to have in my life.

Do you really think you can lie forever to the woman who knows you better than you know yourself?

Your situation is a drama bomb waiting to go off, and adulterous escapism will not make that any better.

Straight-up advice: I think you should pay for it, and tell your wife that's what you're doing. Don't ask permission. Tell her you had to find some way to get your dick wet, but you don't love any woman but her, and this was the best solution you could figure out. She will be short-term upset and long-term relieved. Dead serouis.

_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to KingBee68)

RE: Not your average intro... - 10/28/2010 1:56:07 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BonesFromAsh

KB, don't you see the closed-mindedness of your statement above?

Sorry, no.

quote:

So far, your posts both here and on the other thread BurntKitty linked in the beginning give me the impression you're trying very hard to justify your actions.

My question is...to who?

There is probably some truth in that. I do feel really guilty about this. That said, closed-mindedness is a hot button for me. Has been my whole life. Really gets my back up.

(in reply to BonesFromAsh)

RE: Not your average intro... - 10/28/2010 1:59:57 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
These forums are not all about sex. Maybe Alt or AFF, but these are more focused on bondage, discipline, sadism, masochism, and power dynamics.

And BDSM and sex aren't completely and totally intertwined? Riiiiiight. Do you have some idea how ridiculous that sounds?

(in reply to LadyPact)

RE: Not your average intro... - 10/28/2010 2:00:50 PM

WinsomeDefiance

Posts: 6719
Joined: 8/7/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

quote:

ORIGINAL: Twoshoes

Isn't one of the most degrading things you can do to a disabled person to treat them as if they're less capable?

Perhaps, she may not be able to have sex with you, but she probably still has the capacity to participate in your decision to seek sexual fulfillment elsewhere.

I think I love you!

I think I do too.

(in reply to Lockit)

RE: Not your average intro... - 10/28/2010 2:04:58 PM

Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: KingBee68
And BDSM and sex aren't completely and totally intertwined? Riiiiiight. Do you have some idea how ridiculous that sounds?

You have just demonstrated the fact that you are an utter newb. You will have a hard time attracting submissives unless you learn some reality quick.

One example: http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/Content?oid=17757

_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to KingBee68)

RE: Not your average intro... - 10/28/2010 2:06:36 PM

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Joined: 3/16/2006
From: London, England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: KingBee68

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
These forums are not all about sex. Maybe Alt or AFF, but these are more focused on bondage, discipline, sadism, masochism, and power dynamics.

And BDSM and sex aren't completely and totally intertwined? Riiiiiight. Do you have some idea how ridiculous that sounds?

<Taps Clue-O-Meter>

Shit. Background levels only

(in reply to KingBee68)

RE: Not your average intro... - 10/28/2010 2:13:12 PM

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Joined: 9/1/2008
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OP: I was in a marriage without sex for more than a decade. I know what it can be like, and how difficult it can be. But I have to say that I believe you are going down the wrong path here. While your wife may not desire/be able to have sex with you, it does not negate your obligation not to dishonor her by going outside your marriage without her consent.

BDSM relationships are built from trust between the parties. By pursuing this path, you are showing right up front that you are not someone who can be in any way trusted - because you are actively engaging in betraying a trust from someone who is supposed to be the most important person to you in the whole world...Very few will be willing to engage with you specifically because of this.

Further, by doing this, you create a situation where you can really -never- come out to her with your need, nor the fact that you are kinky. It creates an instant explosion by mixing these things with deception and betrayal that will shut her down completely and hurt her more than your simply expressing your needs to her ever could.

I feel for your situation, but I hope you think again about this path. It can only end in tears and lawyers...

_____________________________

I am on a journey of authenticity and self.

(in reply to WinsomeDefiance)

RE: Not your average intro... - 10/28/2010 2:14:22 PM

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Joined: 10/28/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

I do know a debilitating illness, but I guess I am in better shape because I can have sex and admit I am clueless as to what could make it so that I couldn't.

First, thank you for your thoughtful response. To her, he touch of my hand on hers feels like sandpaper on raw skin. (That's her description.) So, much of the time, I can't even touch her. I'll let you extrapolate the pain she feels in her more delicate areas.

quote:

You see, if you are that ill that you cannot have sex, many would understand the physical needs and approve of their beloved meeting those needs. Doesn't she love you back? Why is she so closed minded that she cannot face her limitations and meet your needs however that must come by?

Of course she loves me back. I am to blame for this situation... when things started to get really bad, she felt awful about the inability to be intimate. What would you say to your spouse/partner in such a situation? I reassured her. Regularly, sincerely and vigorously. Months went by. Then a year, then two. The worse things got, the more reassurance she needed - and I gave it. And now that things have started to be unbearable for me, I'm supposed to just pull the rug out from her? I can't imagine doing that.

quote:

Of course there is an aspect that you might consider her pain in being ill and not wish to hurt her, so how do you overcome the issue of when she finds out that you weren't forthright with her and hurt her so deeply that her illness so devastating as it is already, would become far worse with the pain of what you have done?

It sounds like you think that's inevitable (her finding out). I don't see it that way. People cheat on their spouses without getting caught all the time, don't they? I don't know, maybe I'm deluding myself. Maybe I'm choosing to believe I can do this (without her finding out) because I want so badly to get some physical release.

(in reply to Lockit)

RE: Not your average intro... - 10/28/2010 2:21:20 PM

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Joined: 10/28/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1
Not "looking for a best friend." Not "looking for someone who understands me." Looking for a piece of hot meat.

Yes. A piece of hot meat who is also looking for a piece of hot meat. Ideally, someone who, like me, is also married and has needs that aren't being met - and yet has no desire to see the marriage end. Is that really so terrible?

quote:

Such people do exist, but they are uncommon, and their morals are not as high as I would prefer to have in my life.

Personally, I wouldn't equate such views/behavior with immorality, but I guess we all draw our own lines.

quote:

Do you really think you can lie forever to the woman who knows you better than you know yourself?

Your situation is a drama bomb waiting to go off, and adulterous escapism will not make that any better.

Straight-up advice: I think you should pay for it, and tell your wife that's what you're doing. Don't ask permission. Tell her you had to find some way to get your dick wet, but you don't love any woman but her, and this was the best solution you could figure out. She will be short-term upset and long-term relieved. Dead serouis.

I appreciate the advice. I really do. But I think it would be easier to remain celibate than to shake her foundation that way...

Wow. I'm kind of surprised that just popped out of my brain. Guess I've got some soul searching to do.

(in reply to RedMagic1)

RE: Not your average intro... - 10/28/2010 2:23:24 PM

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You seem to equate your reassurances to her as a negation of your basic physical needs as a human being...not so. It is possible to be completely supportive of her, of your marriage, and still acknowledge that you have needs. It is not pulling any sort of rug out from under her, IMO...it is showing that you are still there, committed, and wanting her consent for you to be able to stay there.

Over time, this will build resentment in you and that will put what I can only imagine would be even more distance between you and she. Similarly, will going outside the marriage. Cheating is a LARGE rock in your emotional backpack and almost every decision will be clouded by it, touched by it. I think you also have to ask yourself if you are the sort of person that can actually live with that sort of deception between you and she? Every day for the rest of your life? Really?

_____________________________

I am on a journey of authenticity and self.

(in reply to KingBee68)

RE: Not your average intro... - 10/28/2010 2:25:14 PM

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KingBee,

I do know the sandpaper on the hand problem. Hell, even a slight breeze could completely unnerve me and send me into physical fits. There were times when sex was painful and life was hell. There are medications that can help with this. I was lucky and this problem didn't last for me, but when it did, I do have to say honestly it was stress that made it worse.

I do believe that you will find, many here have overcome many illness and physical problems that are similar. Your frustration is apparent and I do understand, but you are walking on thin ice. Try to hear what we are saying because you are placing yourself in danger of losing far too much, even if it is only respect.

I would be willing to speak with you in email at least once to maybe direct you to some links that would provide some support for you. Not professional, but other men that are in the same place you may be in. I think that could assist you far more than some spice on the side. You aren't the only one and few unless they are unstable will fall for the wife can't do it, so lets keep this on the down-low... most often, the type of person that would be willing to do so, end up spilling the beans because they didn't have much honor in the first place. Think man... and not from a needy or horny place, but a place of worth and determination to do the right thing and sort this out the right way. The right way is the way where no one is so hurt that it leaves a life wound.

_____________________________

No matter how old a woman gets, some men will think she was born yesterday! ROFL... I love this place!

(in reply to KingBee68)

RE: Not your average intro... - 10/28/2010 2:25:49 PM

Posts: 25
Joined: 10/28/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1
You have just demonstrated the fact that you are an utter newb. You will have a hard time attracting submissives unless you learn some reality quick.

One example: http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/Content?oid=17757

If I've presented myself as anything other than a newb, it was unintentional. That said, I think anyone who thinks BDSM isn't about sex is deluding themselves. Even if the BDSM play kept all the genitals and nipples and butt cheeks prudishly tucked away, you're still stimulating the greatest of all the errogenous zones - the brain.

(in reply to RedMagic1)

RE: Not your average intro... - 10/28/2010 2:29:56 PM

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Joined: 10/28/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: OttersSwim

OP: I was in a marriage without sex for more than a decade. I know what it can be like, and how difficult it can be. But I have to say that I believe you are going down the wrong path here. While your wife may not desire/be able to have sex with you, it does not negate your obligation not to dishonor her by going outside your marriage without her consent.

BDSM relationships are built from trust between the parties. By pursuing this path, you are showing right up front that you are not someone who can be in any way trusted - because you are actively engaging in betraying a trust from someone who is supposed to be the most important person to you in the whole world...Very few will be willing to engage with you specifically because of this.

Further, by doing this, you create a situation where you can really -never- come out to her with your need, nor the fact that you are kinky. It creates an instant explosion by mixing these things with deception and betrayal that will shut her down completely and hurt her more than your simply expressing your needs to her ever could.

I feel for your situation, but I hope you think again about this path. It can only end in tears and lawyers...

OK. Wow. That really hits home. You've just made me really rethink all of this.

(in reply to OttersSwim)

RE: Not your average intro... - 10/28/2010 2:36:54 PM

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Joined: 10/28/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: OttersSwim

You seem to equate your reassurances to her as a negation of your basic physical needs as a human being...not so. It is possible to be completely supportive of her, of your marriage, and still acknowledge that you have needs. It is not pulling any sort of rug out from under her, IMO...it is showing that you are still there, committed, and wanting her consent for you to be able to stay there.

Over time, this will build resentment in you and that will put what I can only imagine would be even more distance between you and she. Similarly, will going outside the marriage. Cheating is a LARGE rock in your emotional backpack and almost every decision will be clouded by it, touched by it. I think you also have to ask yourself if you are the sort of person that can actually live with that sort of deception between you and she? Every day for the rest of your life? Really?

You're absolutely right. There's no way I could live with that. My god... thank you so much.

(in reply to OttersSwim)

RE: Not your average intro... - 10/28/2010 2:37:42 PM

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Joined: 9/7/2010
From: Here To Eternity.
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: KingBee68

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
These forums are not all about sex. Maybe Alt or AFF, but these are more focused on bondage, discipline, sadism, masochism, and power dynamics.

And BDSM and sex aren't completely and totally intertwined? Riiiiiight. Do you have some idea how ridiculous that sounds?

I have many a top that I enjoy playing with at public dungeons. They're not sexual partners, they're pain play partners.
So, no, BDSM and sex are not completely intertwined for everyone. Be careful not to paint with such a broad brush.

quote:

It sounds like you think that's inevitable (her finding out). I don't see it that way. People cheat on their spouses without getting caught all the time, don't they? I don't know, maybe I'm deluding myself. Maybe I'm choosing to believe I can do this (without her finding out) because I want so badly to get some physical release.

I'll use your answer: Riiiiiight. Do you have some idea how ridiculous that sounds?

I'll take "Divorce lawyers love cheaters" for 1000, Alex.

_____________________________

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(in reply to KingBee68)

RE: Not your average intro... - 10/28/2010 2:47:37 PM

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Joined: 10/28/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

KingBee,

I do know the sandpaper on the hand problem. Hell, even a slight breeze could completely unnerve me and send me into physical fits. There were times when sex was painful and life was hell. There are medications that can help with this.

We've tried EVERYTHING. She's been to countless specialists, naturopaths, herbalists, acupuncturists, etc. etc. We've sold everything we own to pay for alternative medicine treatments that aren't covered by my health insurance. Nothing has worked. It's been over six years now and she just keeps getting worse and worse and worse. No one can help because no one knows what it is. (But they know a lot of things it's not.) At various stages, various doctors have called it RA, Fibromyalgia, Lupus, and any number of other obscure things I've never heard of. But it's only a matetr of time before some other doctor says, "No, it's definitely not ____________. Has she been tested for ___________?"

quote:

I do believe that you will find, many here have overcome many illness and physical problems that are similar.

Based on what many doctors have said ("I've never seen anything like this."), I kind of doubt that.

quote:

Your frustration is apparent and I do understand, but you are walking on thin ice. Try to hear what we are saying because you are placing yourself in danger of losing far too much, even if it is only respect.

Yes, I do hear. The messages have gotten through. (At least those that were rooted in compassion.) Thank you.

quote:

I would be willing to speak with you in email at least once to maybe direct you to some links that would provide some support for you. Not professional, but other men that are in the same place you may be in. I think that could assist you far more than some spice on the side. You aren't the only one and few unless they are unstable will fall for the wife can't do it, so lets keep this on the down-low... most often, the type of person that would be willing to do so, end up spilling the beans because they didn't have much honor in the first place. Think man... and not from a needy or horny place, but a place of worth and determination to do the right thing and sort this out the right way. The right way is the way where no one is so hurt that it leaves a life wound.

Thank you, Yes, please. I would really appreciate knowing of any support group, etc.

(in reply to Lockit)

RE: Not your average intro... - 10/28/2010 2:47:38 PM

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Joined: 9/1/2008
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You know...without doubt, coming to her with your needs as a human being is going to be hard. There may be tears, there may be tension between you for a minute, an hour, a week, or a month or more...but you did not cause this situation and you are caught up in its consequences possibly just as much as she is. What is hardest during these times, is that we have to trust that person that we married to actually -be- the person that we married - all the love all the desire and commitment that we had in that one moment comes down to -this- moment...trust between each other.

It may be that she will be wonderful about it, it may be that she will say no fucking way...but at least you will have tried to be honorable to her. Either answer, you have a lot of thinking to do still. A "yes" would mean that you are going to need to be doubly vigilant in your support of her and your assurances. Be totally transparent. Explore polyamory options and open marriages and share all that with her.

If you get a no or a no fucking way...then you have more thinking to do. She swore a vow to you as well and no one can rightfully expect a person to have to live without sexual release for the rest of their lives unless they specifically signed up for that - you are not a priest. You deserve as much honor from her and she does from you. That may lead you down other less positive decision points, but I still think that if you can do all this with integrity, you come out of it a much better and stronger person - even though it may be terribly painful to go through. Risks...either way...

But no one said life was without risks...and if you are going to take risks, take ones that leave you better and stronger and not feeling the cad in your own life.

Good luck to both of you.

_____________________________

I am on a journey of authenticity and self.

(in reply to KingBee68)

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