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RE: cooth, uncooth whose to say? - 11/17/2010 7:07:38 PM

MoxieRed

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quote:

ORIGINAL: WolfyMontgomery

Edited to add: Heck, you tell you know a person who has never told truth, never been honest, and is still living a wonderful, loving life with people who care about him, and I'll show you how to make the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch.
Then again, I suppose you could probably just show me a politician or a CEO or something... but they don't seem very loved to me, just rich as fuck and can buy happiness. So those don't count.

You... I love you. All of what you write, but especially this.

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RE: cooth, uncooth whose to say? - 11/17/2010 7:26:24 PM

angelikaJ

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

Kinda scratching my head with littlewonder at the "Dinner Dates = Fail" bit.

Cuz this is the coolest relationship I've been in after that dinner date. ;)

It seems he thinks outside the box.

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RE: cooth, uncooth whose to say? - 11/17/2010 7:40:24 PM

daintydimples

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Sorry, I did not take the time to read all posts.

To the OP: It has been suggested that there is something wrong in your "dating" game plan. and I agree.

I am going to suggest that for all male "doms" you meet online, you meet as friends only, ASAP. You should never, under any circumstances, have a dom/sub relationship with someone you have never met.

Meet as friends, and keep them as friends, until they prove BY THEIR ACTIONS they have the potential to be more. Then, go slow.

I know you want a dom and want to rush this. Don't. Good things take time.

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RE: cooth, uncooth whose to say? - 11/17/2010 9:29:45 PM

DMFParadox

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

Kinda scratching my head with littlewonder at the "Dinner Dates = Fail" bit.

Cuz this is the coolest relationship I've been in after that dinner date. ;)

Ok, re the dinner date comments -

Have I just met this girl somewhere, asked for her phone number, calling her to come over? No dinner date.

Is she someone I see regularly, but never socially? No dinner date. Beach; walk in the park; coffee; grab a beer at the bar. No food.

Is she a co-worker? Dinner. And I'll flirt outrageously but I probably won't go anywhere with it; just setting things up as friends so that if one of us ever leaves the job, she'll call me a minute or two later. ^_^

Is she in the 'friends' circle, but I've met her/seen her around at places? Sure, dinner sounds fine.

Have we just spent 20+ minutes at a coffee shop, on the beach, playing pool, and feel munchy? No dinner. Maybe. Usually I part ways with the girl at this point, saying 'I had a great time but need to meet some friends.' Often, that's exactly why I'm leaving. Sometimes, it's just a graceful lie to tell instead of 'I don't feel comfortable letting you get that comfortable with me yet." But sometimes, if I'm feeling it, I'll go ahead and do dinner with her. I've been glad to do this and regretted doing this in equal parts, so it's still a coin toss for me.

Have I got a group of friends hanging out and I invite the new girl? Sometimes, dinner.

Do I want sex that night? Probably no dinner. Full stomach sometimes = sleepy and non-horny. (for both me and the girl). Afterwards, hell yes. I love a late night post-coital fuelup. Some good memories there.

USUALLY, in the context of something like what happened with the OP and what Mikey was spewing about, this means no 'dinner date'. Not for me. But it's conditional.

Last but not least, no MOVIES either. I love movies. But I'll never take a new date to them, unless I've got a few other friends along for the ride, in which case the group dynamic makes it a much more comfortable venue.

Is this making any sense to you people, or am I still pissing in the wind?

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RE: cooth, uncooth whose to say? - 11/17/2010 9:34:03 PM

DMFParadox

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze

I think "bitch shield" is another term invented by some men so their egos are not too bruised, you know they couldn't get through to her (read successfully manage to manipulate her to sleep with them) must have been the "bitch shield" - could be that they're just plain boring, unattractive or have BO and/or halitosis...

Nope. We use the term because it's instantly recognizable for what it is, at least by those who've experienced it. Say 'bitch shield' and even if he's never heard it before, a guy will not infrequently know what you're talking about. No need for bruised egos to recognize common sense, even if the result ends up bruising your ego.

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RE: cooth, uncooth whose to say? - 11/17/2010 9:40:17 PM

WolfyMontgomery

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Fast reply not directed at anyone, but totally in reference to all the "Bitch Shield" talk.

I have a Bitch Shield! ...if you count shutting down like a terrified puppy and running into the bathroom to hide as being a bitch ;D

If someone doesn't take a friendly "No thanks" as an answer the first time, I'm scampering as far away from them as possible, finding distractions, trying to hide behind prettier girls so that the guy might notice them and no longer be interested in me, because I've always found it *very* hard to say no - not because I secretly wanted it, but because I didn't want to piss them off.

Fortunately, now if I get in that situation, my bitch shield tends to be, "Sorry, I'm taken. But you can ask that really tall strong looking guy over there if you can fuck his girlfriend. He'll either be flattered or he'll deck you - it's a fifty-fifty chance." and then smile sweetly.

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RE: cooth, uncooth whose to say? - 11/17/2010 9:42:24 PM

DMFParadox

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CaringandReal
(Reads link) The descriptions are interesting and have spawned a very entertaining side tangent in this thread but I still don't know what a bitch shield sounds or looks like. Is it the thing that used to be called "the silent treatment" where the woman just ignores you and pretends like you don't exist or answer flatly without interest? Is it active sarcasm or saying mean things in response to your comments to her?

All of the above.

But it also refers to the phenomena where a woman will use tactics that test a man's willingness to be taken for a ride. "For example, a woman might suddenly change threads and start talking about sex very explicitly, to test (the man)..."

This has happened to me numerous times. I remember one time where I was sitting at a table with 3 girls and one of the ones I wasn't talking to started talking about how she'd never orgasmed, but still enjoyed sex - Right out of the blue! I was pretty young, and it caught my attention, so I asked her what she enjoyed about it. Silence. And, immediately the temperature at the table chilled to -40 degrees, from ALL of the girls. A few seconds later one of the girls got up and walked away. It was surreal.

That, too, is part of the 'bitch shield'. It's less about the bitchiness, and more about the shield - and its absolutely baffling behavior to men who can't figure out wtf is going on, like I couldn't all those years ago with that table full of girls. Or with other similar examples; it's not just that one, it's a trend.

< Message edited by DMFParadox -- 11/17/2010 9:43:40 PM >

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RE: cooth, uncooth whose to say? - 11/17/2010 9:49:17 PM

DMFParadox

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quote:

ORIGINAL: WolfyMontgomery
I have a Bitch Shield! ...if you count shutting down like a terrified puppy and running into the bathroom to hide as being a bitch ;D

No. Completely different phenomena.

Have you ever sat at the head of the table, had total silence when you talk, been uncomfortable with people's deference towards you, for weeks, months, years on end? Been in a crowd of pretty girls at a bar, and finding yourself in a bubble, with like 2 feet around everyone in your group? Had multiple men at the same time hovering around you, trying to think of what to say? If so, you've been giving off a bitch shield; otherwise, they wouldn't have hovered. Have you ever shut down a guy accidentally - not on purpose, not because you're angry, but it just slipped out of your mouth, known it, watched him fumble and gotten pissed, let him walk away? Bitch shield. If not, you've never needed one, so don't stress it. Doesn't apply to you.

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RE: cooth, uncooth whose to say? - 11/17/2010 10:01:44 PM

NuevaVida

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DMFParadox

Is this making any sense to you people, or am I still pissing in the wind?

No.

Unless I'm misunderstanding what you mean by "Fail." Fail to create a relationship? Or fail to "score," somehow?

The things you're saying though, seem like contrived acts to meet a particular goal.

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RE: cooth, uncooth whose to say? - 11/17/2010 10:07:14 PM

DMFParadox

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quote:

WolfyMontgomery
Then again, I suppose you could probably just show me a politician or a CEO or something... but they don't seem very loved to me, just rich as fuck and can buy happiness. So those don't count.

Wish they didn't count, but they do. Frequently, they are loved, and it's not just the money; they're loved because of who they are, even though you're holding your nose. And it starts young: Science Daily: Link Between Lying And Popularity
Science Daily: Popular Kids Make More When They Grow Up

But this is key, and probably the #1 reason why folks get so dramatic about hating liars: the first rule of lying is, never get caught. The corollary is, never convict yourself. Which all leads to, who could possibly want to listen to a liar who admits what he does? Then people would have to get all self-aware of their own behaviors and crap, it's like a magician revealing the trick... "Oh, I could never fall for that! And you're a cad for being so... so... human!" He should STFU and get back to business, so that everybody else can remain comfortably homeostatic. Amirite?

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RE: cooth, uncooth whose to say? - 11/17/2010 10:09:20 PM

DMFParadox

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

quote:

ORIGINAL: DMFParadox

Is this making any sense to you people, or am I still pissing in the wind?

No.

Unless I'm misunderstanding what you mean by "Fail." Fail to create a relationship? Or fail to "score," somehow?

The things you're saying though, seem like contrived acts to meet a particular goal.

Contrived acts to meet a goal... this is a bad thing? Someone alert the business world! They're so wrong! We should all live in the forest and dance around campfires spontaneously.

Wait... did that guy over there plan the campfire? NOOOOOOO shoot him! MURDERATE HIM

Edited to add: Both. Fail at both.

New girl gets full, sleepy, tired, disjointed conversation. Leaves. Doesn't return calls. Is she embarrassed? Is she reconsidering? Did she get too 'hot' before dinner, and is scared off by the reaction you give in her? Did you chew with your mouth open, spray, choke, any one of the thousand things you can do that's senseless and stupid but hits the 'off' button in that critical first-impression 'date night' phase?

Conversation can be more difficult and contrived over food. You'll talk about the food, not things that get you hot and interested. You'll fumble. You (you the girl) will get insecure over how you look.

It's a disaster waiting to happen.

Now, if there's a group there, it's much, much better. Friends vibe off each other, carry the conversation while you're chewing, give the guy a legitimate reason to be distant and mysterious without triggering the bailout switch.

But on a first date? Hell no. It's just too much for the girl, normally. Fries her circuits. Keep it short, interesting, dynamic, hints of good things to come, and leave, unless it's clear that she'll go the distance with you that night. Dinner also has too much finality - what if your first impression wasn't that great? If it was a dinner, it's pretty much a done deal; move on. If it's a walk on the beach, you have a few more graceful exits you can choose from, to come back later without too much of a bad smell. And there's less things you have to get wrong. Plus, every guy does dinner. Who wants that? Be unique. Be memorable. If you're the 30th dinner date she's had in the past year, it's just not going to stick in her mind as much no matter how pretty and charming you are.

Seriously, this topic is retarded. I'm done. You go ahead and think what you want to about dinner dates, and I'll keep going on walks with the girls instead, and we can fucking just not speak of it again please. I shouldn't have raised that point, it's like teaching a room full of geriatrics why the kids think Eminem is so cool. Sheesh.

< Message edited by DMFParadox -- 11/17/2010 10:51:07 PM >

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RE: cooth, uncooth whose to say? - 11/17/2010 10:16:00 PM

DMFParadox

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Another thing that bothers me about women.

Men plan to seduce you.

I'll say it again: Men plan to seduce you.

They think of where to take you.

What to say to you.

What not to say to you.

All with the goal of eventually fucking you senseless. Or hoping you'll decide to pull the trigger for them. Conscious, unconscious, whatever... some guys will deny this to their dying breath, some of them will even be telling the truth. Damn few of them, though.

Even high-value men do this. Even if you're throwing yourself at them, once they decide they're willing to catch you, they mentally plot the course from a)do something to b)??? to c)sex.

Sometimes, sometimes, that 'spontaneous moment' actually is spontaneous.

More often, it's practiced. Smoothly, clumsily, or an 'Oh, that's cool! I should remember that...' whatever. It's been planned and set aside somewhere in the man's mind, to use on this occasion.

Usually, you're being played. In a nice way. Even in the first five seconds of talking to the man. Fucking ENJOY it. Stop being schizophrenic about the topic.

Signing off, for now.

< Message edited by DMFParadox -- 11/17/2010 10:22:00 PM >

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RE: cooth, uncooth whose to say? - 11/17/2010 10:21:16 PM

NuevaVida

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DMFParadox

quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

quote:

ORIGINAL: DMFParadox

Is this making any sense to you people, or am I still pissing in the wind?

No.

Unless I'm misunderstanding what you mean by "Fail." Fail to create a relationship? Or fail to "score," somehow?

The things you're saying though, seem like contrived acts to meet a particular goal.

Contrived acts to meet a goal... this is a bad thing? Someone alert the business world! They're so wrong! We should all live in the forest and dance around campfires spontaneously.

Wait... did that guy over there plan the campfire? NOOOOOOO shoot him! MURDERATE HIM

Well you didn't answer my question.

And yes, contrived tends to not be honest. Many dictionaries define it as "false or artificial" and that is how I meant it when I said it. And I prefer to deal in honesty. Particularly with the people I'm intimate with.

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RE: cooth, uncooth whose to say? - 11/17/2010 10:42:21 PM

Elisabella

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Second, you're making the same assumption that most people do - that women are open to being openly seduced. Sometimes, they are. But most times, the act itself will scare them into saying no, even when they want to say yes. Then, they'll come up with fifty billion reasons why they said no; but the reasons are b.s. The real reason is that you showed your hand too soon.

Exactly.

I'd much rather have a guy try to seduce me than bluntly ask "do you want to have sex" - it's like guys when I was younger who would say "Do you mind if I kiss you" and the answer was always, yes I mind, because it was so awkward.

Guys are going to try something, and girls can either encourage them or shut them down. The real test of a man's character is not whether he tries something at all, but how he reacts to you saying stop or slow down.

Though I will say in response to the OP, grabbing a girl's breasts before you've even kissed is pretty gauche.

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RE: cooth, uncooth whose to say? - 11/17/2010 10:57:53 PM

littlewonder

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DMFParadox

quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

Kinda scratching my head with littlewonder at the "Dinner Dates = Fail" bit.

Cuz this is the coolest relationship I've been in after that dinner date. ;)

Ok, re the dinner date comments -

Have I just met this girl somewhere, asked for her phone number, calling her to come over? No dinner date.

Is she someone I see regularly, but never socially? No dinner date. Beach; walk in the park; coffee; grab a beer at the bar. No food.

Is she a co-worker? Dinner. And I'll flirt outrageously but I probably won't go anywhere with it; just setting things up as friends so that if one of us ever leaves the job, she'll call me a minute or two later. ^_^

Is she in the 'friends' circle, but I've met her/seen her around at places? Sure, dinner sounds fine.

Have we just spent 20+ minutes at a coffee shop, on the beach, playing pool, and feel munchy? No dinner. Maybe. Usually I part ways with the girl at this point, saying 'I had a great time but need to meet some friends.' Often, that's exactly why I'm leaving. Sometimes, it's just a graceful lie to tell instead of 'I don't feel comfortable letting you get that comfortable with me yet." But sometimes, if I'm feeling it, I'll go ahead and do dinner with her. I've been glad to do this and regretted doing this in equal parts, so it's still a coin toss for me.

Have I got a group of friends hanging out and I invite the new girl? Sometimes, dinner.

Do I want sex that night? Probably no dinner. Full stomach sometimes = sleepy and non-horny. (for both me and the girl). Afterwards, hell yes. I love a late night post-coital fuelup. Some good memories there.

USUALLY, in the context of something like what happened with the OP and what Mikey was spewing about, this means no 'dinner date'. Not for me. But it's conditional.

Last but not least, no MOVIES either. I love movies. But I'll never take a new date to them, unless I've got a few other friends along for the ride, in which case the group dynamic makes it a much more comfortable venue.

Is this making any sense to you people, or am I still pissing in the wind?

Wow...you really make things complicated!

Geez....when I used to be single I would just talk to men and let it go wherever the cards may fall...dinner, walk in the park, coffee...whatever we felt like doing. There was no testing, no thinking he may be taking me for a ride, that I had to somehow deduce something out of him, etc...

Sounds like just trying to get to know you would be a chore.

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RE: cooth, uncooth whose to say? - 11/17/2010 11:09:36 PM

GreedyTop

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women know within the first few seconds if they are gonna have sex with a guy or not. SOMETIMES, the guy does something that may alter the initial NO FRIGGIN way..

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RE: cooth, uncooth whose to say? - 11/17/2010 11:20:06 PM

Elisabella

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ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

~FR~..

women know within the first few seconds if they are gonna have sex with a guy or not. SOMETIMES, the guy does something that may alter the initial NO FRIGGIN way..

I can't speak for 'women' as a whole but that's definitely not true for me. A lot of times I know right away that I would never have sex with a guy, but as far as the opposite, no...it usually takes a bit of time before I know if I'm willing to share the most intimate act with him.

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RE: cooth, uncooth whose to say? - 11/18/2010 1:43:04 AM

GreedyTop

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quote:

women know within the first few seconds if they are gonna have sex with a guy or not.

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RE: cooth, uncooth whose to say? - 11/18/2010 3:01:21 AM

Elisabella

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Right, I don't know if I'd have sex with him or not, the only time I know is if he's so disgusting it's an absolute no.

Most guys though I couldn't say either way until he shows me he's the sort of person I want to sleep with. I don't think I've ever met a guy where I knew in a few seconds I wanted to sleep with him. Or even a few days.

< Message edited by Elisabella -- 11/18/2010 3:05:47 AM >

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RE: cooth, uncooth whose to say? - 11/18/2010 4:05:33 AM

CaringandReal

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DMFParadox

quote:

ORIGINAL: CaringandReal
(Reads link) The descriptions are interesting and have spawned a very entertaining side tangent in this thread but I still don't know what a bitch shield sounds or looks like. Is it the thing that used to be called "the silent treatment" where the woman just ignores you and pretends like you don't exist or answer flatly without interest? Is it active sarcasm or saying mean things in response to your comments to her?

All of the above.

But it also refers to the phenomena where a woman will use tactics that test a man's willingness to be taken for a ride. "For example, a woman might suddenly change threads and start talking about sex very explicitly, to test (the man)..."

This has happened to me numerous times. I remember one time where I was sitting at a table with 3 girls and one of the ones I wasn't talking to started talking about how she'd never orgasmed, but still enjoyed sex - Right out of the blue! I was pretty young, and it caught my attention, so I asked her what she enjoyed about it. Silence. And, immediately the temperature at the table chilled to -40 degrees, from ALL of the girls. A few seconds later one of the girls got up and walked away. It was surreal.

That, too, is part of the 'bitch shield'. It's less about the bitchiness, and more about the shield - and its absolutely baffling behavior to men who can't figure out wtf is going on, like I couldn't all those years ago with that table full of girls. Or with other similar examples; it's not just that one, it's a trend.

Gotcha. I know exactly what you're talking about now.

I've been out of the dating scene for quite a while, obviously. Even when I was of the age that relishes enjoys going out to bars or clubs, I was usually in some sort of permanent or semi-permanent relationship. I tend to fall into them and not fall out for a very long time. I liked going out now and then for drinking or dancing, sometimes with a partner, sometimes not. If I was alone, I danced alone, and I discouraged men, not becuase I wanted to test them, but because I was involved with someone else and loyal to them.

What would you do now, if that situation with the three girls were repeated? I think if I were a guy who knew about the bitch-test phenom., I'd give her an "I can't believe what I'm hearing" look, say, "Uh...Ok...thanks for sharing that" in a dubious tone, then turn back to the girl I was talking to.

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