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RE: Where is God ? - 12/11/2010 10:44:21 AM   
SleazeMerchant


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quote:

ORIGINAL: lickenforyou

I said that scientist don't believe in the supernatural, they don't



I wouldn't say that, I would say that they shouldn't believe in it if they are basing their beliefs on science, because science only deals with the natural, not the supernatural. I know a few scientists that are religious.

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RE: Where is God ? - 12/11/2010 10:48:29 AM   
SleazeMerchant


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

Scrupulously faithful or exact; strict.


Thank you for proving my point.


*rolls eyes* Wrong. That does not prove your point. It doesn't prove that most atheists are religious in their denial of any spirituality. Maybe a lot do deny it, but not because they are Scrupulously faithful or exact; strict, its because you are wrong.

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RE: Where is God ? - 12/11/2010 10:51:32 AM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SleazeMerchant


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

Scrupulously faithful or exact; strict.


Thank you for proving my point.


*rolls eyes* Wrong. That does not prove your point. It doesn't prove that most atheists are religious in their denial of any spirituality. Maybe a lot do deny it, but not because they are Scrupulously faithful or exact; strict, its because you are wrong.


~scoops up your eyeballs from the floor, blowing them off before returning them to you



quote:

My point is that they are religious in their denial of any spirituality.


THAT is the point you proved. Gesh, you really did get your panties in a wad, didnt you.

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RE: Where is God ? - 12/11/2010 10:53:37 AM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: lickenforyou

*bold text done by me*

And here's the part you didn't bold...

which reveals an intelligence of such superiority that, compared with it, all the systematic thinking and acting of human beings is an utterly insignificant reflection.

K.





< Message edited by Kirata -- 12/11/2010 10:54:54 AM >

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RE: Where is God ? - 12/11/2010 10:57:39 AM   
SleazeMerchant


Posts: 37
Joined: 9/28/2009
Status: offline 		Ok, we've been over this one before: NO, I did not prove that statement.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 165
RE: Where is God ? - 12/11/2010 11:00:39 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		For a group of people who are always searching for answers, and still coming up with new answers for old questions they thought they had the answers to before, a scientist who adamantly disbelieves in spirituality is religious in their denial of spirituality. IF they had all the answers, i could agree with them. But they contradict even their own answers.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
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Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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RE: Where is God ? - 12/11/2010 11:02:58 AM   
RCdc


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SleazeMerchant
See that part in bold, agnostic means you dont know, which means that you are infact an atheist because you can not be a theist and be agnostic, because theism requires a belief in a god, but atheism is the lack of a belief in any gods.


Agnostic doesn't = atheist.


...And you did

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Profile   Post #: 167
RE: Where is God ? - 12/11/2010 11:09:34 AM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SleazeMerchant

agnostic means you dont know, which means that you are infact an atheist because you can not be a theist and be agnostic

The word "agnostic" is usually used in the sense of not knowing or being undecided, that's true. But it actually means to hold the view that the ultimate cause and nature of reality is unknowable. And in either case, it's not the same as being an atheist (assuming we're speaking English, of course).

K.






< Message edited by Kirata -- 12/11/2010 11:10:42 AM >

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RE: Where is God ? - 12/11/2010 11:11:23 AM   
ThatDamnedPanda


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: SleazeMerchant

agnostic means you dont know, which means that you are infact an atheist because you can not be a theist and be agnostic

The word "agnostic" is usually used in the sense of not knowing or being undecided, that's true. But it actually means to hold the view that the ultimate cause and nature of reality is unknowable. In either case, it's not the same as being an atheist (assuming we're speaking English, of course).

K.







That's a great explanation. Didn't you major in theology at one point, or am I remembering that wrong?


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Profile   Post #: 169
RE: Where is God ? - 12/11/2010 11:13:44 AM   
SleazeMerchant


Posts: 37
Joined: 9/28/2009
Status: offline 		Sigh. Do you even know how science works? From what you just said it sounds like you've got no idea at all, yet I'm sure you are going to tell me that I'm the one that doesn't understand.

It's inaccurate to say that science comes up with new answers to old questions that we thought we already knew the answer to, because it implies that we were totally wrong. What actually happens is that theories are refined in light of new evidence or new ideas, based on evidence that is being collected and analysed all the time. The explanations that science gives are altered to fit the know facts as best as it can. Unlike religion that will not alter anything about itself, except when it is beyond obvious and they are being laughed at that they still have not accepted reality. Most scientists with a disbelief in spirituality disbelieve in it because there is no good evidence for it. I'm sorry if reality doesn't agree with you, but that does not make a disbelief in spirituality 'religious'.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
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RE: Where is God ? - 12/11/2010 11:18:42 AM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SleazeMerchant

And an appeal to authority is a logical fallacy; smart or not, people can be wrong and people can make mistakes. Huge mistakes. Take the cosmological constant Einstein incorporated into his model of general relativity. He made a huge mistake in doing that, and why? Because he didn't like that his theory said that the universe should be expanding, so he made it so it said that it didn't.

*shrugs*


quote:

It's inaccurate to say that science comes up with new answers to old questions that we thought we already knew the answer to, because it implies that we were totally wrong.


Wait, wasnt that what you said about Einstein?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to SleazeMerchant)
Profile   Post #: 171
RE: Where is God ? - 12/11/2010 11:24:56 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SleazeMerchant
I'm sorry if reality doesn't agree with you, but that does not make a disbelief in spirituality 'religious'.


Except when it's a simile.

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love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

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Profile   Post #: 172
RE: Where is God ? - 12/11/2010 11:25:46 AM   
SleazeMerchant


Posts: 37
Joined: 9/28/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: SleazeMerchant

agnostic means you dont know, which means that you are infact an atheist because you can not be a theist and be agnostic

The word "agnostic" is usually used in the sense of not knowing or being undecided, that's true. But it actually means to hold the view that the ultimate cause and nature of reality is unknowable. And in either case, it's not the same as being an atheist (assuming we're speaking English, of course).

K.

Agnostic
1.
a. One who believes that it is impossible to know whether there is a God.
b. One who is skeptical about the existence of God but does not profess true atheism.
2. One who is doubtful or noncommittal about something.
adj.
1. Relating to or being an agnostic.
2. Doubtful or noncommittal

It is not usually used in the sense that you claim, maybe thats how you usuaully use it, but thats wrong. If you don't know that a god exists, I would find it hard to believe that you believed there was a god, which would mean that you are an atheist if you lack a belief in a god, you dont have to say that one doesn't exist to be an atheist. But yes, they are different, a/gnostacism adresses knowledge, and a/theism adresses the belief.

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 173
RE: Where is God ? - 12/11/2010 11:29:53 AM   
SleazeMerchant


Posts: 37
Joined: 9/28/2009
Status: offline 		Einstein was not completely wrong with his cosmological constant. When Hubble found out that the universe was expanding, it turned out there is still a cosmological constant but it is much smaller than what Einstein orginally thought, because the universe was actually expanding, but at the time, observations and calculations suggested it wasn't. Thats what I mean when I say that the theories and models are refined in light of new evidence.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 174
RE: Where is God ? - 12/11/2010 11:30:18 AM   
Kirata


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Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

That's a great explanation. Didn't you major in theology at one point, or am I remembering that wrong?

Actually, my academic background is in English and Psychology (clinical). But with respect to the latter, my special area of interest has been the study of consciousness, an endeavor that continues and in which I was occupied more or less full time for about twenty years of my life academically, professionally, and personally.

It is possible that I may have studied a little theology during that time.

K.

(in reply to ThatDamnedPanda)
Profile   Post #: 175
RE: Where is God ? - 12/11/2010 11:35:12 AM   
Kirata


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Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SleazeMerchant

maybe thats how you usuaully use it, but thats wrong.

ag·nos·tic   /ægˈnɒstɪk/

1. a person who holds that the existence of the ultimate cause, as god, and the essential nature of things are unknown and unknowable, or that human knowledge is limited to experience.
2. a person who denies or doubts the possibility of ultimate knowledge in some area of study.

K.

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Profile   Post #: 176
RE: Where is God ? - 12/11/2010 11:36:46 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SleazeMerchant

Einstein was not completely wrong with his cosmological constant. When Hubble found out that the universe was expanding, it turned out there is still a cosmological constant but it is much smaller than what Einstein orginally thought, because the universe was actually expanding, but at the time, observations and calculations suggested it wasn't. Thats what I mean when I say that the theories and models are refined in light of new evidence.


Ah so your answers change as much as theirs does. Your words are black and white. If you didnt say what you meant, then you are equally as wrong.

And, you again make my point. Scientists dont have all the answers. Their answers are evolving, changing, as more information is discovered. Until they have all the answers, shouldnt they also be searching for more than just the "discovery of the moment"?

I shall answer that for you. No one has all the answers. No one knows for sure. So scientists clind to their beliefs, and its often shown later that their beliefs were in error, or limited to their own limited knowledge.

Its amazing how i can incorporate science into my life, and my spirituality, without limiting either.

I see atheism as another limitation based upon limited knowledge. Im sure you can make the same argument for spirituality and religion.

Viva la difference

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to SleazeMerchant)
Profile   Post #: 177
RE: Where is God ? - 12/11/2010 11:54:09 AM   
SleazeMerchant


Posts: 37
Joined: 9/28/2009
Status: offline 		Look, I don't even know where to begin. Almost every sentence in your last post was wrong.

1) I never changed my answer. Feel free to point out where I changed my answer.

2) Scientists don't have all the answers, but they have a hell of a lot more answers than all of the religions combined and peoples spirituality put together. The anwers change and evolve because our knowledge and understanding of reality does. No matter how wrong science maybe at any one point in time, it's a google times more accurate than any religion or spirituality.

3) Do some research. We don't have the answers for everything, but there is a good unstanding of what is possible and what is not possible, and if you have some superior knowledge, why dont you write a scientific paper? Scientists do not "cling to their beliefs" because if they did, they wouldn't do research furthering our knowledge in things, they would just kick back and say don't worry, we've got it all worked out. I think when talking about limited knowledge, you should go and make yours less limited in this area.

4) Once again, if you think atheism is due to limited knowledge, why don't you get out there and educate people. I find it quite ironic that you say that atheism is due to limited knowledge, but the most educated people in the world are mostly atheist... Amazing how knowledge works. Oh and I also find it ironic that agnostics and athiests know more about religion than religious people.

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Profile   Post #: 178
RE: Where is God ? - 12/11/2010 11:55:10 AM   
SleazeMerchant


Posts: 37
Joined: 9/28/2009
Status: offline 		Where is that definition from?

EDIT: Ah, I didn't see that there was a link there. I don't agree with it, almost everywhere else does not include unknowable in the definition, and I dont think its acurate to say that people that identify themselves as an angostic say that the orgin of all things is unknown AND unknowable, I would say and/or.

< Message edited by SleazeMerchant -- 12/11/2010 12:02:35 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 179
RE: Where is God ? - 12/11/2010 11:58:00 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		You keep insiting people are wrong.

HOW do you know?

Do you have PROOF?

Scientific evidence that we are wrong?

Proof positive?

Or is it all based upon a lack of proof?

Lack of scientific evidence?

Or is it ego? Which is most likely the answer and typically why an atheists claims people are wrong.

quote:

4) Once again, if you think atheism is due to limited knowledge, why don't you get out there and educate people. I find it quite ironic that you say that atheism is due to limited knowledge, but the most educated people in the world are mostly atheist... Amazing how knowledge works. Oh and I also find it ironic that agnostics and athiests know more about religion than religious people.


Mostly? Hmmm... quite telling!

LOL

regardless, you are religious in your atheism and there is no longer a point to continue this discussion. especially in light of your backpeddaling about Einstein.

If you cant own your own words, there is no point in debating with you.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to SleazeMerchant)
Profile   Post #: 180
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