RE: When did being a gentleman suddenly become "a submissive thing"?

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RE: When did being a gentleman suddenly become "a ... - 12/10/2010 2:41:06 AM

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quote:

I'd go further though - (and someone else on this thread alluded to it - just can't find it now sorry!) - for me good manners adds to the whole experience, there's a lovely contrast between holding the door on the way into the restaurant, taking her coat, and pushing her seat in all in the mutual knowledge that later she'll be naked, bound, and dripping with...

*grumbles about teases.... I don't think that's very gentlemanly...

I love gentlemen. Love how they bring out the soft, girly side of me. They make me all warm and yummy... and then when they have lulled m- a gal into this soft, lovely, warm and yummy place, they just whisper, something simple and commanding, their breath warm on the skin just beneath the earlobe, with no doubt that it is exactly ... and .... they grab a... and ... the look in their eyes... and ... *sigh*...

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RE: When did being a gentleman suddenly become "a ... - 12/10/2010 3:20:32 AM

SpiritedRadiance

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I adore a gentleman, however not to the degree of ordering food for me.... I don't allow that simply because I prefer breathing... I have two allergies that a date might not remember the first few times we see each other and id rather not bite in and realize oh shit its hospital time....

However my last date to do that was kind enough to pay my er copay

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RE: When did being a gentleman suddenly become "a ... - 12/10/2010 6:19:09 AM

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That's funny. I thought of it being like this: I tell the guy, and then he tells the waiter. huh.

< Message edited by sunshinemiss -- 12/10/2010 6:31:05 AM >

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RE: When did being a gentleman suddenly become "a ... - 12/10/2010 7:00:45 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss

That's funny. I thought of it being like this: I tell the guy, and then he tells the waiter. huh.

That's the way we order. If I'm having difficulty deciding, I'll tell him which dishes intrigue me and he'll choose. We've also been together for 11 years, so he knows my quirks, allergies and tastes.

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RE: When did being a gentleman suddenly become "a ... - 12/10/2010 7:25:57 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

And I have to tell you that when you're very independent and self sufficient....having someone do these things for you spotlights that someone else is in control. I have to stand outside the car and wait for him to open the door or sit inside the car and wait for him to open the door. I can't tell you how hard that is sometimes.

I totally relate to this. So hard that I would forget sometimes, or just feel too uncomfortable to do it. Once, walking into a restaurant, I reached the door first. I opened it. He told me to let go of the door handle and stand there until the door closed (while still outside the door). I did. It closed. Then he opened it and said to go on into the restaurant now. Yeah, that definitely reminded me he is in control!

As for ordering in restaurants...He knows I have some food restrictions. Before the waiter arrives he'll ask me what I think looks good (in other words, what do I want), I'll tell him, and when the waiter comes, he orders it for me.

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RE: When did being a gentleman suddenly become "a ... - 12/10/2010 8:56:15 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

This is pretty much Master's view as well. He enjoys being a gentleman as much as he enjoys being a kinky sadist.

And I have to tell you that when you're very independent and self sufficient....having someone do these things for you spotlights that someone else is in control. I have to stand outside the car and wait for him to open the door or sit inside the car and wait for him to open the door. I can't tell you how hard that is sometimes.

Since I'm newer to this it took me some time to learn that and expand on it...
Yeah sometimes I do things because I want to, sometimes it's to let her know I am in controll.
Sometimes when there are guests over I'll see her start to move or get up to do something, I'll tell her "Stay, or sit (in a firm voice), I'll do that."
I know it's hard for her to give up that controll in front of other people, most people don't get my tone of voice and would think she has me trained. But she knows better.
The funny thing is if she expected and pushed to get these things from me I probably wouldn't do half of them.

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RE: When did being a gentleman suddenly become "a ... - 12/10/2010 7:10:31 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss

That's funny. I thought of it being like this: I tell the guy, and then he tells the waiter. huh.

And that is exactly what I meant when I mentioned it Sunshine-y one ;) He asks me first. Novel concept eh?

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RE: When did being a gentleman suddenly become "a ... - 12/10/2010 7:13:30 PM

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Glad to give you a giggle crazyml!

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RE: When did being a gentleman suddenly become "a ... - 12/11/2010 11:32:11 AM

Firebirdseeking

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I would never consider even speaking with a dominant, or anyone else for that matter, who did not have manners. I think its a total distortion to think that manners means submissive. My dominant/husband is French Canadian, and he is very polite and respectful, to everyone. The fact that he always treated me with respect, and did not try that "up front BS dominant thing" was what allowed us to talk for hours and hours each day until we met; until he moved here from Ontario and we began our life together. For me, respect is the foundation on any relationship, but especially a D/s one. Some peopl are very confused.

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RE: When did being a gentleman suddenly become "a ... - 12/11/2010 8:35:07 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MsSavra

Being a gentleman or not is not about Dom/sub, but about having class and style - or not.

Without going thru this whole thread.... this right here quote... said it all.

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RE: When did being a gentleman suddenly become "a ... - 12/11/2010 8:52:12 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SpiritedRadiance

I adore a gentleman, however not to the degree of ordering food for me.... I don't allow that simply because I prefer breathing... I have two allergies that a date might not remember the first few times we see each other and id rather not bite in and realize oh shit its hospital time....

However my last date to do that was kind enough to pay my er copay

This is why he asks me what I want before speaking to the waiter when he orders for me.

And why I'm allowed to pause him and provide information - in any circumstance - should the course of action he is about to take cause harm to the things he cares about. Like me!

Though sadly, for me, because of my dietary needs he often elects to simply have me order for myself. I strongly prefer it when he says "And the lady will have... " It just makes me feel all delicate and dainty. I think that if I were on a date with a dominant, he ordered for me and I politely said "Excuse me, we'll need X removed from the dish because I'm allergic", asking the waiter "Does it have X in it - I'm allergic" or "Actually, I'm allergic to this so I think I'll have Y instead" and they reacted badly, it'd be a dealbreaker.

Perhaps morbidly, I now almost wish I were allergic to various foods. Seeing a potential dominant reacting to that could be quite telling about our future together... *considers*

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(in reply to SpiritedRadiance)

RE: When did being a gentleman suddenly become "a ... - 12/12/2010 3:11:56 AM

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With the exception of a little stint in my teens just being pissed off at the world for no real reason, I've always been a gentleman, or at least gentlemanly (though anyone who calls me a gentleman and a scholar will hear me deny it vehemently until I go hoarse). Momma raised me right, to treat others as I'd like to be treated - wth the exception, of course, of those that like having me hurt on 'em.

It's so deeply ingrained that I react before consciously realizing that I'm moving to open the door for the old lady coming in, and moving down to NC hasn't done anything to persuade me to stop.

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RE: When did being a gentleman suddenly become "a ... - 12/12/2010 4:43:55 AM

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Don't bang your head against the wall. Just be who you are , and do what feels good to you.
I myself do not care what others might put thier label to,as in what is submissive or not . I know who and what I am , and I only care what my partner thinks of me , not others.
Be well, and enjoy

(in reply to LadyHibiscus)

RE: When did being a gentleman suddenly become "a ... - 12/12/2010 5:20:46 AM

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I believe being a man of manner (or woman for that matter) is mostly a question of respect..

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RE: When did being a gentleman suddenly become "a ... - 12/12/2010 5:24:51 AM

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I think those who confuse being courteous with being submissive might be the same folks who confuse machismo with confidence.

Masculinity is confidence.

Machismo is born in insecurity.

Some don't know the difference.

(in reply to Buzzzz)

RE: When did being a gentleman suddenly become "a ... - 12/12/2010 1:59:19 PM

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My brothers were raised to be gentlemen.
Just as my sisters and I were raised to be ladies.

I raised my son to be a gentleman.
Instilling values and morals in him.

Someone without manners is ignored by me.

Just the way I was raised.
So being a gentleman has nothing to do with submission.

(in reply to Hillwilliam)

RE: When did being a gentleman suddenly become "a ... - 12/12/2010 4:23:51 PM

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Of course, from another perspective, telling a dom they're doing it wrong has been used by many a sub who was trying to get spanked for rudeness.

(in reply to subinlife)

RE: When did being a gentleman suddenly become "a ... - 12/12/2010 5:20:46 PM

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That's a great way to reinforce rudeness, Michael!

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RE: When did being a gentleman suddenly become "a ... - 12/12/2010 7:21:16 PM

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~FR~

"The forbearing use of power does not only form a touchstone, but the manner in which an individual enjoys certain advantages over others is a test of a true gentleman." Robert E. Lee

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RE: When did being a gentleman suddenly become "a ... - 12/14/2010 3:10:04 AM

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I think there's been a paradigm shift where "dominant" has moved closer "abusive" or "sadistic" rather than a state of mind, which is the canonical definition. The "real dom"-"real sub" phenomenon has reared it's ugly head as many of these self-proclaimed submissives are more into masochism, per se, but S&M carries a negative overtone where D/s sounds more socially respectable or "politically correct."

Personally, I'm not about to change who I am or what I do based on fads or the conflation of the most fundamental descriptions of the "WIITWD" by the surge in the popularity of Kink in general that has been enabled by the Internet. Anyone can act like an asshole and laugh because they are hiding behind a screen. And the newly self-declared subs are easy targets for experienced male predators, who jump on them hard, and those first impressions are lasting.

It is also true that I am of the age of the "Old Guard" and my personal values are rooted there and the history of my generation. I accept that the heyday of the "Baby Boomers in BDSM" have passed, and Generation X now hold the reins and is doing as they please with no regard for tradition in many cases. In another 10-15 years the "Millennials" will be a serious social force to be reckoned with, and they are a socially cohesive generation that leans more toward tolerance and liberalism. But until then I expect anarchy and chaos will become the order of the day in our sub-culture, and only the strong will survive. Adapt or "die" is just the way life is in almost every aspect.

Nothing stays the same for very long in this post-modern world. My personal coping strategy is to "change adversity into advantage" because I can't stop the changes that are coming, and I'm not ready to give up yet. Youth and skill will never be a match for experience and treachery!

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